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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
 Posted - 03 May 2005 : 23:34:27
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Zandilar, one point re. the “non-aggressive hesitations” discussed between you and Ed.
Ed and I talked about this, too, and here’s my paraphrase of some of his comments:
In “fighting in the wild,” Caladnei has none. In the Court of Cormyr, feeling her way through the intrigues of an unfamiliar country, she’s uncertain (who’s friend? who’s foe?), and doesn’t want to do anything that will have implications for the entire Forest Kingdom for centuries to come. She doesn’t want to disappoint Alusair, Filfaeril, Laspeera, et al.
Alusair (in the Shadows scene) is trying to flog into a state of “Don’t stop to worry about our feelings or think about how you’ll be regarded: just ACT!”
In all matters of Realms characters primarily seen in fiction, things are complicated by what writers like Ed don’t have space to say, or that editors trim, or that don’t “fit” the pace and flow of the main storyline and so get left out by the writer. Ed’s always arguing from a viewpoint of “knowing” the characters better than what any Realms fan has seen (as seen in this thread during his War Wizards debate with Jerryd).
Myself, I’d like to see much more of Alusair and Caladnei, and Ed tells me There Are Plans. What he DOESN’T tell me is what they are (the poltroon!).
I’ll have to go and, ahem, “work” on him. 
love to all,
THO
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2005 : 00:19:01
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Hello, scribes. Well, what should I find in the old inbox but yet ANOTHER reply from Ed to Zandilar:
The attitude towards Alusair (the wanton slut) as opposed to Azoun IV (our rampant king, chuckle chuckle wink wink) is indeed holding the royal house to a different standard to the ‘decadent’ nobles (“wallowing in it, and each other” is a common Cormyrean saying, regarding the raffish behaviour, or at least reputation, of the nobility in general), but it’s not a negative attitude towards bastards (children born out of wedlock), or even towards females (Alusair can rut all she wants before becoming Regent and after Azoun V is on the throne, or if he dies and she becomes Queen, after she marries and produces ‘an heir and a spare’). The “good folk of Cormyr” (i.e. general public opinion) just doesn’t think a female who sleeps around is the right sort of person to be a good Regent.
Of course, her blades and the Purple Dragons she’s fought alongside judge her very differently, and already have as much or more personal loyalty towards her than they ever had towards her father. In my opinion, if Alusair produced two healthy children, in ‘untainted’ married circumstances, I think her strong sexual appetites would be accepted even if she then remained unmarried. However, we’ll have to see.
And yes, she does think she’s barren. Whether she really is or isn’t, I can’t tell you: yes, Vangey did something magical to prevent her bearing unwanted Obarskyr bastards, but whether or not his meddling was permanent, or still holds, remains mysterious. To everyone but him, heh-heh - - and no, he’s said nothing recently about it to Alusair. Just one more thing she’s wrestling with (because Caladnei insists she doesn’t know, and doesn’t know the right spells to try to find out without harming Alusair, both of them agree NO clergy can be consulted for fear of this becoming widespread knowledge, and for some reason Laspeera and Filfaeril refuse to discuss this matter at all, and have been able to murmur a reason why that’s ended all insisting on the part of both Alusair and Caladnei. Alaphondar may or may not know something, but he’s not talking either.
Ohh, Throne of the Dragon, there’s a lot of future Cormyr fiction that needs writing . . . :}
And yes, I’d said bisexuality IS fairly common, though the published Realms will probably never reflect that (remember, to folk IN THE REALMS, it’s not a big deal, not something to be pointed out and commented on), and yes, as you put it, “people don't have too many issues with trust when it comes to their partners.” Many folk in some lands, with the exceptions of cases where inheritance and lineage must be safeguarded, expect their adult partners to ‘sleep around,’ if said partners are so minded and their faith allows it (contraception is, however, widely practised, because unwanted young can be fatal in cases of severe climate, food shortages, warfare, and so on). In most places in the Realms, wanton public behaviour tends to occur at festivals or inside festhalls, not out on the streets “where you’ll scare the horses.” However, there are no Puritans in the Realms, nor anything like their attitudes except among certain senior celibate priests of particular faiths.
You ask: “Would magic in the Realms allow someone to change gender in such a way that they would be fertile?” Yes, but the incantation and casting of the spell has to be JUST right; most versions of the shape-changing magics are too ‘rough and ready.’ Most clerical magic concerned with such things is precise enough, and so are most elven magics. The majority of spells in current circulation among humans are not.
You asked: “But is holding them to higher expectations the same as holding them to the expectation of heterosexuality only? Have there ever been homosexual rulers of Cormyr?”
Answers: No, and yes, but not openly (exclusively homosexual, that is). As to whom . . . no, it’s not revelation time yet. (That thundering sound you hear is another NDA curtain falling.) :}
Oh, and by the way, Lady Zandilar: I do believe it’s high time I bowed respectfully to you. So . . . my knees are the creaking sound you’re now hearing.
So saith Ed. More and more interesting. However, there are OTHER sides to the Realms besides matters sexual, and Ed promises to deal with one of them next time.
love to all,
THO
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2005 : 01:44:04
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Wouldnt there be a mass epedemic of Sexually transmitted disease in the FR if a large number of people are sleeping around?
While this isnt a problem for those who can afford Remove disease spells (375 GP) I imagine only the Upper and Middle classes would be able to afford it. Wouldnt disease be running rampant amongst the Lower class?
Id say Iltharl was likely Cormyr's gay monarch. |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2005 : 02:24:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Wouldnt there be a mass epedemic of Sexually transmitted disease in the FR if a large number of people are sleeping around?
I am sure TSR did not allow these and I do not recall any official WotC saying such exist. If they do not no one can catch them. Also odds are the percentage of widely would be low. However someone more knowledgable would have to asnswer these two issues.
quote:
While this isnt a problem for those who can afford Remove disease spells (375 GP) I imagine only the Upper and Middle classes would be able to afford it. Wouldnt disease be running rampant amongst the Lower class?
Sould this be a problem various Paladins and Clerics would be providing healing for free or for some kind of promise commitment. Also there is the heal skill, psionics to deal with problems. Most milatary organizations would also have a health care service of some kind to keep troops and nearby cilivians healthy.
Edit: Deleted later post concerning Profession: Herbalist and low cost of perparations that could be obtained. Trying not to clutter thread up much with cross talk. Also Heal does not equal Herbalism, but if one wishes to discuss differences this in my opinion belong in another thread. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
Edited by - Kentinal on 06 May 2005 02:20:49 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2005 : 02:41:09
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| Also, there's likely certain herbal recipes and such in the Realms that would take care of small matters like that. We know that there's herbal concoctions in the Realms that don't have real-world analogs, so I'd imagine that certain ailments could be cured with a mixture of three leaves of this plant, that plant's taproot, a bit of mint, and some spring water... |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2005 : 06:01:10
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Indeed. I'm sure there are more than just a few sages who specialise in herbalist lore through the Realms, and that they place more faith in their own skills than any healing properties gained from the divine. They've likely spent years experimenting with different herbal breeds and concoctive mixes creating new and interesting uses for more common plants and herbs.
In fact, a good analogy can be seen during the period of the gods absence at the dawn of the Fifth Age on Krynn. Without the presence of divine gods to provide energy for priestly healing magics, many clerics and sages of herbal lore had to find new ways to apply the techniques of herbal curative lore to healing both minor, and in serious cases, major injury.
I've often used these examples to expand upon the basics of herbalist lore in the Realms, creating an entirely new conception for the place of herbalists in my campaigns.
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2005 : 06:12:12
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Unfortunately that doesnt really help when it comes to cost
a Potion of Remove disease costs more than a scroll of remove Disease (750gp)
So the cost factor is still a problem for the poor |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2005 : 06:20:54
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Not necessarily.
What is to prevent a particularly noble herbalist who is already financially stable from distributing curative herbal remedies for free among the poor? Maybe his family was ravaged by the same disease early in its history and he is now doing all he can to prevent it from spreading further.
Additionally, clerics of benevolent gods may initially offer healing magics for free if a large scale epidemic were to explode among the poorer populations of many cities in the Realms -- esspecially if these churches support, or actively assist, the ruling body of such locales in other capacities. These governments may expect the church to offer assistance in protecting the population. Of course, these benevolent clerics may then also expect that those they have now healed, in this case the poor members of the community, are indebted to the particular church that healed them.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 04 May 2005 06:23:51 |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2005 : 06:34:21
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Not necessarily.
What is to prevent a particularly noble herbalist who is already financially stable from distributing curative herbal remedies for free among the poor? Maybe his family was ravaged by the same disease early in its history and he is now doing all he can to prevent it from spreading further.
Additionally, clerics of benevolent gods may initially offer healing magics for free if a large scale epidemic were to explode among the poorer populations of many cities in the Realms -- esspecially if these churches support, or actively assist, the ruling body of such locales in other capacities. These governments may expect the church to offer assistance in protecting the population. Of course, these benevolent clerics may then also expect that those they have now healed, in this case the poor members of the community, are indebted to the particular church that healed them.
I dont think they'd get involved for a non fatal disease, if Faeruns answer to the Black Death was sweeping through Cormyr, then the benevolent churches present there would probably help out for nothing, the neutral gods might offer remove disease at a discount and any evil chruches will likely jack there prices up.
However (most) STDs arent fatal and any victim cured is likely going to catch it again (Remove disease gets rid of a disease it doesnt make you immune to it ie you can catch it again) |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2005 : 06:56:51
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Actually, I rather think now, that the neutral-aligned churches - while benevolent at the outset - would be the ones to expect something in return later, like being indebted to service the interests of the faith, from those they assisted against death from a fatal disease.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2005 : 11:33:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Unfortunately that doesnt really help when it comes to cost
a Potion of Remove disease costs more than a scroll of remove Disease (750gp)
So the cost factor is still a problem for the poor
I'm not talking about magical potions that cure anything, though. I'm speaking of naturally existing compounds that when combined in the correct porportions, would take care of that nasty rash but not your cough -- or vice versa. I'm thinking of stuff like cough drops: they aren't universal cure-alls, they take care of one thing and only one thing.
Cost wouldn't be as much of a factor, then. It would be comparable to the way modern, over-the-counter medicines are priced. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 04 May 2005 11:36:57 |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2005 : 13:55:51
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| Then in 3ed speak an FR Herbalist is really just an Expert iwith ranks in the Heal Skill. Which makes them rather unreliable as they have to make the diseases DC and depending on the disease they may only get one shot at curing |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2005 : 14:15:39
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Well met Ed,
In Elminster's Daughter you mentioned Noumea Cardellith's husband as needing to get an annulment to get remairried in his new faith, and in one of your recent answers you mention celibate priests. I was wondering what churches might have these particular rules in place, and if those strictures are faith wide, or only in place for the church in certain regions. For example, I have always thought that some monestaries of Ilmater might have oaths of celibacy, but not neccissarily every cleric or monk of Ilmater would be celibate.
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Beowulf
Learned Scribe
Canada
322 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2005 : 14:35:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Wouldnt there be a mass epedemic of Sexually transmitted disease in the FR if a large number of people are sleeping around?
Indeed. Especially in the cities, and especailly in the ghettos; thus Christianity's stance towards sexual adventure. But also, with all of that free love being passed around, what about a high number of pregnancies (birth control has existed for a very long time in our world too) and a parallel number of female deaths during child birth. The threat of child birth to the mother is probably the biggest reason for the great double standard regarding sex that we have in our society. Afterall, for the male it was and is a pleasurable act, easily evadable in a urban environement and espeically in the ghettoes, but for the female it was the number one cause of death in the ancient and not-so-ancient world.
Child birth was to females, what war was to males ... both necessary risks/sacrifices for the continued existence of the kindred or tribe. |
"Ill tempered the wretch, who laughs at everyone. He cannot recognize, as he should, that he is not without faults." the High One, Poetic Edda |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2005 : 15:09:03
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We Knights often discuss matters Realmsian in great detail with Ed, and as a result I can shed some light on this matter of diseases without contacting Ed.
First, remember always Ed’s caution on too closely comparing the Realms and our real world in medieval or Renaissance times. The Realms has three strong mitigating factors, several of which have been mentioned or alluded to by scribes already:
1. Herbalists with very effective (read: better than real-world) remedies.
2. Churches and rulers who forcibly administer treatments (to the faithful, to warriors in sworn royal service) to slow or prevent much disease spread.
3. The mingling of species. The mere fact that humans dwell in close proximity to, or even in sexual relationships with, elves, dwarves, halflings, gnomes, orcs, et al (and all of the half-breed races that have arisen) meant HUGE plagues in the past (look at the lore and you can see the hints and mentions), as germs spread . . . and presumably recent-day prevalence of resistance. Remember, the worst outbreaks of disease occur when ‘separate’ populations are suddenly esposed to ‘bugs’ they’ve never faced before. That happened a long time ago in the Realms, and we’re now dealing with “those left standing.”
4. Lifestyles in Faerûn are such that cleanliness among children at play is less than the modern real world (they get to play in stables, road-dust, and/or swamps or forest muck, the latter being far more endowed with beast droppings than anywhere in our wildlife-thinned-by-man modern real world), so they’re exposed to more as younglings, and build up personal resistance.
I hope this helps.
love to all,
THO
P.S. Beowulf, re. “Christianity's stance towards sexual adventure,” hast thou never heard of the Clink, in London? Just one of many hundreds of European city brothel districts run by, ahem, the Church? However, yes, they DID promote cleanliness among their staff whores.
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Octa
Learned Scribe
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2005 : 18:52:17
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| You are right about the differences between medievel and renaisance earth and Cormyr, because here there was a boys will be boys type of attitude towards bi-sexuality in men, and a certain openness about it whereas the same behavior in women would have to be secret and possibly result in being burned as a witch, so go Cormyr.... |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2005 : 06:00:17
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Well met, scribes. I bring Ed of the Greenwood’s answer to Rick Day, in the matter of moon elven eyes:
Yes, gold flecks in some. Why? No idea, not my doing; I suspect TSR designers were simply trying to make the elf subraces distinctive in a beautiful and ‘cool’ way.
As for food: my brother is a chef by profession, too. As anyone who’s been to GenCons for years, and seen me go from a 29-inch waist (GenCon 13; I presume I was even skinnier at the earlier ones, but if I ever knew my waist size back then, I’ve forgotten it) to a 44-inch waist (now) already knows, yes, I love food. Far too much.
These days, I eat simply and sparingly, with occasional splurges. Every few hours.
Ahem, so saith Ed, and he was joking about the last bit. A very healthy and small-portion eater these days, though at GenCons he admits he breaks training and stokes up every morning, just so he can last the long days through (and go to lunch and dinner with so many friends).
Enough of this talk; ’tis making me hungry!
To Bakra, Lord of the Outlying Thread, Ed sends greetings, thanks for the kind words, and to your request for 1000 pages: “You and me both! However, length is specified by contract, so I can’t. If I could, believe me I WOULD.”
Which should come as no surprise to anyone . . .
love to all,
THO
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Si
Acolyte
United Kingdom
18 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2005 : 08:50:33
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Sorry, Si, but the Watch and Guard of Waterdeep are currently NDA (something [cough] to do with Waterdeep products and web support appearing this summer, so you [cough] shouldn’t have to wait TOO long). Moreover, a BIG current NDA is going to trammel my pen when replying to you about the stalwarts of Cormyr<brevity snip>
Curses, the dread NDA strikes again, but at least you provided a glimmer of hope that the ban might be lifted after the next slew of Waterdeep products comes out.
many Thanks Ed, and to you Milady |
'Only the little people suffer at the hands of Justice; The creatures of power slide out from under with a wink and a grin.'
Quellcrist Falconer
Things I Should Have Learnt by Now |
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Zandilar
Learned Scribe
Australia
313 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2005 : 12:07:52
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Heya,
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Alusair (in the Shadows scene) is trying to flog into a state of “Don’t stop to worry about our feelings or think about how you’ll be regarded: just ACT!”
Ah, I understand now.  (I seem to be saying that and derivatives a lot lately. )
quote:
Hello, scribes. Well, what should I find in the old inbox but yet ANOTHER reply from Ed to Zandilar:
 Hmm... Maybe I should stay quiet for a while next time, that way other people get a chance at having their questions answered.
quote:
The attitude towards Alusair (the wanton slut) as opposed to Azoun IV (our rampant king, chuckle chuckle wink wink) is indeed holding the royal house to a different standard to the ‘decadent’ nobles (“wallowing in it, and each other” is a common Cormyrean saying, regarding the raffish behaviour, or at least reputation, of the nobility in general), but it’s not a negative attitude towards bastards (children born out of wedlock), or even towards females (Alusair can rut all she wants before becoming Regent and after Azoun V is on the throne, or if he dies and she becomes Queen, after she marries and produces ‘an heir and a spare’). The “good folk of Cormyr” (i.e. general public opinion) just doesn’t think a female who sleeps around is the right sort of person to be a good Regent.
I am not sure where this double standard might come from, because you've basically eliminated all the reasons why that might be. They don't have a problem with "bastards" (which is the major issue with a female who sleeps with lots of men - but it's not as if Alusair has even proven herself fertile... I am sure the general populace has been asking questions about her seeming lack of fertility by now - after all, no form of contraception is 100%... though this is the Realms we're talking about, so it might be foolproof), and they don't have a problem with Alusair because she's female, and finally they don't have a problem with a male in the same position being randy. So why else might this be? I'm scratching my head here, because try as I might I cannot see a good reason (aside from the two already eliminated)... Ah well, time to think about it a bit - maybe I'll think of something on my own that is just not obvious to me at the moment.
But this reminds me of something else. In all my recent readings of Cormyr, I found and re-read the Dragon Annual magazine article "After the Dragon"... In it, it basically says that Azoun at two points in his life vowed not to philander... I must admit that this took me by surprise, because it was not my impression that he "toned down" his wanderings in the least. The first time was after his marriage to Filfaeril in 1329 DR, and then again when he came to the throne in 1336 DR. So maybe the common people do have problems with a randy male in a position of authority...
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Of course, her blades and the Purple Dragons she’s fought alongside judge her very differently, and already have as much or more personal loyalty towards her than they ever had towards her father. In my opinion, if Alusair produced two healthy children, in ‘untainted’ married circumstances, I think her strong sexual appetites would be accepted even if she then remained unmarried. However, we’ll have to see.
I must admit that this paragraph is confusing. Are you saying she marries, has children, then the children's father dies or she divorces him and then she remains unmarried? Or are you saying she has children out of wedlock people are not likely as much as blink about it?
quote:
And yes, she does think she’s barren. Whether she really is or isn’t, I can’t tell you: yes, Vangey did something magical to prevent her bearing unwanted Obarskyr bastards, but whether or not his meddling was permanent, or still holds, remains mysterious. To everyone but him, heh-heh - - and no, he’s said nothing recently about it to Alusair. Just one more thing she’s wrestling with (because Caladnei insists she doesn’t know, and doesn’t know the right spells to try to find out without harming Alusair, both of them agree NO clergy can be consulted for fear of this becoming widespread knowledge, and for some reason Laspeera and Filfaeril refuse to discuss this matter at all, and have been able to murmur a reason why that’s ended all insisting on the part of both Alusair and Caladnei. Alaphondar may or may not know something, but he’s not talking either.
This is one thing that I know I'd seek out and kill someone for (if I found out about it, of course). Meddling with me without telling me the entire truth about it is something that would make me see red. I'm sure Alusair would probably also be as angry if she ever found out that she wasn't actually barren, but magically enspelled to be infertile. And that spell just wore off... and she's now pregnant with a child she wasn't expecting and probably doesn't really want. I don't think I'd really want to be Vangerdahast if this happened. 
Though I also find this very interesting in light of what you say a bit later about the fertility or lack of polymorph and similar spells. You mention that basically only divine magic has the power to make such a change a fertile one. Are you implying here that it takes a less divinely guided hand to meddle and make someone infertile? So a wizard or a sorcerer with the ability to alter their form could do so in such a way as to render themselves infertile?
quote:
Ohh, Throne of the Dragon, there’s a lot of future Cormyr fiction that needs writing . . . :}
I think the quote I'm thinking of here is... "So much to do, so little time!"
quote:
And yes, I’d said bisexuality IS fairly common, though the published Realms will probably never reflect that (remember, to folk IN THE REALMS, it’s not a big deal, not something to be pointed out and commented on), and yes, as you put it, “people don't have too many issues with trust when it comes to their partners.” Many folk in some lands, with the exceptions of cases where inheritance and lineage must be safeguarded, expect their adult partners to ‘sleep around,’ if said partners are so minded and their faith allows it (contraception is, however, widely practised, because unwanted young can be fatal in cases of severe climate, food shortages, warfare, and so on). In most places in the Realms, wanton public behaviour tends to occur at festivals or inside festhalls, not out on the streets “where you’ll scare the horses.” However, there are no Puritans in the Realms, nor anything like their attitudes except among certain senior celibate priests of particular faiths.
I kind of figured things would be (this) different (to Earth), mostly because of the religions of the Realms. There are none that are really, um... that puritan. I keep telling people that gods like Tyr or Torm wouldn't care if their faithful slept around (except if they had actually vowed an oath of fidelity to their husbands/wives, or did so behind their spouses backs), and would have no requirements of celibacy oaths (actually the god I most recently argued this about was Bahamut) - though such oaths wouldn't be actively discouraged either.
quote:
You ask: “Would magic in the Realms allow someone to change gender in such a way that they would be fertile?” Yes, but the incantation and casting of the spell has to be JUST right; most versions of the shape-changing magics are too ‘rough and ready.’ Most clerical magic concerned with such things is precise enough, and so are most elven magics. The majority of spells in current circulation among humans are not.
I wasn't under the impression that (short of miracle) clerics got a spell that could change their (or someone else's) shape. Does this mean they'd have to use Miracle or could they petition the deity to grant a spell that's not on the list (like a cleric version of polymorph any object). Could they "collaborate" with a wizard/sorcerer to alter the arcane spell enough (like casting particular blessings as the wizard/sorcerer cast their spell)? Would Wish or Limited Wish do the job? Wish is extremely potent, even if you must be extremely careful how you word it.
And would an elf casting Polymorph Any Object or Shapeshift be able to achieve the "fertility" requirement, when a human cannot? Bear in mind that these spells give the person so transformed all of the mundane abilities of the new form - so essentially what's implied by this is that somehow the reproductive capabilities of any creature are extraordinary, supernatural, or a spell like ability. However, Shapechange gives extraordinary, supernatural abilities (both attacks and qualities) as well. Shapechange, like the polymorph spells, also changes your type to match that of the form you're switching to.
Of course there's a lot of rules lawyering in there on my behalf, and the general rule is don't let the rules get in the way of a good plot or storyline - just be careful how you "break" the rules, lest people look and go "Hey, you don't need an intact body for True Resurrection, so how come Tanalasta can't be raised?!" (Aside: I would have much rather seen a proper "there's these rules of the kingdom that the member of the royal house (heirs/rulers) can't be resurrected" explantation than a "this is how these things work, just don't look at the spell descriptions" explanation (which works only for those not familiar with the rules system)... I'd've put it down to cuts made by editors, except the latter explanation is blatantly in the book and the former rates nary a mention anywhere that I've seen. I mean, if they can take blood and flesh to make clones of them, why not resurrect them?)
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You asked: “But is holding them to higher expectations the same as holding them to the expectation of heterosexuality only? Have there ever been homosexual rulers of Cormyr?”
Answers: No, and yes, but not openly (exclusively homosexual, that is). As to whom . . . no, it’s not revelation time yet. (That thundering sound you hear is another NDA curtain falling.) :}
Blah!  How far into the future do these NDAs stretch anyway? 
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Oh, and by the way, Lady Zandilar: I do believe it’s high time I bowed respectfully to you. So . . . my knees are the creaking sound you’re now hearing.
 *curtseys in return* *tries not to stumble and trip over her own feet*
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So saith Ed. More and more interesting. However, there are OTHER sides to the Realms besides matters sexual, and Ed promises to deal with one of them next time.
Good plan. *settles back to watch and read* |
Zandilar
~amor vincit omnia~
~audaces fortuna iuvat~
As the spell ends, you look up into the sky to see the sun blazing overhead like noon in a desert. Then something else in the sky catches your attention. Turning your gaze, you see a tawny furred kitten bounding across the sky towards the new sun. Her eyes glint a mischevious green as she pounces on it as if it were nothing but a colossal ball of golden yarn. With quick strokes of her paws, it is batted across the sky, back and forth. Then with a wink the kitten and the sun disappear, leaving the citizens of Elversult gazing up with amazed expressions that quickly turn into chortles and mirth.
The Sunlord left Elversult the same day in humilitation, and was never heard from again. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2005 : 14:52:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Zandilar
I wasn't under the impression that (short of miracle) clerics got a spell that could change their (or someone else's) shape. Does this mean they'd have to use Miracle or could they petition the deity to grant a spell that's not on the list (like a cleric version of polymorph any object).
Clerics can receive lots of spells which have never been published, as the known rosters are very focused towards adventuring. The 3E list is deliberately combat-based and excludes, for instance, ceremony (one of the most important spells for most priests) and censure. Non-hack-and-slash magic is another area it's be nice to know more about.
Ah, Ed and his enormously muscled abdomen.
(Relation of drow language to elven?) |
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Beowulf
Learned Scribe
Canada
322 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2005 : 14:59:17
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Beowulf, re. “Christianity's stance towards sexual adventure,” hast thou never heard of the Clink, in London? Just one of many hundreds of European city brothel districts run by, ahem, the Church?
Nay, nay. My prudishness forbids any such knowledge ;-)
However, I was refering more to early Christianity which was an urban-ghetto phenom, growing up out of the ghetto to address the problems of the ghetto (and how they relate to the rest of the city), unwanted pregnancy and the proliferation of bastard/fatherless children being one such problem. Spread of disease amongst these *very* malnourished, *very* unclean, and tightly packed *multitudes* being others.
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"Ill tempered the wretch, who laughs at everyone. He cannot recognize, as he should, that he is not without faults." the High One, Poetic Edda |
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Zandilar
Learned Scribe
Australia
313 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2005 : 01:29:53
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Heya,
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
Clerics can receive lots of spells which have never been published, as the known rosters are very focused towards adventuring. The 3E list is deliberately combat-based and excludes, for instance, ceremony (one of the most important spells for most priests) and censure. Non-hack-and-slash magic is another area it's be nice to know more about.
Yes, that's true enough I suppose. But why would a shape changing spell not be included? Especially since the wizard/sorcerer versions are.
I also agree that it would be nice to know about non-adventuring related magic. |
Zandilar
~amor vincit omnia~
~audaces fortuna iuvat~
As the spell ends, you look up into the sky to see the sun blazing overhead like noon in a desert. Then something else in the sky catches your attention. Turning your gaze, you see a tawny furred kitten bounding across the sky towards the new sun. Her eyes glint a mischevious green as she pounces on it as if it were nothing but a colossal ball of golden yarn. With quick strokes of her paws, it is batted across the sky, back and forth. Then with a wink the kitten and the sun disappear, leaving the citizens of Elversult gazing up with amazed expressions that quickly turn into chortles and mirth.
The Sunlord left Elversult the same day in humilitation, and was never heard from again. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2005 : 01:49:26
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| Well, AD&D and D&D differentiate arcane and divine magic slightly differently (and more crudely) than in Ed's Realms. More wizardly healing spells exist than the rules suggest, for instance, and clerical magic may similarly be a little more versatile than D&D has it. |
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Proc
Acolyte
Canada
32 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2005 : 02:47:12
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A question for Ed, or other Candlekeep denizens who could point me towards a definitive answer...
Something has bugged me for a little bit, and it was rehashed after reading through the Realms of Dragons II anthology, and that is: Do the dragons of the Realms have forked tongues? And if they do, do they use them to taste the air as snakes do? My mental image of dragons has never included them flicking their tongues in and out as they stalked the unfortunate adventurer that tried to take a piece of their hoard... |
"May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house."
- George Carlin |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2005 : 04:07:56
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Hello again, all. Ed replies to Weiser_Cain’s query about the Chosen who “makes sure to keep human, half-elven, and elven family trees up to date so they don’t become lost. . . . Why would they become 'lost' and what does it mean to be lost?”
Hi. Here I simply meant a Magister who tries to record genealogies (not just of armigerous families, whom the Heralds are concerned with, but anyone, of high or low birth or station, who has within their family ranks someone with an aptitude for the Art [ = a wizard or sorcerer], which turns out to be most people). She works and works to record who married who and what offspring they had. This isn’t necessarily knowledge that the individuals she’s recording know, or will learn, and it may never make the slightest difference to their lives - - but it does mean that Mystra’s servants can follow genetic lines, if they want to, of persons with, say, spellfire, or an aptitude for water magic, or particular magic-related prestige classes, and so on.
(Note I said “if they want to;” thus far, few of the Chosen have bothered consulting this ever-accumulating genealogical work, for whatever reasons.)
Lineages become ‘lost’ for all sorts of reasons, of course, including warfare, disease, winterkill, slavery, monster attacks, fires that destroy local temple and family records, illiteracy and bad memory or lack of teaching (older family members to younger kin), and so on. Most ‘common folk’ in the Realms can accurately and fully trace their family tree back three generations at most, and ‘back beyond that’ is little more than a string of colourful tales and claims to be related to this or that king or local hero or villain.
So saith Ed. Drifting close to real-world reality here, I’d say.
If that isn’t too trite or redundant a construction. Ah, I’m too weary to mind much just now. More Realmslore on the morrow!
love to all,
THO
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2005 : 05:49:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Proc
A question for Ed, or other Candlekeep denizens who could point me towards a definitive answer...
Something has bugged me for a little bit, and it was rehashed after reading through the Realms of Dragons II anthology, and that is: Do the dragons of the Realms have forked tongues? And if they do, do they use them to taste the air as snakes do? My mental image of dragons has never included them flicking their tongues in and out as they stalked the unfortunate adventurer that tried to take a piece of their hoard...
Not to step on the venerable Ed's toes (and thereby sparking a contingency meteor swarm), but it's always been my impression that some do and some don't. Now which and which, that someone else would have to answer. It probably depends, largely enough, on the artist in question, but it's the kind of thing that shouldn't.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2005 : 08:00:59
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Hiya Ed,
Can you expand on the agreement that Eilistraee has with Shevarash? I understand that her clergy are mostly drow but Demihuman Deities makes it sound like Shevarash's clergy wouldn't kill Eilistraee's on sight if they knew that the drow were part of her clergy.
So I guess what I'm mostly asking is, does he allow his clergy to kill Eilistraee's clergy on sight and then ask questions later? Or does he, or his clegy, have a way to tell that the drow, or other followers of her, that they are about to slaughter are "protected" because they are not evil drow since the two deities are allies, even though they are uneasy allies. He could send his clergy a manifestation, spell, or anything like that to show that they are about to slaughter her clergy .... |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 06 May 2005 08:51:04 |
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Elfinblade
Senior Scribe
Norway
377 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2005 : 11:16:08
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Mr. Greenwood
Although i have a few queries still pending in your inbox, namely: coffee(which has been answered) tea, beer and other beverages and import/export on these items,
i am in need of a reply on the following:
I am currently running a campaign in calimport, where one of my characters has decided to learn the esteemed profession of cooking/preparing exquisit meals. he is currently in apprenticeship in "the rusty nail and other delicacies". The other day he asked me about methods and ingredients for marinating meat and/or fish. Have you got any local (realmsian) herbs and oils used in marinating?
I also wondered about what kind of trees inhabit the Cormanthor forest? are they pine trees?
Later -Stig-
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2005 : 11:54:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Zandilar
Hmm... Maybe I should stay quiet for a while next time, that way other people get a chance at having their questions answered.
While I obviously can only speak for myself, I have to say - please don't.
I find this discussion, and the spirit in which it is held, to be very informative about things I didn't even know I wanted to know. So, before I start getting long-winded (something that's happened to me more than once), please Lady Zandilar and Ed, could we have some more? |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
Edited by - Kajehase on 06 May 2005 11:55:20 |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2005 : 01:17:13
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Hi again, fellow scribes. KnightErrantJR asked: “I was just wondering if Ed has ever done the traditional DM reality warping
. . . by that I mean, you write down an NPC that you once listed as LG as being LN, and then make up a back story that would explain the change in class, alignment, etc. that your players may never have any idea about.”
And Ed replies:
No, though I’ve often had to concoct explanations when other creatives at work in the Realms have changed classes, alignments, locations, lineages and even genders of existing characters from one product to the next. :}
In the ‘home’ Realms, I pay close attention to the imaginary lives of a rather large (40-plus) ‘core’ group of important NPCs that the PCs interact with repeatedly (not always often), and note their adventures, mundane doings, locations, and level or skill advancements (if any) in an ongoing manner, so they ‘grow’ alongside the PCs. By the way, the forty-some number doesn’t include the dozen or so NPC Knights; add them in and we’re easily up over sixty.
So saith Ed. I’ve never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he’s running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too . . .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
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Questions for Ed Greenwood (2005)
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