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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Feb 2005 : 02:26:16
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Hi,
I would like to know (if possible) what is the current (1372) status of the city of Zhentil Keep ? |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2005 : 14:54:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Melfius
High praise, indeed, kuje! Meeting Ed IS more important than a kidney stone!
"Dear Ed,
"I would rather meet you than pass a kidney stone...."
If you don't be careful, you'll turn the poor man's head.  |
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Melfius
Senior Scribe
USA
516 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2005 : 15:17:26
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
quote:
Originally posted by Melfius
High praise, indeed, kuje! Meeting Ed IS more important than a kidney stone!
"Dear Ed,
"I would rather meet you than pass a kidney stone...."
If you don't be careful, you'll turn the poor man's head.
Well, since you put it THAT way...
How about an ingrown toenail? |
Melfius, Pixie-Priest of Puck - Head Chef, The Faerie Kitchen, Candlekeep Inn
"What's in his pockets, besides me?"
Read a tale of my earlier days! - Happiness Comes in Small Packages |
Edited by - Melfius on 24 Feb 2005 15:20:19 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2005 : 17:34:12
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
quote:
Originally posted by Melfius
High praise, indeed, kuje! Meeting Ed IS more important than a kidney stone!
"Dear Ed,
"I would rather meet you than pass a kidney stone...."
If you don't be careful, you'll turn the poor man's head.
Pass a stone? I wish! More like wait in the ER for 12 hr's, get a cat scan, then go admitted to a room, wait around a day or two until they can get me in the OR for another 2 to 6 hr operation as they pull it out since my body doesn't pass them. And before someone asks, of course I get knocked out for that! Wake me up when you done, thanks. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Phoebus
Acolyte
18 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2005 : 21:24:28
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Hooded One & Ed,
First, greetings from the modern Mesopotamia. As you might guess, life here revolves around the occasional bouts of excitement that break up longer periods of anxious boredom.
I apologize in advance for the first couple of questions--my internet connection is doubtful and unreliable at best, and so I'd rather use my precious minutes (they're like the cigarettes of earlier wars!) asking you all directly instead of chancing a failed "Search" function. Please forgive!
Now, for the questions:
1) I seem to rememember that the Old Empires supplement was written by someone whose initials weren't E.G., but I can't be sure. What part (if any) did you have in the creation or development of Chessenta, Unther, or Mulhorand? I know in the past you've said you would have rather avoided dealing with close parallels to the real world, and I wondered if this chunck of the Realms fell under that statement. This is more a "personal curiosity" question (I have nothing against the product either way), and a "Yes" or "No" answer will do if either of you is short on time.
2) With the Old Empires (we're dealing with a heavily modified Chessenta) still on our mind, would you say the DMG's rates for mercenaries sound decent for that part of the Realms? If you need more specifics, the PCs (hard on their luck after much gambling, carousing, and the purchase of near-worthless real estate) are working as looking for work as either scouts, or as a bodyguard cohort to nobility at war. They are rather experienced as far as hired shields go--3 men at arms including one good at tracking, a rogue, and a Helmite priest with secrets. If I'm throwing too much info, it's only because I'm hoping for specifics and I've seen from other posts that specific answers require first a specifc question.
3) Looking at the Elves coming back to Cormanthyr, I imagine they would be equipped for trouble (what with Drow, otherworldly threats, and the like crawling through their old turf). What would be an accurate description of the Tel'Quessir guardians for a party lucky enough to actually lay eyes on them? I'm thinking more along the lines of Sun or Moon Elves, and am specifically wandering how they go about the scouting/defense of their erstwhile home. As in, how many, how experienced/old they are (young bucks, or tried-and-true swordswingers and shooters with a couple centuries under their belts), how the equip themselves, how far do they roam from their communities, etc. I'm working on a storyline I haven't had a chance to deal with for some time... and anything would help.
Well, I hope the weather is good and the fun is plenty where you're at. Take care, and I look forward to hearing from y'all.  |
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Phoebus
Acolyte
18 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2005 : 22:51:04
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Well, it looks like I have some extra minutes, so I thought I'd add an observation to the War Wizard Debate. But first, I want to offer my best wishes to Jerry--for tackling such a big project--and my thanks to Ed, for offering up so many gems.
First, a little background on myself (as a qualifier of sorts for what I'm about to say):
I'm in the USAF, though the nature of my job over the last 8 years has allowed me to work with the Army (almost more than I do with my parent service), the Marine Corps, and even a bit with the Navy. My job has included liaison and coordination work as high up as regional command headquarters (which oversee the Coalition forces in Iraq, for example) and operational duties as far forward as the nose closest to the guys shooting at us. People I have worked with have ranged from the lowest no-stripe Private in a line fire-team, to a couple of 3-star Generals.
Having said that, far from thinking Vangey's character to be unusual for one in his position, I find myself wanting to ask Ed what real-world personalities he patterned Cormyr's Mage Royal after?
Without trying to alarm people, the micro-manager/buddy-buddy persona is neither rare nor a modern invention among people in leadership positions. Micro-managing is a well-practiced art among high ranking officers, and the tendency to exert "buddy-buddy" influence (whether consciously or not) is especially prevalent when concerning senior leaders dealing with field officers and non-commissioned officers whom they risen through the ranks with and groomed into new positions of responsibility.
I appreciate Jerry's questions and puzzlement, because I think he's trying to deal with what makes sense and should be, but I think what is more important is the idea that people don't necessarily make sense; they don't always make the right decisions; and yet, they can--and do--succeed despite their human foibles.
Some of those Generals and Colonels carry themselves with a natural charm that allows them to continue good relationships with those subordinates. Vangey, like Ed said, doesn't have that, but it doesn't stop him from exercising a similar style of leadership and authority. In that, he's merely human--he's flawed! But in his environment, and given his type of personality, it not unreasonable that he would do things his way. He developed a system of loose and personal command and control (drawn from his paranoia regarding the WW organization's previous trends) and coupled it with a great deal of redundancy (as demonstrated by Ed's example). It worked, though this likely had more to do with what Wizards bring to the table, than Vangey's own ingenuity. Being Vangey, success gave him the moral prerogative to continue this trend. Again, a "my way or the highway" trend typical of an autocratic, type-A personality. None of this is necessarily right. But it is, again, human. I would be more suspicious of a writer describing individuals developing flawless concepts, all the while retaining a critic and a writer's omniscience over their possible failings. Vangey, though, couldn't afford a covenant of advisors and critics in re-structuring the WW. He felt that most everyone else in the court had their own interests closest to heart (NOT Cormyr's), and that the WW themselves couldn't necessarily be trusted. And thus, he developed things as he did.
If nothing else, the last couple of pages have made "Vangey" make more sense as a character than he has to me in a long, long time. :)
Well, sorry to tread over the obvious... but this was a pretty nead read and I guess I just had to get it out of my system.  |
Edited by - Phoebus on 24 Feb 2005 22:53:21 |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2005 : 01:29:07
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Hello, all. Herewith, the words of Ed to Torkwaret, in reply to this: “Could you enlighten me on the topic of ‘Law in the Western Heartlands’? What I specifically would like to know is how land owning and borders is worked out (also how do typical villages and hamlets look like in that area)?”
Ed saith:
Torkwaret, you’ve asked something that by merest mischance happens to charge right into my newest, brightest NDA, so I can only reply in the most general (and brief) manner.
First, landowning and borders . . .
Generally speaking, formal land-law only exists in kingdoms and other organized countries; otherwise, “might makes right” and “what the local lord or kingpin says, goes.”
In reality, of course, this brute-force, “my sword is the law” approach is always tempered by custom (the habits of generations, that build up into “the way things are done” and the expectations of locals [e.g. “You can push us, self-styled ‘lord,’ but only so far: my grandsire built that fence and my daddy expanded it - - tear it down and on their graves I swear I’ll tear YOU down!”]) and by the unwritten ‘rules of the road’ understood by caravan-merchants, peddlers, pilgrims, and envoys, and enforced by priests and by the Heralds. An example of this second factor would be: “If you set up an inn and then murder everyone who stops there and keep their goods, I don’t care if that’s morally okay to you personally, as a devout follower of Bane or of Cyric: if you do such things, expect to get wiped out by several caravans arriving at once fully intending to murder YOU, the moment word gets out, or just shunned and ignored, with no one visiting you for any reason, so I hope there’s absolutely nothing you need by way of trade, ever again, from now until the end of your life.”
These factors usually boil down to: you can charge fees for the use of your land, or you can fence off your land and guard it, with notices, prohibiting all or specific uses of it - - but you can’t simply butcher, maim, imprison, or rob individuals you find on your land. Moreover, you can’t flout local customs with regard to buying and selling land, renting land to farmers to till or stable and paddock-space and room-and-board to travellers.
Some places have written deeds (and if they do, such are often kept either at local lords’ castles or at the nearest temple), some places have an overall map, and some have nothing at all beyond squatting and driving out undesirables and local crafters and shopkeepers shunning folk who “don’t belong” and “aren’t one of us.”
Borders between neighbours might be settled with violence, or by documents and rules and solemn (church or Herald-witnessed) agreements. Borders between nobility or rulers or countries are always solemnized somehow (usually with agreements or treaties arising out of wars, and enforced by periodic border patrols or even garrisons). Often such borders follow a river (or mountain range, or road) for convenience. Miscreants fleeing across a border can’t depend on its protection unless there are patrols or garrisons; otherwise, persons seeking to bring them to justice will simply follow them, ignoring the border.
As for the ‘look’ of typical villages and hamlets: surrounded by pastureland or farms, with fences of gathered stumps and stones (let grow wild into a tall, often impenetrable ‘hedge’ by encouraging thornbushes, especially [edible] berry-bushes, to grow along them), or ‘split-rail’ fences of zig-zag timbers. A village or hamlet usually grows up around a temple or shrine, waymoot, or mill (hence, a stream), and often has a market (open-air area for farmers to sell produce), a public well or horsepond, a tavern, and one or more local shops and services (smithy, carpenter and/or wagon-maker), an inn if the village or its temple is large enough, and so on.
The settlement usually consists of fieldstone and log buildings, with board roofs (often covered with earth to grow gardens), with a kitchen garden out back. Most buildings front along the roads or trails of the community, and there are usually steadily-dwindling woodlots, communal outdoor ovens or roasting-hearths, and the like. Clay brick, wattle-and-daub, and moss chinking can all be seen, root-cellars are everywhere, tile and steep snow-shedding roofs are rarities but can be found, and most buildings are a single storey high (temples and grand homes of lords or wizards being the exceptions). Most settlements have a lookout, either a tower or more often just a hilltop (with a signal-beacon bonfire laid ready for lighting, to worn of an approaching army or orc horde). Only the best roads have ditches, and roads are packed bare earth except in swampy areas (where logs are laid crosswise, in what our world terms a “corduroy road”).
Unlike our real world, most folk of the Western Heartlands love trees, and although they harvest them heavily for daily use, they also replant and refrain from denuding everything (fences keep grazing livestock from wandering at will), the rolling, lightly-treed hill country of the Western Heartlands doesn’t look all THAT different from the way it did before humans settled all across it.
So saith Ed. More Realmslore, as usual, to come. Probably tomorrow.
Phoebus, thank you: VERY well said. I’ll pass on your comments to Ed. The Old Bearded One is even more wearily busy than usual, but he WILL get to all lore requests, and is doggedly maintaining at least an answer a day schedule.
love to all,
THO
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Jerryd
Acolyte
USA
33 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2005 : 04:47:33
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quote:
Originally posted by THO
Jerryd, there’s a note in here that will probably be of interest to you, too.
Yes, it was of interest; thank you! And as a side note to that, I still plan to reply to Ed's last large multi-part posting to me, although I want to try to shorten my reply in order to wrap that particular subject up. I've had to put it aside for the past week-plus because of other major things happening. For one, I had to reinstall everything on my workstation from the OS on up, and for another, this was my first week at my new job - I'm once again employed! Part of the reason I've had so much time to devote to the Realms lately was an 8.5-month spell of unemployment. While working will be great for my finances, it will reduce the time I have to spend on Realms matters. Anyway, I'm hoping to get a reply posted to Ed some time next week to try to wrap that up.
And thank you, Dear Lady, for the very kind compliment on my latitude/longitude work!
To Jhastarr, Hoondatha, and Sanishiver regarding the latitude/longitude work:
Yes, I'm still around, although the abovementioned other events have kept me away from being active here!
Here's the original article I posted to the REALMS-L list, which prompted the discussion referred to by our Lady Hooded One:
http://oracle.wizards.com/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind0412E&L=realms-l&P=R2
Everything in that article is valid except for the city latitudes and the estimated diameter and axial tilt of Toril.
The updated diameter and axial tilt were arrived at by Ed and myself in the page our Lady Hooded One indicated (p.80 of that thread), and I posted those values on REALMS-L here:
http://oracle.wizards.com/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind0501A&L=realms-l&P=R521
This article on the REALMS-L list gives the corrected latitude values (correction also due to the discussion with Ed) for the sites I previously did the calcs for:
http://oracle.wizards.com/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind0502A&L=realms-l&P=R2
As far as the Great Mount of Ghaethluntar, that wasn't one of the landmarks I originally did the calculations for. Just for Jhastarr, though, I loaded up my screen shot and spreadsheet and got the info:
Latitude 51°30'N
Longitude 19°57'E
Give or take a few minutes, of course!
And a final remark...
quote:
Originally posted by Phoebus
I appreciate Jerry's questions and puzzlement, because I think he's trying to deal with what makes sense and should be, but I think what is more important is the idea that people don't necessarily make sense; they don't always make the right decisions; and yet, they can--and do--succeed despite their human foibles.
That's an excellent and succinct summation of what I was trying to do. "Making sense" is vital to me. I'm a firm believer that "making sense" is a vital ingredient of insuring success. It's true that people don't necessarily make sense or make the right decisions, but I firmly believe that this "loads the dice" for failure. The more they make sense and make the right decisions, the necessarily greater their chance to succeed. People who succeed despite not making sense or making the wrong decisions - despite their human foibles as you put it - do so only through blind dumb luck, and luck (being the fickle lady she is) only goes so far or lasts so long — people (or institutions) who habitually don't make sense and/or make the wrong decisions are virtually guaranteed to fail in anything more than the short term. I firmly believe this to be absolute fact, and this belief has shaped how I wanted to portray the War Wizards given that I consider them to be a farirly successful and effective institution. I know that (war wizards aside) some will disagree with this basic premise underlying my approach, so I'll just agree to disagree. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4688 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2005 : 05:47:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Jerryd
I firmly believe this to be absolute fact, and this belief has shaped how I wanted to portray the War Wizards given that I consider them to be a farirly successful and effective institution. I know that (war wizards aside) some will disagree with this basic premise underlying my approach, so I'll just agree to disagree.
This indeed is the problem, "Belief is Error"
Once anyone puts belief first they lose objectivity when judging the facts as they are revealed. A 600 to 800 member organization will have problems even if to outside eyes it appears to be working very good. This is true of any org, each though seeks to maintain the image and hstory of their successes and if not able to hide failures from eyes (outside and within the org) rationaise why the failure occured.
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Sarkile
Acolyte
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2005 : 06:13:55
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| I have a question for Ed, although I feel kind of silly asking it. I would like to know what the responses would be at a planetouched character's arrival in the dalelands if the character was calm and offered no violence. I bet I can guess, but how would the reactions differ between a half fiendish person, a half celestial and the different genasi? When I ask this question the dales I'm primarily thinking of are Shadowdale and Mistledale. |
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Phoebus
Acolyte
18 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2005 : 18:11:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Jerryd
People who succeed despite not making sense or making the wrong decisions - despite their human foibles as you put it - do so only through blind dumb luck, and luck (being the fickle lady she is) only goes so far or lasts so long — people (or institutions) who habitually don't make sense and/or make the wrong decisions are virtually guaranteed to fail in anything more than the short term.
Hey Jerry,
Well, you're right about the "agree to disagree" thing where real life is concerned. Insofar as the Realms, the War Wizards, and Vangey are concerned... I guess the way I look at it is that it's not so much luck as it is magic, and all the things one can accomplish with it, despite his own "human foibles."
Cheers,
Phoebus |
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Phoebus
Acolyte
18 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2005 : 20:31:10
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Hooded One & Ed,
Please ignore the Cormanthyr question. I've been plagued by that "on the tip of my tongue" feeling for the past 24 hours, and finally remembered that it had been asked (and answered) half a year ago and two thirds of an Asia away. How embarassing!  |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2005 : 02:02:53
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Hello, fellow scribes. Time for another omnibus of swift replies and comments from Ed (in no particular order):
Ty, you’re quite welcome! Let me know what happens. I promise more recipes in the future, somewhere, with rather clearer “real-world equivalent” instructions.
Gerath Hoan, I LOVE Lost Empires of Faerun. Too short, of course, but . . . :}
Much of the book is based on, or was “developed” (in WotC parlance) in light of many the tidbits of ‘ancient times’ lore I’ve let drop over the years (hallowed scribes like Eric Boyd and George Krashos collect these, discuss them, come to understand them, and can therefore ride forth to apply them whenever necessary). The magelord presented in LEoF is based on the Magelords I created for Athalantar (seen previously in ELMINSTER: THE MAKING OF A MAGE and in “The Athalantan Campaign” DRAGON article; you’ll get another glimpse of one in the forthcoming ‘Best of Eddie’ collection). A good half of the monsters detailed therein were originally my creations, years ago, and so on. So yes, I provided a lot of lore for the authors, but I did so over the years before LEoF was written, not as direct part of its creation.
In my opinion, a character could certainly be a magelord and a Harper. In fact, the rather piratical illustration of the magelord (striped pantaloons and all) aptly captures the ‘young embittered Harper with attitude’ elements of Those Who Harp.
Sarkile, there are no silly or inappropriate questions, just silly or inappropriate answers. Shadowdale and Mistledale are “crossroads” dales, traversed often by caravans. Their folk are used to seeing and dealing with a lot of “different” people. Therefore, overt racism or “nationalism” is very rare; their reactions will depend on the character’s actions and words, whether the character is just passing through or settling, and the company the character keeps (squat on someone’s farm illegally and have plenty of monstrous visitors and you’ll be treated with suspicion at best; rent a room and mingle with folk without displaying attitude and you’ll be accepted but always watched with benign curiosity because you’re “from away” ratther than born and bred in that particular dale). The more like a “devil” or other creature of nightmarish tavern-tales you look like, the less positive folks’ initial reactions will be, of course.
Wooly Rupert, re: “When two greater doppelgangers are in their assumed identities, can they each tell that the other is a doppelganger?”
I’d say no, although please always remember that I’m not an official rules answerer. However, in my Realms campaign, I’d say not. If a doppleganger WANTS to signal their true nature to ‘other dopplegangers only,’ there are ways of doing it subtly, that probably wouldn’t be noticed by someone who’s not watching for them and isn’t very near and looking closely: by making the pupils of the eyes ‘swim’ for a moment, or small areas of skin ‘ripple’ like waves.
So saith Ed. More “quickies” (ahem, no comments, boys) from Ed tomorrow.
love to all,
THO
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zeathiel
Acolyte
15 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2005 : 07:18:47
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A question for Ed,
Regarding the malaugrym...
How does one go about assigning names? And are there genders amoung the species? Or are they all considered uni-sex (whichever gender is convienient at the moment)?
My thanks |
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rjs465
Acolyte
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2005 : 18:18:21
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| What ever happend to Castlemorn? |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2005 : 23:12:57
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quote:
Originally posted by rjs465
What ever happend to Castlemorn?
I found this article which contains some news on the tome. |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2005 : 23:15:31
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Zeathiel: I have no idea how the malaugrym are named (actually, that brings me to a question: how do you [meaning Ed] come up with Realms names? It always drives me nuts whenever I'm trying to come up with authentic-sounding NPC names), however, I do have a little info on their genders.
According to what I remember of Cloak of Shadows (btw, if you haven't read the Shadows of the Avatar trilogy, I heartily reccomend it. Not only is it perhaps the best Realms fiction ever written, it deals heavily with the malaugrym), the malaugrym were once humans who ended up in the Plane of Shadow. Over the centuries it has changed them and they have learned to manipulate it. So, while they can shapeshift at will, they retain human genders. Though I'm sure they could change gender if they wished (and some do for disguises), I got the feeling that when relaxing they defaulted to their original gender.
Finally, a question that may have been answered. Was the head of the Magelords (the guy who gets cooked at the very end of Elminster; Making of a Mage) Malaug? He was obviously a shapeshifter, and the malaugrym keep going on about Elminster killing the first of them. So, was he him?
Thanks, and I hope this helped Zeathiel. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2005 : 01:58:34
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Hello, all. Ed’s swift’n’short replies continue:
kuje31, thanks for your love and your devouring. It’s what keeps me going (I’m being honest here, not flippant). And yes, I think the most valuable lore I can provide here (aside from swift, timely answers for individual campaign needs) is the stuff that for whatever reason doesn’t “fit” official publication needs, and so probably won’t ever find its way into print.
And, yes, groupies are nice. They keep my head turning, Elaine winking, my toenails growing inward - - all of that. ;}
Are your NPCs posted or assembled here at Candlekeep? THO gave me your website link in your message, but Excel files don’t work for me (primitive Net connection). I’d be quite happy to supply ‘soft’ (as opposed to ‘crunch’) lore on the NPCs, yes, if I can see what you’ve already assembled. Dessra is well on the way; expect her ahem, details in about a week.
As for Arbristae, I probably didn’t provide enough detail in my post to make things clear. Embra in the Aglirta books was being coldbloodedly readied for a long, complicated ritual that would bind her sentience into the stones of a fortress, as a ‘slave force’ obedient to the wizards involved. Arbristae was killed by a suitor she spurned, who used magic both to kill her (in his rage) and then make her body “disappear” (he converted it to liquid that he stirred into the water standing ready in all of the mortar-mixing cauldrons). Embra’s fate would have been premeditated and sophisticated, whereas Abristae’s was unplanned, swift, violent, and had unintended consequences.
Athenon, Silverymoon’s mythal is detailed in SILVER MARCHES, and it doesn’t affect ALL evil creatures with an Antipathy effect. It only visits that effect on evilly-aligned demons, devils, dragons, drow, duergar, giants, goblinoids, illithids, orcs, and trolls.
So everybody else (including, yes, humans!) can be evil and can enter, depart, and function normally in the city (a sample evil resident NPC is even given in SILVER MARCHES).
I hope to provide much more detail on Silverymoon, a favourite city of mine, in time to come. In the meantime, there should still be a two-part “My Slice of Silverymoon” article I did on the WotC website, somewhere.
Skeptic, the current status of Zhentil Keep is: whatever you want it to be in your campaign. In the “official” Realms, it’s been rebuilt (to match almost precisely all locations of former buildings and streets, so my old FR ADVENTURES map can be used) under the firm control of the Fzoul-led Zhentarim, and is wealthier and more influential - - as the Zhents tighten their hold over more and more of the Moonsea area - - than ever before. At the same time: the sewers work, there are no longer any press-gangs forcibly “recruiting” folk in the streets, those streets are clean and orderly, and trade (and the visitors who bring it) are coming, in increasing numbers. The city itself IS a ‘police state,’ with spies everywhere and chances for most sorts of adventuring very slender. The law is ruthless, very fair (except when it suits the Zhentarim to apply unfair enforcement or sentencings), prosperity is widespread, and the place is full of “craven schemers” who want to get rich by doing just as the Network wants them to: acting as servile entrepreneurs who are eager to (in terms of trade) colonize and dominate the Dales, Cormyr, Westgate, and especially wealthy Sembia. The Zhentarim encourage this, because it extends their influence without them having to do any of the leg-work; once Zhentish merchants are everywhere, they can clamp down and begin to squeeze taxes out of them while at the same time making them spies and dagger-agents abroad.
The Red Wizards of Thay, the independent merchants of Sembia, and the Royal Court of Cormyr (just to name three interested parties) have other ideas, of course.
So saith Ed. Who promises a longer reply tomorrow, this one to Phoebus in case his chances to Net-connect become more difficult (yes, Ed’s keeping track of, and working on, all of the older replies too!).
love to all,
THO
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2005 : 03:27:38
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Nay,
I didn't have a list posted on candlekeep because the lists are to long. So far from the sourcebooks I've done there are over 1,500 fighters alone. :) That doesn't include the 1,000 wizards or the 800+ clerics. :)
I was just allowing Ed to give some details on NPC's he likes instead of answering all of our questions all the time. So he could pick and choose which NPC's he wanted to supply info on. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2005 : 09:40:55
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
Nay,
I didn't have a list posted on candlekeep because the lists are to long. So far from the sourcebooks I've done there are over 1,500 fighters alone. :) That doesn't include the 1,000 wizards or the 800+ clerics. :)
I was just allowing Ed to give some details on NPC's he likes instead of answering all of our questions all the time. So he could pick and choose which NPC's he wanted to supply info on. :)
Well met
Oh the halls are plenty big enough, kuje If ye wish to use Candlekeep for this splendid project then i'd be more than happy to lend a helping hand  |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2005 : 14:45:54
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Thanks for the answer on Zhentil Keep, the Moonsea region is one of my favorite in the realms, and I have run many campaigns there. Can I hope to see something official on the region before many years ? Maybe not a official regional product, but at least something on the Wotc web site? ;)
The official 2E product is clearly out of date and the status of different sites (not just Zhentil keep) really need an update...
Any quick info on Phlan, Melvaunt, etc.. or the ruins of Yûlash/Hulburg/Suslaspryn would be welcome of course...
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2005 : 14:50:46
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Hello, all. Ed makes reply to Phoebus:
Phoebus, well met again, and thank you for your eloquent posts. Let me try some answers:
OLD EMPIRES was ably written by Scott Bennie, who has since updated it ‘for free’ on the Net (scribes, please help me with where it can now be found). I had nothing directly to do with the writing of that product, although my sketchy lore-notes were provided, and of course all the place-names and geography of Chessenta, Unther, and Mulhorand (plus their general overall character and relationships to each other) were part of my original (pre-publication) Realms. You’re quite right: given my druthers, I’d never have put elements so recognizably “real-world historical” into the Realms, but their inclusion was inevitable given TSR’s plans for the Realms to be the “home” of 2nd Edition AD&D: it had to embrace Arabian Adventures (the working title for Al-Qadim), Oriental Adventures, Sea Adventures, Arctic Adventures, Lost World/Livingstone/Indiana Jones (Chult), Conquering the New World (Maztica), and so on. I think Scott did a superb job, and my only regret is that we’ve never examined Chessenta’s city-states in proper detail and depth: it could have been an absolutely fascinating, maximum-freedom-to-plug-in-commerical-modules setting for Realms-based campaigns.
The DMG pay rates for mercenaries are just fine for work in Chessenta, and there’s lots of it: everybody important has bodyguards, sometimes to make a show (or exaggeration) of their own importance). So the PCs should have no trouble getting work as bodyguards, envoy-escorts (or wagon-escorts, if they’d like), spies and scouts (spies try to hide, scouts look around quite openly), and even personal champions. Widespread war is less liekly, because the region is beginning to weary of it.
In this region it’s customary to provide lodging (tents when ‘in the field’), livery (including armor and shields, if you want your underlings to wear “matching harness”), and basic food (with water and fruit juices, but no alcohol) to your hireswords IN ADDITION TO their base pay. By the way, the Heralds of Faerûn can and do act as ‘bankers’ for hireswords who’ve nowhere secure to stash their pay - - and EVERYONE will leap to defend a Herald facing robbery or violence, as a result.
As for elves returning to Cormanthyr, in addition to what I said to you back on Page 11 (I think) of the 2004 thread: aside from the adventurer-types I mentioned then, you’d also see a mixed bag of other elves: younglings coming for the adventure and to “see all the magnificence and long-lost secrets they’ve heard so much about,” and veterans grimly wanting to reclaim “what was lost” (and sometimes to specifically find particular buildings, tombs or spots where loved ones died, particular lost personal or family or valued magical items, and so on).
Yes, they’d come well-armed; they know from the elves who for so many years cordoned off the ruins of Myth Drannor just how dangerous conditions they’ll find, and they’re well aware of the “gold rush” currently going on, with drow (and worse!) also journeying to and through the ruins.
So they’d be well-armed (with magic and healing potions, not just physical weaponry), experienced-at-fighting-on-the-ground-together groups of a dozen or more. Primarily moon elves, but the “gold rush” aspect means a DM could include just about any mix of sub-races and classes. Most such groups move stealthily, sometimes with permanent fly spells on themselves so they don’t have to “touch boot down” if they don’t want to, spread out in a loose oval and keeping to cover, with missile weapons and spells ready to provide ‘covering fire’ if foes are encountered. Even when battle is joined, they keep as quiet as possible (no ringing war-cries). They do carry signal horns, but prefer to communicate with imitated verbal beast-calls.
Those who do try to settle anywhere in the region will establish constant patrols, both the ‘wide’ patrols I mentioned last year (about 20 miles out, once the settlement gets established) and close-in, varying routes and strengths, and magically farscrying the patrols from time to time. The intent is to know whenever large, numerous, or especially dangerous monsters are near, human incursions of all sorts, potential foes, anyone snooping with magic - - the phrase “We don’t want any surprises” might be their most apt motto!
As for Vangey, I try never to model Realms characters on real-world folk, living or dead, though of course tiny bits and pieces of what I’ve observed of real people is what drives my imagination when creating any fictional character. So Vangerdahast truly isn’t directly patterned on any one real-world personality. As you say, he represents an all-too-common personality type. I was frankly astonished that Jerryd hadn’t run into many such; I was expecting him to react rather as you have, based on an experience of having met, heard of, or worked with too many micro-manager/buddy-buddy personae.
And you’ve hit this right on the head: “Vangey, though, couldn't afford a covenant of advisors and critics in re-structuring the WW. He felt that most everyone else in the court had their own interests closest to heart (NOT Cormyr's), and that the WW themselves couldn't necessarily be trusted. And thus, he developed things as he did.” Bingo.
And thank you for this: “If nothing else, the last couple of pages have made "Vangey" make more sense as a character than he has to me in a long, long time.”
When answering Jerryd, I became increasingly conscious of how little of the real Vangerdahast I’d managed to really get down on paper and out into the hands of Realms fans, down the years. So I don’t blame Jerryd or anyone else for not really understanding my view of him, because until now I hadn’t properly shared it.
So saith Ed. Who’s hard at work (as always!) on crafting more Realmslore for us all.
love,
THO
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2005 : 15:59:06
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Ed, Hooded Lady, and all:
The Old Empires update by Scott Bennie is available on a site known as Empire of Sand (at http://www.hallofhero.com/sand/), from the front page. The site boasts:quote:
FR10 Old Empires In D20 System by Scott Bennie
As a public service to Forgotten Realms fans everywhere, this page plays host to Scott Bennie's .pdf file full of Old Empires goodies. To view this storehouse of wonders, click here--it takes a while to load, though, and that's putting it mildly. To view a more printer-friendly version, click here. To download either of these versions, right-click on the link and select Save Link As. And finally, to tell Scott how wonderful all his cool stuff is, click here.
For all those looking, please: enjoy!
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Evro
Acolyte
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2005 : 21:40:11
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Hello Ed and THO,
I'm wondering if you might be willing to offer any information on Mythkar Leng and Lord Geildarr of Llorkh before they came to the Greyvale. Perhaps Felishar(the leader of Orlbar) as well? I've never seen any background on these guys from before the time that Geildarr moved into Llorkh with his Purple Cloaks.
Thanks so much! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2005 : 23:05:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
Ed, Hooded Lady, and all:
The Old Empires update by Scott Bennie is available on a site known as Empire of Sand (at http://www.hallofhero.com/sand/), from the front page. The site boasts:quote:
FR10 Old Empires In D20 System by Scott Bennie
As a public service to Forgotten Realms fans everywhere, this page plays host to Scott Bennie's .pdf file full of Old Empires goodies. To view this storehouse of wonders, click here--it takes a while to load, though, and that's putting it mildly. To view a more printer-friendly version, click here. To download either of these versions, right-click on the link and select Save Link As. And finally, to tell Scott how wonderful all his cool stuff is, click here.
For all those looking, please: enjoy!
Garen, thank you for sharing that with us. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Murray Leeder
Forgotten Realms Author
Canada
228 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2005 : 02:34:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Evro
Hello Ed and THO,
I'm wondering if you might be willing to offer any information on Mythkar Leng and Lord Geildarr of Llorkh before they came to the Greyvale. Perhaps Felishar(the leader of Orlbar) as well? I've never seen any background on these guys from before the time that Geildarr moved into Llorkh with his Purple Cloaks.
Thanks so much!
As a point of interest, both Geildarr and Leng figure prominently in my novel Son of Thunder, out next January. |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2005 : 02:46:52
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| Thanks Murray! Now we know who to point fingers at when Ed says an NDA has reared its ugly head! :) |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2005 : 03:13:25
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Hello, all. Ed makes reply to Dargoth (and simontrinity, too):
NDAs and of course the activities of others that lie behind them inhibit me in speaking overmuch about the Harpers, but I CAN say this much: the Harpers (what Dargoth refers to as the “Official Harpers”) have never officially split, but have always varied in their approaches, with the Twilight Hall folk being most regimented, and Elminster (and before the split, Khelben) being the most ‘I do my own thing, regardless,’ whereas Storm is the kindly ‘den mother’ who welcomes all, works with all, and mediates with all.
The Moonstars are a small, secretive group, and among their lower ranks are some Harpers that most of the REST of the Harpers believe to be still ‘just Harpers.’ They’re NOT ‘based out of’ Blackstaff Tower and never have been; Khelben and Laeral find things quite busy and crowded enough there with all of their apprentices. The Lord and Lady Mage of Waterdeep do frequently meet various ‘go-between’ Moonstars at various locales in and around Waterdeep and at the far end of handy portals (particular gardens, houses, and rented back rooms in Ardeepforest, Silverymoon, Secomber, and even Scornubel and Berdusk are frequent meeting-spots), and ‘run’ the Moonstars in this way. Elminster remains friendly but quasi-independent of them (and of Twilight Hall) as he has always been. As Dargoth surmised, neither he nor Storm believe a rift had to occur between Khelben and Twilight Hall, but both El and Storm are mature enough that they simply accept that the rift happened, and try to continue to get along with, and work with, every Harper (and Moonstar) regardless.
Storm and Elminster (like Khelben and Laeral and certain others) have always been ranked at the top of the hierarchy that only Lady Cylyria and her Twilight Hall cronies ever really cared about anyway: their senior, quasi-independent role has always been recognized, so (aside from Khelben and Laeral), nothing need have changed between Storm and El in Shadowdale and the Harpers based in Twilight Hall. Storm’s farm has always functioned as a rest, healing, and hiding place for all Harpers, a training-ground for certain junior Harpers sent to her, and a storage cache and rallying-point (a “sub-base,” if you will) and it continues to do so. To call it a base set up in opposition or rivalry to Berdusk is too strong, and misrepresents the situation. (I feel as if I’m straying into the same territory I’ve been arguing over with Jerryd, here. Remember my original words when describing the Harpers: “Think Sierra Club. Think the 1960s. Think: we’re all part of same movement, man, but we all do our own thing.” DON’T think ranks, hierarchies, discipline. It - - and the badges/pins, too - - are there, all right, but they only MATTER in Twilight Hall.)
So, yes, the ranks of the Harpers are (a bit) split by personality and therefore approach (just as they always have been, both before and after the Moonstars schism), but not at all by geography.
To answer Dargoth’s specific treatment questions:
“Would a Moonstar who turned up outside Twilight Hall be driven off?”
Probably not. Watched and treated with suspicion, perhaps even spoken to sharply and prevented from entering certain places in Twilight Hall, yes. Probably brought into a meeting with Lady Cylyria or one of her circle, yes. Imprisoned or offered violence? Not unless they acted with violence first.
“Would a Twilight Hall Harper be welcome at Storm’s farm in Shadowdale?”
Of course. Unreservedly. Storm welcomes Harpers all the time. Sometimes she even puts on clothes first.
“Would a Twilight hall Harper be turned into a toad if he turned up outside Blackstaff Tower in Waterdeep?”
Nope. Of course not. If he tried to break into the Tower and did the wrong things to the duty apprentice and whomever the duty apprentice called upon for aid, quite possibly yes - - but not for being a Harper of any sort. His treatment would depend entirely on his actions, and merely “turning up outside Blackstaff Tower” is about the same as saying “walk the streets of Waterdeep.” And thousands of folk do that every day without so much as attracting Khelben’s attention.
I hope this has been of some help. I don’t want to say much more because of some projects under way that I’m aware of.
So saith Ed. And there you have it.
Oh, and a quick additional note to Dargoth: no, Ed’s Witch-Lords reference WASN’T to Bob’s forthcoming novel, but rather to something else that must remain secret for now. I could tease just a little bit and say you’d be surprised at who IS connected to it - - but no, I won’t do that to you.
love to all,
THO
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RevJest
Learned Scribe
USA
115 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2005 : 15:52:16
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Hello, all. Ed makes reply to Dargoth (and simontrinity, too):
NDAs and of course the activities of others that lie behind them inhibit me in speaking overmuch about the Harpers, but I CAN say this much: the Harpers (what Dargoth refers to as the “Official Harpers”) have never officially split, but have always varied in their approaches, with the Twilight Hall folk being most regimented, and Elminster (and before the split, Khelben) being the most ‘I do my own thing, regardless,’ whereas Storm is the kindly ‘den mother’ who welcomes all, works with all, and mediates with all.
Ed, let me see if I'm understanding what I think I'm understanding.
As far as Twilight Hall is concerned, the Moonstars aren't Harpers.
As far as El and Storm are concerned, a rose by any other name still knows how to play a harp? :)
- S
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"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter."
- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2005 : 02:01:58
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Hello, all. Ed speaks thus to simontrinity:
Yes, simontrinity, you’ve got it. Perfectly.
Ed also makes reply to FoolishOwl’s philosophy questions:
Leaving aside lands outside Faerûn proper (i.e. Kara-Tur, the Al-Qadim regions, and Maztica), almost all philosophical traditions among humans are of two sorts: sages writing chapbooks and treatises (and every other ambitious merchant and malcontent crafter penning political polemic chapbooks and handbills), and formal, reasoned debate and written records of same - - this second sort of tradition being almost entirely fostered by, maintained within, and therefore coloured by, various churches. This means that very few philosophical traditions are useful to persons not of that faith (everything else is so slanted and circumscribed). The useful traditions are maintained by the churches of Oghma, Deneir, Milil, Mystra, and to a lesser extent Lathander, Chauntea, and Waukeen. The faiths of Silvanus, Eldath, Helm, Torm, Sêlune, and Tymora have interesting but verbal-only debating and philosophical traditions.
Most of the other intelligent races of Faerûn have philosophies dominated by the “our race is best, we shall overcome” viewpoint, with the most sophisticated debates taking place within the ranks of elves (of course), halflings, gnomes, illithids, and the Malaugrym.
The big philosophical debates of the day are twofold: the long-running, perennial “which god is truly the most powerful, and therefore what ultimate fate awaits Toril, and therefore which creed is ‘most correct,’ and therefore what should we all do?” and the newer “inheritance has been the root of rulership and land ownership for time out of mind, but we see increasingly corrupt and inept kings, nobles, and clan-chiefs; there are obviously alternatives, but are any of these better?”
So saith Ed. Mmm-hmmm. I recall the philosophical problem Ed handed us once in Shadowdale: if a shapeshifter wearing the shape of Person X married a shapeshifter wearing the shape of Person Y, and the first shapeshifter had earlier murdered Person X, while his victim, the second shapeshifter, had earlier murdered Person Y, and both families (not knowing this) celebrated and anointed the wedding, only to discover what had happened MUCH later, should the wedding ‘stand’ as legal, joining the two families (and considering the fact that the two murdered persons had been in love and in the final stages of preparing for their wedding, with the approval of both families)?
I also recall the hilarious scene we Knights witnessed in a tavern in Waterdeep, where two sages were debating whether intent made an action evil, or the results of the action could be considered empirically evil. A brawl broke out, and these two old man heatedly finger-wagged at each other and ignored the mayhem (whilst men punched each other out, hurled chairs, swung broken flagons as weapons, and bled messily all over them) - - even when they both started to get hit and thrown around. “Yes, I KNOW he just slugged me, but let us assume for the sake of argument that I was NOT, in truth, his intended target . . .”
love to all,
THO
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Questions for Ed Greenwood (2005)
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