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Kentinal
Great Reader
4695 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Dec 2004 : 02:31:43
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While these might have existed before FR did (in AD&D terms, as I recall Mr. Greedwood being quoted as saying he already had develped a fantasy world before meeting D&D) these poor misunderstood elves have gone though many transformations over the years.
I was reviewing source books from a long time ago (at least for many, 25 years is a long time) and notice the changes that has evolve, some monor others larger.
1st Ed had in addtion to MR and magic abilities granted at first levels, they also had Draveven skills concerning tunnels and rocks. There of course was also the gender adjustment males weaker then females.
2nd Ed removed the Draven skills to a great extent, however still contained the gender difference.
3rd has removed gender difference, removed magic from both that used to be obtainable.
I imagine part of this was to address the fact more players wanting to play Drow, good or evil for the racial benefits provided.
In fairness I should indicate daylight (though not happy on wording) is less harsh in 3.x then in prior editions. That certain abilities were lost but certain penalties were made less harsh.
Prehaps a few might want to comment on the changing nature of the Drow.
Footnote: Well there was not a Goddess for good Drow, even in first Edition it was posible to be aligned good, to look to another diety or just look away from that minor goddess/demon Lolth, may the might take her.
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2004 : 05:19:31
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First, Mr. Greenwood had been working on the Realms for a long, long time, well before Gary Gyax published an obscure stapled-together pamphlet-book with the title "Dungeons & Dragons." When Mr. Greenwood got his hands on said book, he immediately thought "Oh, cool, I know what to do with this." When he started writing articles on his world, he was asked if there really was this huge, detailed world behind what he was talking about, or if he was just making it up. When he said "Yes," TSR bought the publishing rights from him to create another campaign world in case the then-currently most popular one, Dragonlance, became somewhat less popular (something that didn't happen as quickly as they'd feared, but they certainly got their money's worth).
Next, the drow, including Lloth, are staples of D&D, and were first covered as part of Greyhawk as monsters. In 1e, a "monster" was anything not a player character -- that is, a monster was an NPC. (Even druids were originally "monsters," not a specific class.) When you have basically static characters, you can do a lot of things with them that you can't with changing characters, such as PCs.
In 2e, there was a move towards codifying a lot of rules. This was one of them. I don't know if you could take a drow character under standard rules, but drow could be given class levels as easily as a PC.
3e/3.5e was, at heart, an effort to fix the problems of the past, exactly as 2e was to 1e. Instead of using the exact same material, though, the designers decided to start from as much scratch as they could get away with. The result is something far more intuitive than earlier D&D, and far more universal in its applicability to what might come up in a game (you need fewer obscure rules, meaning also that you don't have to keep checking books for simple facts, like what amount of XP is required to gain your next level).
What happens with this, though, is that any race suddenly becomes playable, so you have to treat it like that. This is the reason why avariels are statted as a PC race, when there aren't supposed to be enough for 90% of Faerun to know what an avariel is. It's also the reason why drow had to be scaled back a bit from what was in previous editions, because there are only so many ECLs you can put on a race as common as the drow before you wonder how in the world they can either exist or not be ruling the world (depending on which direction you look at it).
There are a few things that I miss about the old drow, admittedly. For instance, I really liked the concept of Narbondel; any intelligent, socially adapted species would have to invent time, and this was a clever way to show it. It also gave the archmage of the First House a special social status. But since drow no longer see heat patterns, Narbondel has conveniently disapeared from the city of Menzoberranzan.
However, like I said, there are only so many ECLs you can pile on a race. Yet, there is nothing that says that all members of that race have to be at the same ECL. Take the thri-keen of the Shaar; in Shining South, they have two options: psionic or not psionic, that is the question. It's intended as an out for the DM who doesn't use psionics, but nothing says that you could have a thri-keen character who has been driven out (or left voluntarily) because it was born without psionics. Most thri-keen encountered (if any) would be psionics, while this other character would not be, and would have a lower EL adjustment as a consequence. Or, it could be the opposite -- most thri-keen in your campaign are "normals," and some have psionics.
This could also be given to the drow. There could be "normal" drow, and "noble" drow, the latter having the powers often described in the books. Drizzt remarks that only nobles can do certain things, so give nobles an ECL of +3 and some extra powers. Aditionally, nothing is stopping you from making a gender difference beyond what favored class the character has; give females a higher Strength, and males a higher Dex, for instance. (And speaking of gender-based favored class, if you take the "noble drow"/"common drow" route, noble males should be given a choice of fighter or wizard, while common males only have fighters.) |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4695 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2004 : 12:03:12
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No nothing stopping me from importing old abilities.
Though Narbondel should still be in use as a time marker, it does not need to be as hot.
As for gender differences, I would think females should get a Con and Wis boost, males Str and perhaps Dex or Int. Not sure if would deduct from the reverse scores though there should be a reduction as well as the boost (Elves already take a Con deduction another might make them less survivable).
The Draven shifting walls, knowing tunnels generally should not be a major factor in changing EL, also smithing most likely would not either and Drow do smith. Taking away that sleep poison can more then make up for stat and ability adjustments as far as EL goes. The at fourth level spells become more of a problem when doing the balancing calculation, and giving them all at first certainly would increase the EL.
The Drow generally were not PCs except if a DM decided to run an underdark campaign, where the monsters were as almost as bad. The daylight penalty was much harsher in prior editions after all.
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
Edited by - Kentinal on 19 Dec 2004 12:06:30 |
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Alparon
Seeker
Turkey
67 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2004 : 21:08:00
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| are you kidding or is there really a v 3.5 ad&d playbook? |
I am Cyric, the One and the All, God of Murder and Intrigue, Patron of Deception and Chaos, Prince of Lies, the Dark Sun, rightful Lord of the Dead, Cyric-on-a-stick, and known to some as "the Mad God." I welcome you to The Land of the Dead... |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4695 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2004 : 21:23:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Alparon
are you kidding or is there really a v 3.5 ad&d playbook?
If you mean a 3.5 Player HandBook, yes there are a few out there. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2004 : 21:40:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Alparon
are you kidding or is there really a v 3.5 ad&d playbook?
Are you kidding or did you really not know about "v.3.5" D&D? (Note, a lot of people, especially a certain Sage, dislike the "v.3.5" moniker, so we generally refer to it as 3.5e. Sometimes we'll just call it 3e if no special distinction needs to be made.)
Go here for the same SRD as is available on the Wizards of the Coast website, but in a better format with lots of hyperlinked cross-references. (I never use the official files if I can help it.)
If you just want the updates, though, go here or here (the latter containing a link to a series of articles explaining the updates). |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4695 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2004 : 22:37:57
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Back on topic.
Looking at the AD&D stats the Drow males had lower stat pobilbilties in Str, Int, Wis and Cha. Dex and Con had the same probilities. A well rolled dice allowd a male to have the same Int as a female, just odd were aganist him compared to her.
To some extent it can make sense that the Priestess did not want too powerful Wizards, that genetic breeding including trying to eliminate the strong males as much as weeding out the weaker of both sexes.
Minimun stats were required for most abilities to be 9 or better, though Con was 4d4 thoung I suspect few Con 4 Drow survived.
Trying to import GG's version into 3.x does offer a problem. The
females still tend to be larger and wiser, this indicates to me, Con, Str and Wis.
The male perfered class can support Int bonus, prehaps Dex justified as well(dogding females and combat advantages).
The Cha can be nuetral. Perhaps also nuetral Str. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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The Good old days, AD&D Drow
