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Originally posted by Ardashir

Thanks for all the responses, esp. about the Finnish gods.

And while it's OT, has anyone ever done any figuring on just when Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul ascended? I think there's a heck of a story there if anyone ever cared to tell it.

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Tyche, who became Beshaba and Tymora...

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Originally posted by warlockco

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Tyche, who became Beshaba and Tymora...

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Tyche wasn't an Interloper God in the Realms, her history is part of the Creation History of the Realms. Her name might be borrowed from the Greeks/Romans, but she was an original member of the Faerunian Pantheon since her creation.


Don't Forget that Oghma is an Interloper, him being a Greater Celtic God.

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Originally posted by warlockco

Hmm, could have sworn She was born of Selune, or maybe I was thinking of Tymora. opps

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Actually, yes, she was. Pages 127 and 128 of On Hallowed Ground (a 2E Planescape accessory) explain how she was pushed out of the Greek pantheon, and because of that, she chose to become a single-spheric power in Toril. She may have been around since Toril was young, but she's not a native (though you could argue that her "daughters", Tymora and Beshaba, are native, since they were "born" on Toril).

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

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Originally posted by Mumadar Ibn Huzal

As to the power of deities in other regions, just look at the contemporary Realms: e.g. A Mulhorandi cleric would still receive spells from his/her deity even when visiting Icewind Dale, just as a paladin of Lathander would receive spells when crusading in Menzoberanzan. A deities powers to grant spells to worshippers are not limied to a culural region - only to 2e crystal shperes and with the new 3.5e planar structure that seems no longer something to be worried about. (see also page 4 of 2e Faiths and Avatars)

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Granting spells in a region where there is no influence is not the same as having influence in a region... It's like being a cop traveling in another country. Sure, you've had the training, you've got your skills and your street sense... But you've no jurisdiction to do anything, because you're not a representative of that country's law.

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Originally posted by cpthero2

Master Rupert,

So what do you feel leads a deity to officially having influence in an area? Is it a shrine, a temple, one person worshiping, or something else do you feel?

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I would say it being worshiped widely enough that people would at least recognize the deity's name.

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

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Originally posted by cpthero2

Master Rupert,

So what do you feel leads a deity to officially having influence in an area? Is it a shrine, a temple, one person worshiping, or something else do you feel?

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I would say it being worshipped widely enough that people would at least recognize the deity's name.

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Originally posted by cpthero2

Master Rupert,

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I would say it being worshiped widely enough that people would at least recognize the deity's name.

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To be intentionally pedantic, but not in a trollish or malicious manner:

In the case of Finder Wyvernspur, he had only a handful of Saurial's worshiping him, and he was known enough to be recognized in that area. Do you feel it is just a handful therefor?

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Originally posted by cpthero2

What about followers of Mask or Loviatar? They are known for hiding their worship, and would not be "widely" known, thus their being hidden by necessity in order to not be run out of the area. How would it work for that kind of worship?

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Hiding their worship and hiding their existence is not the same thing. People have heard of Mask and Loviatar, but that doesn't mean that the average person knows any devotees of those deities.

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

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Originally posted by cpthero2

Master Rupert,

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I would say it being worshiped widely enough that people would at least recognize the deity's name.

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To be intentionally pedantic, but not in a trollish or malicious manner:

In the case of Finder Wyvernspur, he had only a handful of Saurial's worshiping him, and he was known enough to be recognized in that area. Do you feel it is just a handful therefor?

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Finder had influence in the Lost Vale area. He did not, at least in the mid-1370's, have any real influence anywhere else. He was working on that, but he's got centuries of being a minor regional power ahead of him, unless something major happens.

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Originally posted by cpthero2

What about followers of Mask or Loviatar? They are known for hiding their worship, and would not be "widely" known, thus their being hidden by necessity in order to not be run out of the area. How would it work for that kind of worship?

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Hiding their worship and hiding their existence is not the same thing. People have heard of Mask and Loviatar, but that doesn't mean that the average person knows any devotees of those deities.

Remember, deities have to spread the word of the existence, in the Realms -- because if they don't, then no one knows about them, and the deity would thus get no attention. A god that no one knows about becomes a dead god pretty quickly.

Also, with some powers, they aren't as widely worshipped as they are feared and appeased. Umberlee is a great example of this -- she may not have a lot of worshippers, but just about any sailor is going to toss some money her way as appeasement, to keep her from focusing her attention on them. For the gods, there is power in fear.

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Originally posted by bloodtide_the_red

I have always had the fear/acknowledgment/respect count as worship. In the more generic sense, when anyone invokes a deities name and believes in them, it counts as worship. So wishing someone 'Tymora's Luck' counts the same way as saying 'Hope the Dark Sun does not shine on you today'.

Also, I think a lot of people do worship the dark gods. A lot of people worship Mask for example, as a lot of people steal...and not just bandits and pick pockets. Most all races have a 'dark side'.

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Originally posted by Ayrik

The Realms has a pantheon of deities, belief in any one of them implicitly recognizes the existence of all the others.

To be sure, evil deities don't tend to attract many faithful outside their strongholds. But they are still often invoked by "nonbelievers" for minor benisons/malisons which relate to their portfolios - people might ask Shar for a small "blessing" of forgetfulness, pray that Beshaba's misfortune attends to a competitor, hope that Bane sends a "champion" to impose a sense of strong order within a democratic discord, offer a sacrifice to Umberlee for safe passage of their ships, etc. Evil gods are still gods, lol.

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