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arilyn742
Seeker
Ireland
54 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Dec 2004 : 13:07:00
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...and I read an article that implied Kara-Tur was an invention of Gary Gygax for the 1985 Oriental Adventures, and was only incorporated into Greenwood's FR in 1988.
Was I the only one who knew this not!? Did the original have the same geography, etc. as the current one?
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Yonde iru, mune no doko ka oku de
Itsumo kokoro odoru yume wo mitai
Kanashimi wa kazoekirenai keredo
Sono mukou de kitto anata ni aeru |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2004 : 16:34:20
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I don't know about Gary Gygax creating it, but it is true that the Kara-Tur was not originally part of the Realms.
When it was first published, it wasn't part of any named game world -- the early supplements bore no setting imprint beyond Oriental Adventures, and there was no reference to the world the continent was on.
Later on, using the "everything is somewhere in the Realms" philosophy, Kara-Tur was bolted on to the Realms. Products after that bore both the FR imprint and the OA imprint.
To quote a recent comment:
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
Very true.
One of the first things I learned from Jeff Grubb re: the Realms: "This is the world where anything you want to do in AD&D and/or fantasy can and does have a place."
Yup--the driving mantra of FR was "Yeah, we can do that, and here's where you find it." That's part of why we sneakily built Al-Qadim south of Faerun but didn't underscore the connections until AQ was cancelled.
Amazing, all things considered, that the patchworks atop the brilliant early worldbuilding of Ed's works so well. In 14 years, I've seen many other worlds/games try and duplicate this and fail. Guess there's something to be said about respecting a world, doing the hard work of world-building, and still leaving room for the demands of the market. 
Steven
Who often described the Realms to new people as "a world where everything has a story, if you're inclined to listen (and by the way, that rock you just tripped over has something to tell you)"
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arilyn742
Seeker
Ireland
54 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2004 : 20:59:06
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| Ah, but wouldn't the fact that in Abeir-Toril the Western gods of Faerun and that they control things are scientific fact through the whole animism that OA is based around out the window? |
Yonde iru, mune no doko ka oku de
Itsumo kokoro odoru yume wo mitai
Kanashimi wa kazoekirenai keredo
Sono mukou de kitto anata ni aeru |
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arilyn742
Seeker
Ireland
54 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2004 : 21:05:16
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Oh, yeah, and to continue what I said in my original post, does the new one even have a geography? Does it even exist beyond a couple of vague references on one page of the FRCS and one or two other books? Why not some more oriental adventures !?
Oh, yeah, and the article said that Kara-Tur was "created by Gary Gygax, David Cook and Franēois Marcela-Froideval". |
Yonde iru, mune no doko ka oku de
Itsumo kokoro odoru yume wo mitai
Kanashimi wa kazoekirenai keredo
Sono mukou de kitto anata ni aeru |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4688 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2004 : 21:17:38
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In general, the new one uses the old maps and informaption concerning locations until such a time a new map is presented. Of course all characters do need to be 3.x and equipment skills and feats adjusted. Not sure how much has been converted officially and how much has been fan converted.
Edit: Got distracted.
You want to know how much the original changed when imported to FR, odds are little. There would have been an overview of society but limited mapping of actual places from what you describe.
This would be simalar to what occured with the _Keep on the Borderland_ where first persented did not belong in any known world. Since that time it has appeared in more then one world with a different location and history. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
Edited by - Kentinal on 18 Dec 2004 21:22:58 |
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arilyn742
Seeker
Ireland
54 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2004 : 22:08:57
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| Ah. I thank ye. |
Yonde iru, mune no doko ka oku de
Itsumo kokoro odoru yume wo mitai
Kanashimi wa kazoekirenai keredo
Sono mukou de kitto anata ni aeru |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2004 : 02:57:02
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quote:
Originally posted by arilyn742
Ah, but wouldn't the fact that in Abeir-Toril the Western gods of Faerun and that they control things are scientific fact through the whole animism that OA is based around out the window?
The gods of the Heartlands are dominant only in the Heartlands, and nowhere else. In Mulhorand, for example, the Mulhorandi pantheon is dominant, and the Faerūnian pantheon has next to nil power -- and vice versa. In the Kara-Tur, the Faerūnian deities have no presence and no power, because the Celestial Bereaucracy runs things.
That's one of the odd things about Toril. Regional gods are powerless in the region of another regional pantheon, and racial ones cover their race, no matter where said race is... The only common thing is that they all have to listen to Ao. Oh, and all were affected by the Time of Troubles, too, despite the fact that it was the Faerūnian ones that caused all the problems. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Seismo
Acolyte
New Zealand
28 Posts |
Posted - 24 Dec 2004 : 05:36:02
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Slightly off the initial post...
I followed a link to Wikipedia last night - it was hilarious how much FR and D&D stuff was on there.
I couldn't believe the amount of Primus material either...
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arilyn742
Seeker
Ireland
54 Posts |
Posted - 24 Dec 2004 : 11:40:32
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| Yeah, anyone can go there and write an article on pretty much whatever they want, so it has something on just about everything. |
Yonde iru, mune no doko ka oku de
Itsumo kokoro odoru yume wo mitai
Kanashimi wa kazoekirenai keredo
Sono mukou de kitto anata ni aeru |
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I was just on Wikipedia...
