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Kentinal
Great Reader
4688 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Jan 2005 : 20:38:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Im not sure I agree with WOTC view that LOEF is a PLAYERS book (The article was called 10 reasons for PLAYERS to buy LEOF) No players book should have monster stats in it
From WotC prespective, every player should buy every book even those that include monster stats. There are more players then there are DMs.
Besides perhaps a player might want to play one of those monsters as a PC so need to know the base stats *wink*
Yes, knowing the stats of something never saw before is mega gaming if the player uses the Out of Game Knowledge. Some DMs handle this by changing discriptions some. A black ooze might appear to be green, and so on. The dogface small humuniod might be a goblin, instead of a kobold (not the best example because the low level should be encountered fairly quickly) as ways to defeat the abuse of player knowledge magically allowing the PCs to correctly guess at the best type of attack, defense, etc. |
Edited by - Kentinal on 26 Jan 2005 22:58:49 |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2005 : 20:49:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Im not sure I agree with WOTC view that LOEF is a PLAYERS book (The article was called 10 reasons for PLAYERS to buy LEOF) No players book should have monster stats in it
I look at all those ten reasons' articles as just marketing. Regardless of whether or not LOEF ends up being considered by fans as a players book or not, WOTC most likely hopes sales are helped by calling it such. |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2005 : 21:29:47
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Yes, like City of the Spider Queen was a something all players needed to buy. 
I mean really, not for knothing by Lost Empires isn't something I'm going to rush out and buy because ALL the campaigns I've ever played were in "current" time periods. I hate to say it, but I've only ever played in 2 epic "campaigns" and 1 of them was a 3 day, 14 hours a day, playing beign of epic proportion, that started at level 15. Haven't touched the ELH since and probably never buy one.
I can't see myself using this book either. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2005 : 22:42:38
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Ah but Sir Urza it IS a book set in the here and now - so it can help your gaming campaigns in the modern Realms. It showcases the legacies of these ancient empires and is chock full of realmslore and dates, dates, dates. It updates Netheril greatly, gives some more detail on the whys and wherefores of the Crown Wars (just why did the elves hack into each other?), more stuff on Imaskar, and reveals more than a bit of hitherto undetailed or secret 'stuff' about the Realms. For the crunch-masters, there are the aforementioned look at mythals (perfect for your home defence needs), a discussion of Mystra's Ban, epic spellcasting and "spells higher than 9th level", new spells and feats (of course) and some very powerful NPCs. Plus, a whole heap more. You don't want to buy this? Sheesh, there's just no pleasing some people.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2005 : 22:57:22
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
I noticed this part
quote:
plus instructions for those who want take action to bring them (dead gods) back to Faerűn.
That should make many players happy who always want to bring back certain deities.
I'm more interested in the info on the dead deities -- I could care less about bringing them back. 
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
I look at all those ten reasons' articles as just marketing.
As do I. It's just cheap self-promotion. |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2005 : 23:03:53
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Bah, humbug... a book for Players, a book for DMs. How does one expect DM's to start off, without having seen the side of playing first... And any gamer worth his salt can handle the disinction between Player material and DM material when it comes to playing the game.
And besides, the most important part of the book is what George is hinting at. The fluff & crunch (no not the doggies) and the dates, dates and more dates. That is at least for me the biggest value add. |
Edited by - Mumadar Ibn Huzal on 26 Jan 2005 23:05:00 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4688 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2005 : 23:13:02
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
(just why did the elves hack into each other?)
I thought we know that already.
Detail might be useful however my scan indicates the following.
The Greys tried to take lands from the Black.
The Gold tried to take control of lands of the Green and Black.
The Greys backed the Gold effort.
The Black did not like this and sought defense/revenge.
Tactics used by all sides subject to question. I am sure by the end of it no race could claim the moral high ground, it is more uncertain as to which of the races had the moral high ground at the start of the wars. |
Edited by - Kentinal on 26 Jan 2005 23:17:12 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4688 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2005 : 23:29:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Bah, humbug... a book for Players, a book for DMs. How does one expect DM's to start off, without having seen the side of playing first...
Some were forced to start out as DMs, alas I have seen a trend that new players are recuited as DMs so that the DMs can become players. Of course the created DMs certainly need to read the PHB as well as the DMG.
quote:
And any gamer worth his salt can handle the disinction between Player material and DM material when it comes to playing the game.
Alas some players and DMs are not worth thier salt, both play to win as opsoed to playing a never ending game.
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2005 : 03:03:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'm more interested in the info on the dead deities -- I could care less about bringing them back.
Of course you're not interested...yet. I can see a new poll one day at Candlekeep. Which dead deity do you wish would return to the Realms?
quote:
As do I. It's just cheap self-promotion.
Every company does self-promotion. I'm not going to knock WOTC for the article no matter how amusing it is to read some of the writing within it. Interesting, is the author of this article the same one who writes the FR adventures that seem so generic? |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2005 : 03:46:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Im not sure I agree with WOTC view that LOEF is a PLAYERS book (The article was called 10 reasons for PLAYERS to buy LEOF) No players book should have monster stats in it
In a few more days there should be a 10 Reason for DMs to Buy LEOF, they have done a Players and a DMs reason for every book since they started those articles. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2005 : 04:09:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
I thought we know that already.
Yeah, but who manipulated and influenced first the Ilythiiri and then the Vyshaan of Aryvandaar ...?
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4688 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2005 : 04:23:47
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
I thought we know that already.
Yeah, but who manipulated and influenced first the Ilythiiri and then the Vyshaan of Aryvandaar ...?
-- George Krashos
Well the surface Elves say that the Drow manipulated the Vyshaan. The winners however tend to write the history. It strikes me strage that the Ilythiiri would plan to work to their own demise. There again, plans do not often go as well as they were planed.
It would be interesting to discover a hidden force that doomed the inocent and guilty equally alike. However I suspect the histrory will not provide much information on this. Maybe a creator race was behind it all or the Dragons, Lolth controling (at least for a time) Elven destiny certainly a canidate as well. |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2005 : 11:08:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
I thought we know that already.
Yeah, but who manipulated and influenced first the Ilythiiri and then the Vyshaan of Aryvandaar ...?
-- George Krashos
Well the surface Elves say that the Drow manipulated the Vyshaan. The winners however tend to write the history. It strikes me strage that the Ilythiiri would plan to work to their own demise. There again, plans do not often go as well as they were planed.
It would be interesting to discover a hidden force that doomed the inocent and guilty equally alike. However I suspect the histrory will not provide much information on this. Maybe a creator race was behind it all or the Dragons, Lolth controling (at least for a time) Elven destiny certainly a canidate as well.
Gold Elves have pretty much always tried to be pure as newly fallen snow when it comes to the Crown Wars and the Dark Elves being driven off to the Underdark.
Guess they don't like what they see when they look in the mirror. |
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Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2005 : 14:52:09
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Good Lord will this month ever END?!?!?!?
Must have book now!! Need for campaign!!!
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edbonny
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
157 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2005 : 20:01:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Elf_Friend
Good Lord will this month ever END?!?!?!?
Must have book now!! Need for campaign!!!
Does anyone know when LEOF is coming out? I am rather excited about it, too.
- Ed |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4688 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2005 : 20:12:15
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quote:
Originally posted by edbonny
Does anyone know when LEOF is coming out? I am rather excited about it, too.
- Ed
"Release Date February 2005" |
Edited by - Kentinal on 27 Jan 2005 20:13:28 |
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edbonny
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
157 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2005 : 20:45:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
[quote]
"Release Date February 2005"
You wouldn't happen to have a day to pair up with that month, would you?
- Ed |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4688 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2005 : 20:53:10
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Even Amazon does not yet have actual release date.
Nor could I find it of WotC site, though a date might be there someplace. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2005 : 23:00:59
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| Im going to ring WOTC Australia today and see if i can wrangle a release date out of them |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2005 : 05:47:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Im going to ring WOTC Australia today and see if i can wrangle a release date out of them
I'll be interested to hear what they say to you.
The reply I received from them about six days ago suggested that the actual release date in Australia was still rather nebulous...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2005 : 05:52:46
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| if they'd ever answer there bloody phone Id tell you what they said! |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2005 : 11:17:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
if they'd ever answer there bloody phone Id tell you what they said!
I can tell you what they'll likely say... "Hold, please!"  |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2005 : 11:20:26
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quote:
Originally posted by edbonny
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
[quote]
"Release Date February 2005"
You wouldn't happen to have a day to pair up with that month, would you?
- Ed
I'll give my Local Game Store a call later when they are open in about 7-8 hours and ask.
They get material on release day, provided it doesn't get lost in shipping. Apparently WotC is afraid of people selling items before release date, so ship it same day on the release day. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2005 : 11:25:16
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| According to Tin Soldiers (a store in Sydney) supplier the release date for Lost Empires of Faerun is the 18th of Feb |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1715 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2005 : 14:46:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Tactics used by all sides subject to question. I am sure by the end of it no race could claim the moral high ground, it is more uncertain as to which of the races had the moral high ground at the start of the wars.
That was EXACTLY my intention when I wrote the sketchy history of the Crown Wars back in 1995/1996--Despite what they would have you believe, Absolutely No Elf Can Claim Moral Superiority About These Activities. Any attempts to explain away what was done is spin-doctoring. However, it's been so many millennia and with so much spinning done by every subrace for every reason under the sun (or under the dark, as it were), I truly doubt there's any power other than the Seldarine themselves (and maybe a few select high priests) who might have a handle on what truly went down.
Make no mistake--the Ilythyri were bad news and many of them (but certainly not ALL their subrace) deserved the fate they got. It's also assumed legend/history that the Vyshaan were bad news as well, though not among certain stubborn factions of gold elves.
By the by, I LOVE the fact that Rich Baker refers to them as the Vyshaanti in his books--He didn't even know of the Doctor Strange homage until I gleefully thanked him for it. (For those who aren't comics goobers like me or Wooly, he's the Sorcerer Supreme of the Marvel Comics Universe and the Vyshanti are among the powers he invokes to get his spells.)
In any case, the "truth" of what happened around the Crown Wars is (or at least should be) nebulous and cagey, allowing you and yours to build the campaign the way you wish AND have the backstory/legends that let you use/view elves however you wish. Are some of them still flagellating themselves with guilt over the Crown Wars or the Fall of Myth Drannor? Are they trying to get back to what they see as their rightful place? Are they willfully ignoring historical record in favor of their personal takes on how they see history? Does anyone else care about this beyond the elves themselves?
Looking forward to this product, but also knowing that most of the pieces are already in play. What y'all lack are dates or specifics, and those are always nice.
Steven |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Edited by - Steven Schend on 28 Jan 2005 14:53:17 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2005 : 16:13:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
According to Tin Soldiers (a store in Sydney) supplier the release date for Lost Empires of Faerun is the 18th of Feb
I've found my old email sent from WotC Australia.
In it, they mention that their "best" possible guess for the Australia release of LEoF would be around the 19th or 20th of February. So, it doesn't look too far off the mark...  .
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2005 : 16:22:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
(For those who aren't comics goobers like me or Wooly, he's the Sorcerer Supreme of the Marvel Comics Universe and the Vyshanti are among the powers he invokes to get his spells.)
And I feel like an even bigger goober now for even mentioning this, but those collective of powers are spelt "Vishanti" . I didn't mean this as a challenge Steve... it's just that -
Well, the only reason I posted this was to direct interested parties to a site that contains some fascinating facts on the Vishanti, taken from the three volumes of the Dr. Strange comic series.
And now, back to the Realmslore...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1715 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2005 : 16:57:34
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
And I feel like an even bigger goober now for even mentioning this, but those collective of powers are spelt "Vishanti" . I didn't mean this as a challenge Steve... it's just that -
Well, the only reason I posted this was to direct interested parties to a site that contains some fascinating facts on the Vishanti, taken from the three volumes of the Dr. Strange comic series.
KEWL! 
I'd never heard of/seen this site, so the link is much appreciated!
SES |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2005 : 22:44:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
According to Tin Soldiers (a store in Sydney) supplier the release date for Lost Empires of Faerun is the 18th of Feb
Aye, confirmed it with my Local Gaming Store. The 18th of Feb is release.
Curse you WotC, you are making us wait on purpose.
I think all Realms products should be released on the 1st Friday of the Month of release. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2005 : 00:51:05
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quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
According to Tin Soldiers (a store in Sydney) supplier the release date for Lost Empires of Faerun is the 18th of Feb
Aye, confirmed it with my Local Gaming Store. The 18th of Feb is release.
Curse you WotC, you are making us wait on purpose.
I think all Realms products should be released on the 1st Friday of the Month of release.
Actually, that date is better as a release date, for me. I've not got much spare cash this pay period, but I'll be fine on the next one (except for the money I've got to drop for Valentine's Day ).
And there's three other gaming supplements I want that are coming out any day now. They're not Realms supplements, but I think The Sage could guess at least a couple of them. |
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Lost Empires of Faerun contents page
