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Silvfana
Acolyte
Finland
20 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Dec 2004 : 09:42:42
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I'm not sure this is the right place to ask this, but...
Does goddess Mielikki have similarities with Finnish mythology's goddess Mielikki? Or is she even the same person?
I have wondered this for some time now and thought this would be the best place to ask.
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And like marked pages in a diary
Everything seemed clean that is unstained
The incoherent talk of ordinary days
Why should we really need to live
Opeth - Ghost of Perdition |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2004 : 10:08:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Silvfana
I'm not sure this is the right place to ask this, but...
Does goddess Mielikki have similarities with Finnish mythology's goddess Mielikki? Or is she even the same person?
I have wondered this for some time now and thought this would be the best place to ask.
There are half a Dozen gods in the FR cosmology that where pulled from Real world Cultures from memory
Loviator: Finnish
Oghma: Celtic
Mielikki: Finnish
Silvanus: Celtic
Tyr: Norse
Ilmater: Finnish |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2004 : 18:11:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Silvfana
I'm not sure this is the right place to ask this, but...
Does goddess Mielikki have similarities with Finnish mythology's goddess Mielikki? Or is she even the same person?
I have wondered this for some time now and thought this would be the best place to ask.
In the Great Wheel/Ring cosmology of 1e and 2e and 3/3.5e for Greyhawk they were the same deities but they just spanned multiple worlds (which was why they were called multisphereic deities), unless they were single sphere powers like most of the Faerun pantheon. Now with 3/3.5e's new FR Tree the deities that spanned multiple worlds are seperate and different beings from the rest of thier named counterparts and so each world has thier own Mielikki or thier own Corellon, etc.
Dargoth also forgot Tyche (greek) who became Tymora and Beshaba. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 07 Dec 2004 18:13:51 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2004 : 19:16:41
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
Now with 3/3.5e's new FR Tree the deities that spanned multiple worlds are seperate and different beings from the rest of thier named counterparts and so each world has thier own Mielikki or thier own Corellon, etc.
Which is a load of hooey, thinks I.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2004 : 20:00:37
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| Ed did take Mielikki from Deities & Demigods, but I don't know whether or not (or to what extent) he meant them to be the same god. I wouldn't assume characteristics of our Mielikki (or the D&D version) to be true of the Realms'. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2004 : 20:14:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
Ed did take Mielikki from Deities & Demigods, but I don't know whether or not (or to what extent) he meant them to be the same god. I wouldn't assume characteristics of our Mielikki (or the D&D version) to be true of the Realms'.
Legends and Lore actually according to the Old Grey Box and the Cyc of the Realms says she is the same deity as the finnish one. :) So with that in mind I would assume that he meant her to be the same as the finnish one. :)
And Wooly, I say its bullhockey as well but er :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 07 Dec 2004 20:15:50 |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2004 : 20:35:22
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| Deities & Demigods according to "Down-to-earth divinity". Ed would have bought it when it was called Deities & Demigods, before it was reissued as Legends & Lore. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2004 : 20:48:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
Deities & Demigods according to "Down-to-earth divinity". Ed would have bought it when it was called Deities & Demigods, before it was reissued as Legends & Lore.
That's nice but the 1e box set says Legends and Lore. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2004 : 20:58:09
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| Because Legends & Lore was an in-print book in 1987. I bet you US$7.50 Deities & Demigods was the title of the book Ed got Mielikki from. And isn't this the greatest discussion. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2004 : 21:02:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
Because Legends & Lore was an in-print book in 1987. I bet you US$7.50 Deities & Demigods was the title of the book Ed got Mielikki from. And isn't this the greatest discussion.
I know. I was just razzing you. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Silvfana
Acolyte
Finland
20 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2004 : 08:56:37
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Thank you all.
This was very helpful. Now I just have to get my hands on this Legends & Lore or Deities & Demigods then.
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And like marked pages in a diary
Everything seemed clean that is unstained
The incoherent talk of ordinary days
Why should we really need to live
Opeth - Ghost of Perdition |
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Silvfana
Acolyte
Finland
20 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2004 : 09:07:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
There are half a Dozen gods in the FR cosmology that where pulled from Real world Cultures from memory
Loviator: Finnish
Oghma: Celtic
Mielikki: Finnish
Silvanus: Celtic
Tyr: Norse
Ilmater: Finnish
I don't know how the names are written in FR stuff, but in Finland they are Ilmatar and Loviatar(or Louhi). I couldn't help saying that. 
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And like marked pages in a diary
Everything seemed clean that is unstained
The incoherent talk of ordinary days
Why should we really need to live
Opeth - Ghost of Perdition |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2004 : 10:07:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Silvfana
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
There are half a Dozen gods in the FR cosmology that where pulled from Real world Cultures from memory
Loviator: Finnish
Oghma: Celtic
Mielikki: Finnish
Silvanus: Celtic
Tyr: Norse
Ilmater: Finnish
I don't know how the names are written in FR stuff, but in Finland they are Ilmatar and Loviatar(or Louhi). I couldn't help saying that.
Dargoth misspelled; in FR, Loviatar is also written Loviatar. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2004 : 10:51:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Silvfana
Thank you all.
This was very helpful. Now I just have to get my hands on this Legends & Lore or Deities & Demigods then.
If you have a credit card and 5 American dollars then you can get it from here
http://store.yahoo.com/svgames-store/tsr2013esd.html |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Silvfana
Acolyte
Finland
20 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2004 : 09:04:08
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Thank you.
I'll have to take a look at that when I have time. |
And like marked pages in a diary
Everything seemed clean that is unstained
The incoherent talk of ordinary days
Why should we really need to live
Opeth - Ghost of Perdition |
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Lauzoril
Seeker
Finland
71 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2004 : 20:18:18
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From what I've gathered, Mielikki is indeed the same one as in Realms. Hence her calling name, "Lady of the Forest." It is the same in Finland as it is in the Realms.
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"Death to the enemies of Bane."
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NiTessine
Acolyte
Finland
34 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2004 : 02:47:16
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| The Ilmater of the Realms, however, has nothing to do with the Ilmatar of Finnish myth. He is commonly likened to Issek of Jug from Fritz Leiber's Lankhmar books. |
http://nitessine.wordpress.com/
Worlds in a Handful of Dice |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2004 : 03:11:45
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| Which in part certainly came from the myths that already existed. Transformed to some extent (if not extreme ones) by a fiction writer. The ideas have been around for a very long time,, interpertations sometimes offer a new view sometimes jus a distortion of source. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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the psychotic seaotter
Seeker
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2004 : 04:50:05
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I remember reading somwhere where Ed either suggested or said that the dieties taken from Earths mythology had migrated from Earth to the Realms due to lack of belief on Earth...or something like that anyway.
BTW call me crazy but I actually have grown to like the 'tree' idea. Partially because I was never a big fan of TSR trying to make so many crossovers from Spelljammer(which I hated) and Planescape (which I liked). So I can accept Toril being moved away from the old cosmology and given it's own. The only thing they need to do is a MOTP style book for Faerun. |
Run run as fast as you can you can't catch me I'm the gingerbread man...
The Arcane Brotherhood, Wizards of the Sword Coast. |
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Silvfana
Acolyte
Finland
20 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2004 : 09:06:35
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I'm much wiser now.
And that's of course only a good thing.
Thank you. |
And like marked pages in a diary
Everything seemed clean that is unstained
The incoherent talk of ordinary days
Why should we really need to live
Opeth - Ghost of Perdition |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2004 : 20:49:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Winterfox
quote:
Originally posted by Silvfana
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
There are half a Dozen gods in the FR cosmology that where pulled from Real world Cultures from memory
Loviator: Finnish
Oghma: Celtic
Mielikki: Finnish
Silvanus: Celtic
Tyr: Norse
Ilmater: Finnish
I don't know how the names are written in FR stuff, but in Finland they are Ilmatar and Loviatar(or Louhi). I couldn't help saying that.
Dargoth misspelled; in FR, Loviatar is also written Loviatar.
And if you really want to get technical . . . "Oghma" is the Irish Celtic, while "Ogma" is the Gaulish Celtic . . . .
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Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Alparon
Seeker
Turkey
67 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2004 : 09:40:10
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And my friends:
Ao is:
Ayas of the Turks!!!
the head god, got the idea? |
I am Cyric, the One and the All, God of Murder and Intrigue, Patron of Deception and Chaos, Prince of Lies, the Dark Sun, rightful Lord of the Dead, Cyric-on-a-stick, and known to some as "the Mad God." I welcome you to The Land of the Dead... |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2004 : 10:26:57
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| Somehow I doubt that connection. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2004 : 12:53:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Alparon
And my friends:
Ao is:
Ayas of the Turks!!!
the head god, got the idea?
I can indeed see some truth to this.
Ayas, as part of the Akaddian culture mythology, is regarded as the keeper of the 'old tablets with the words of fate'. Similar in respect and concept to Ao, and his possession of the 'tablets of fate'. However, that is the only real connection between the two deities.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Alparon
Seeker
Turkey
67 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2004 : 20:19:03
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| tnks |
I am Cyric, the One and the All, God of Murder and Intrigue, Patron of Deception and Chaos, Prince of Lies, the Dark Sun, rightful Lord of the Dead, Cyric-on-a-stick, and known to some as "the Mad God." I welcome you to The Land of the Dead... |
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Neriandal Freit
Senior Scribe
USA
396 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2004 : 20:48:25
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Gah! Damn Ed and all the DnD Creators! They're the reason Mielikki and all the others are there now! They took them and left us with this "God" fellow!!!!!
*Shakes fist up in the air*
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"Eating people is wrong...unless it's on the first date." - Ed Greenwood, GenCon Indy 2006 |
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Alparon
Seeker
Turkey
67 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2004 : 16:56:02
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mmmm...
what is "norse"(i think we have a S.L.I)?
S.L.I: severely lacking of english |
I am Cyric, the One and the All, God of Murder and Intrigue, Patron of Deception and Chaos, Prince of Lies, the Dark Sun, rightful Lord of the Dead, Cyric-on-a-stick, and known to some as "the Mad God." I welcome you to The Land of the Dead... |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2004 : 21:13:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Alparon
mmmm...
what is "norse"(i think we have a S.L.I)?
S.L.I: severely lacking of english
Scandinavian, only about 1000 years back. Think vikings (who did NOT wear horns on their helmets if any of the archeological finds I've seen is anything to go by ...) and variags (spelling?). |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2004 : 00:33:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
Scandinavian, only about 1000 years back. Think vikings (who did NOT wear horns on their helmets if any of the archeological finds I've seen is anything to go by...) and variags (spelling?).
Then where did they wear the horns? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2004 : 05:55:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Then where did they wear the horns?
Same place us modern-day scandinavians does |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2004 : 11:21:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Then where did they wear the horns?
Same place us modern-day scandinavians does
Dare I ask where that is?  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Mielikki
