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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Dec 2004 : 11:12:09
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
And no, the sea elves didn't "learn" magic from a single elf. Anarzee had started a trend and found a solution for the sea elves' weakness. She and the others that had been transformed mated with the other sea elves, which allowed these second generation children to possess innate magic like sun and moon elves. It was through this process that allowed sea elves to possess magic, not from the teaching of one elf.
I think this is probably correct and an explanation as to why the sea elves of the Trackless Sea have magic and likely High Magic now.
With respect to the Sea of Fallen Stars, High Magic came to these sea elves in a rather different fashion. Surface elves fleeing the fall of the ancient realms of Syorpiir, Eiellur and Thearnytaar used an artifact known as the Sashelan Glass to transform themselves into sea elves so they could emigrate to the undersea lands of Seros. They retained their grasp of magic however and obviously bred it into the 'native' sea elf population. Similarly, after the fall of Myth Drannor, another wave of emigrant surface elves used magic to transform themselves into sea elves and entered Seros also.
This is all noted in Steven Schend's all-encompassing and pretty wonderful product "Sea of Fallen Stars".
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
Edited by - George Krashos on 07 Dec 2004 11:13:17 |
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Lina
Senior Scribe
Australia
469 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2004 : 09:33:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Lina
I only vaguely remember reading something about the use of high magic about 10 years ago. Can someone point me in the right direction so that I can learn a little more about it?
Cormanthyr, Empire of the Elves, and Elves of Evermeet.
[/quote]Thanx. Are they out of print or can you still order them? |
“Darkness beyond twilight, crimson beyond blood that flows! Buried in the flow of time. In thy great name. I pledge myself to darkness. All the fools who stand in our way shall be destroyed…by the power you and I possess! DRAGON SLAVE!!!”
"Thieves? Ah, such an ugly word... look upon them as the most honest sort of merchant."
-Oglar the Thieflord |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2004 : 11:17:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Lina
quote:
Originally posted by Lina
I only vaguely remember reading something about the use of high magic about 10 years ago. Can someone point me in the right direction so that I can learn a little more about it?
Cormanthyr, Empire of the Elves, and Elves of Evermeet.
Thanx. Are they out of print or can you still order them?
They were both 2E products, so they're out of print. Cormanthyr is available as a free download, here. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2004 : 15:45:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
They were both 2E products, so they're out of print. Cormanthyr is available as a free download, here.
And for a fee, Elves of Evermeet can be downloaded here. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2004 : 17:05:07
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
They were both 2E products, so they're out of print. Cormanthyr is available as a free download, here.
And for a fee, Elves of Evermeet can be downloaded here.
Or, if you prefer the print versions, you can likely find them on eBay. I'm sure someone else will chime in with suggestions for other retailers.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Lina
Senior Scribe
Australia
469 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2004 : 07:08:41
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| Thanks. I actually know a retailer that has some of the older out-of-print FR novels in stock. That's where I got some of the Sembia series from, in particular the Halls of Stormweather which isn't in print. Plus I think I saw Cormanthyr, Elves of Evermeet, a complete set of the Songs & sword series and the Moonshae triology. |
“Darkness beyond twilight, crimson beyond blood that flows! Buried in the flow of time. In thy great name. I pledge myself to darkness. All the fools who stand in our way shall be destroyed…by the power you and I possess! DRAGON SLAVE!!!”
"Thieves? Ah, such an ugly word... look upon them as the most honest sort of merchant."
-Oglar the Thieflord |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2004 : 14:09:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Lina
Thanks. I actually know a retailer that has some of the older out-of-print FR novels in stock. That's where I got some of the Sembia series from, in particular the Halls of Stormweather which isn't in print. Plus I think I saw Cormanthyr, Elves of Evermeet, a complete set of the Songs & sword series and the Moonshae triology.
Whoa, that's some good stuff, there. Clean off their shelves, chica!  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2005 : 23:17:25
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There was also a short story (I think it's in Realms of Infamy, because I know it's really old and I don't have that book) that describes the creation of the sahuagin by the drow back in the days of the Crown Wars. The reason the drow (whose name I forget, he also shows up in Evermeet Island of Elves) created them was he wanted to study sea elven magic. So he created a whole bunch of pearls to capture the souls of slain sea elven mages and unleashed his hordes.
What he didn't know (I don't think) is that with those souls out of circulation, magic ability began to die out of the sea elves until it was entirely gone. It wasn't until Anarzee's transformation that magic began to move back into them.
All that's for the outer sea. For the Sea of Fallen Stars I can see either of two ideas, and I can't decide which is more likely: 1) the sahuagin didn't focus much of the small(er) sea, leaving the original sea elven magic alone, or 2) the sea elves lost it and then got it back virtually immidiately thanks to all the Crown Wars refugees. Either way, for thousands of years after the Crown Wars, the Outer Sea had no magic and the Inner Sea had magic up the wazoo, complete with High Magic. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Senbar Flay
Learned Scribe
185 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 18:43:09
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| Hi I was reading through the thread and it seemed to eventually answer its qwestions about sea elves and half elves but waht about the Avariel can they use High Magic and the star elves must be able to since they used high magic to create that demiplane they live in right? |
Imagination is more important than knowledge for knowledge is limited imagination encircles the world.- Albert Einstein |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 19:02:06
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| I would say that the avariel could use High Magic (and most likely did during their golden age), but that any High Mages they might have had were killed off long ago. Remember, there's only about a 1000 left. I don't think that's a high enough population to support High Magi. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 20:27:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
I would say that the avariel could use High Magic (and most likely did during their golden age), but that any High Mages they might have had were killed off long ago. Remember, there's only about a 1000 left. I don't think that's a high enough population to support High Magi.
Or, at most, only 1 or 2 High Magi... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 21:37:58
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| Right. Maybe passed down from generation to generation from parent to most-worthy child. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Arlenion
Acolyte
36 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2005 : 17:26:52
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| I believe that in Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves( although I am not sure) it states that High Magic is a manifestation of elven unity and the support of the elven race for the individual. Very few half-elves would be supported in this fashion by elves as a whole and would therefore lack the ability to use High Magic. |
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Sandhrune
Acolyte
35 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 00:48:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
There was also a short story (I think it's in Realms of Infamy, because I know it's really old and I don't have that book) that describes the creation of the sahuagin by the drow back in the days of the Crown Wars. The reason the drow (whose name I forget, he also shows up in Evermeet Island of Elves) created them was he wanted to study sea elven magic. So he created a whole bunch of pearls to capture the souls of slain sea elven mages and unleashed his hordes.
That short story was in Realms of the Arcane, "Secrets of Blood, Spirits of the Sea" , by Elaine Cunningham. |
Edited by - Sandhrune on 01 Jul 2005 00:49:38 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 04:14:43
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| I'm still betting my gold on the Mythal in the Year of Rogue Dragons being of Avariel origin, thus showing Taegan that his people have a lot more depth than he realizes. It seems like it would make sense, since Dragons of long ago considered avariels tasty snacks that had the added benefit of giving them a good workout before supper . . . |
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StromLancer
Acolyte
41 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 04:22:43
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I'm still betting my gold on the Mythal in the Year of Rogue Dragons being of Avariel origin, thus showing Taegan that his people have a lot more depth than he realizes. It seems like it would make sense, since Dragons of long ago considered avariels tasty snacks that had the added benefit of giving them a good workout before supper . . .
So that means we may see avariel high mages very soon? |
Lead the war fate commands you to!
...but are you fighting the true enemy? |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 04:26:20
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| Hey, I'm just guessing, but that seems to my feeble mind to be the direction that everything is heading. If I'm right someone can buy me a bottle of Garnet Wine . . . |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 04:27:30
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quote:
Originally posted by StromLancer
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I'm still betting my gold on the Mythal in the Year of Rogue Dragons being of Avariel origin, thus showing Taegan that his people have a lot more depth than he realizes. It seems like it would make sense, since Dragons of long ago considered avariels tasty snacks that had the added benefit of giving them a good workout before supper . . .
So that means we may see avariel high mages very soon?
Interesting, Avariel High Mages? So that refers to what Taegan call "Avariel Wizardry"? |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 04:35:28
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quote:
Originally posted by StromLancer
So that means we may see avariel high mages very soon?
All things are posible in the Realms, though last time I looked the short life avariel just do not have enough time to even start to learn High Magic due to old age. Of course 3.x might have extended how long they live and the training rules have been droped. Also of course from all indications High Magic has been droped as well, replaced by Elven Epic Magic (still have not found any notable difference from Epic magic).
There also ha been asserted that 3.x rovides for rapid advancement that even the 300 expected life span would not pervent reaching character lvel to 20 (and beyound) wirh in a few years of game time. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 04:37:48
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| I know that gold/silver/copper elves generally do not start learning High Magic traditionally unti age 300, but I would imagine that Avariel traditions might be different, especially WAY back when the Mythal would have been created. Of course for that matter Avariel life spans might have been longer back then as well. |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1715 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2005 : 17:46:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Arlenion
I believe that in Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves( although I am not sure) it states that High Magic is a manifestation of elven unity and the support of the elven race for the individual. Very few half-elves would be supported in this fashion by elves as a whole and would therefore lack the ability to use High Magic.
Just remember this--the assumption on many sections of CORMANTHYR was either that this was lore of the elves about the elves or observations and writings by humans and others about elves. The idea that High Magic could ONLY be done because of elven blood is a sound one, but it's also just as likely to be elven propaganda to keep humans from repeating the same abuses the Netherese did after they learned magic from the elves and then going off on wild tears....
After all, in my mind, most elves (whether they realize it or not) have a parental sort of "we know better and are protecting you from yourselves" sort of attitude. Y'all have seen it--Khelben's got the same mindset 75% of the time....
Steven
Who knows that the truths behind the Realms (and life in general) are as slippery as an underdone eel hand-tart from Mother Tathlorn's... |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2005 : 02:51:16
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| Small wonder elves are a bit hesistant to teach other races elven high magic because of their parental mindset....still occassionally they got their hands "burnt" playing around with magic like the Netherese. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2006 : 20:52:21
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| Funny enough, I do not think anyone pointed out that Eliminster participated in the creation of the Myth Drannor Mythal, which is an elven high magic ceremony if my memory serves me right. That would have helped halfway through this discussion. |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2006 : 21:05:46
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| Elminster was in the Secondary Circle, which allowed those of non-Elven blood even in the old rules. :) |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2006 : 21:06:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Wandering_mage
Funny enough, I do not think anyone pointed out that Eliminster participated in the creation of the Myth Drannor Mythal, which is an elven high magic ceremony if my memory serves me right. That would have helped halfway through this discussion.
my sketchy memory tells me in second edition rules, the Mythal in Myth Drannor was a wizardly mythal? Why would Mythalanthar (sp?) have to ahve researched it if it was high magic? the Cormanthor mythal certainly wasn't the first mythal |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2006 : 21:37:31
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 Don't you have to research high evlen magic? Like from the notes of people who have used it before and to manipulate it into creating...mythals? I'm no pro so lemme know if I am wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.  |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2006 : 21:44:21
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No, Elven High Magic was traditionally passed down from mentor to student, if I remember correctly. Which was one of the ways that it differed from standard wizardry, and which was why, when some Rituals were lost, you couldn't just research them again.
And yes, Myth Drannor's Mythal was Wizardly, but it still required that the primary caster be an elf, and it still required other spellcasters to participate in it. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
Edited by - GothicDan on 14 Jul 2006 22:01:00 |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2006 : 21:59:09
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
No, Elven High Magic was traditionally passed down from mentor to student, if I remember correctly. Which was one of the ways that it differed from standard wizardry, and which was why, when some Rituals were lost, you couldnm't just research them again.
And yes, Myth Drannor's Mythal was Wizardly, but it still required that the primary caster be an elf, and it still required other spellcasters to participate in it.
Thats true..and thats thy non-pureblood elves could participate in the raising of the mythal in cormanthor..
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Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2006 : 22:01:50
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I'd love to know some of the mechanics behind the High Magic Ritual being used in Steve's novel, too. ;)
Yeah, I finally managed to procure a copy of it, and - as I always do - I skipped to the back and read a little bit. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1715 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2006 : 11:16:40
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quote:
Originally posted by kalin agrivar
quote:
Originally posted by Wandering_mage
Funny enough, I do not think anyone pointed out that Eliminster participated in the creation of the Myth Drannor Mythal, which is an elven high magic ceremony if my memory serves me right. That would have helped halfway through this discussion.
my sketchy memory tells me in second edition rules, the Mythal in Myth Drannor was a wizardly mythal? Why would Mythalanthar (sp?) have to ahve researched it if it was high magic? the Cormanthor mythal certainly wasn't the first mythal
Mythanthar had to research it as a wizardly mythal because he'd suffered a backlash as a High Mage and was stripped of those abilities to use High Magic directly. Thus, he tried to do an end-run around it by making what's now referred to as an epic-level spell.
All things considered, I think he did an okay job. At least his work's still around and getting better again...
Steven |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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High Magic
