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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Sep 2004 : 14:47:20
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Be brave Silhouette! I only encourage you to pursue your dreams, don't let people let you down, i started writing my book three years ago and i'm sure i will publish it, so why don't you? Go ahead and you will be surprised of the results of you hard work.  |
"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
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The Silhouette
Acolyte
25 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2004 : 21:40:39
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| I wasnt discouraged, I was more modivated to prove my worth...even though im young i am real good at writing and i dont care what other people think... |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2004 : 05:31:11
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quote:
Originally posted by The Silhouette
I wasnt discouraged, I was more modivated to prove my worth...even though im young i am real good at writing and i dont care what other people think...
*coughs* I'm sure you're "real good", but it might be a better idea to let others see, judge, and say it, you know? And I sincerely hope you do care about feedback/criticism, or you'll never grow as a writer. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2004 : 06:02:36
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I'm with Winterfox (something that's somewhat unusual  ). If you want to be a writer of any sort, you have to be open not only to criticism, you have to welcome it. Trust me, it's hard. Of course, sometimes the critics don't know what they're talking about, so you also have to know what to pay attention to.
For example, my father's gone over my stories, including the one I posted here. Now, my father's a gifted public speaker. He's actually internationally aclaimed (at least in national and international law and related fields) and has recieved awards from, ah, very high up. Unfortunately, a creative writer he's not, and none of his suggestions ever work. (The only reason I let him do it is because it lets me know when my point isn't getting across to people who aren't creative writers.)
Posting stories on the Internet is a very good idea. And it it's about the Realms, do it here. We've got a lot of people who've had experience, and while my favorites won't read your work (Ed Greenwood's busy, and Elaine Cunningham has a policy of not reading fanfics of stuff she works on), you can still pick up a lot of good advice from us regulars. Pay attention to Winterfox in particular; she sharpens her tongue each day before breakfast ( ), but she'll always have good points to go over. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Jemima Aslana
Acolyte
4 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2004 : 07:11:47
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"If I might add a few comments...
I too am thinking about making a career out of my writing. Some of my considerations concerned:
1. FR. As much as I love FR I find myself hard-pressed to write in it. I've written fan-fiction, yes, but there are simply too many things in the world that I'd prefer to be different. Now I'm creating my own, and will thus not automatically be bound to one publisher.
2. WotC. As far as I know they're not adverse to read through a writng sample if you send them one. Keep an eye on their site - that's where they announce 'competitions' for books. A little more than a year ago they had one up for a book about a follower of the Lady of Pain. Keep your eyes out for those and then sit down and write a suggestion. Though they may not be able to use your contribution here they will (if they find your writing to be of the right quality) ask if they can keep your name and contact info in their data-base for later use.
3. WotC. A friend of mine sent in a suggestion for the abovementioned book. The reply she got was that her vocabulary was far too advanced, the political intrigues far too complicated, and the characterization of people too extensive for the target audience. Now, I have yet to read that particular work of hers, but I know her general writing style - and it *is* more advanced than many of the books we've seen from WotC. So consider this too: the target audience is 13-18 I think - so if you prefer to write in Umberto Eco style you might wantto either change that or find yourself another world to write in.
4. Yourself. And your ego. Can you live with the fact that you won't be the sole owner of your work? Sure, characters will be yours I imagine, but Rasheman, Thay, the Underdark no matter which place you describe it'll belong to the wizards. Some find it wonderful that all can share in these worlds and work together on things. I would get frustrated because I wouldn't be able to change that one little thing that I need to change.
If you want feedback on your work some good places to go are:
www.fanfiction.net If you write in settings others have made and
www.fictionpress.net If you write completely original works.
Both sites are built on the same system and you can get lots of feedback there. I use them myself and I'm very fond of both places." |
Ia Ia Cthulhu Fthagn! |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2004 : 07:45:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Jemima Aslana
I would get frustrated because I wouldn't be able to change that one little thing that I need to change.
Or can't change on the fly; it's sometimes annoying to be boxed in by a plot feature or character action that you have previously established. I had that problem with the story I have here -- I had to retcon in a magic ring for one of the characters to wear.
quote:
3. WotC. A friend of mine sent in a suggestion for the abovementioned book. The reply she got was that her vocabulary was far too advanced, the political intrigues far too complicated, and the characterization of people too extensive for the target audience.
Now I'm interested. It's so rare to find a book like that. If she really writes well (and based on the fact that WotC rejected her on those grounds rather than on skill, I assume she does), I might buy a fantasy-with-political-intrigue book from her when she gets one published. The Shadow of the Lion was a page-turner for me, and it's heavy on the intrigue. Of course, that one was described by my sister-in-law as "boring," so perhaps I'm not the best judge . . . . |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2004 : 10:35:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
I'm with Winterfox (something that's somewhat unusual ). If you want to be a writer of any sort, you have to be open not only to criticism, you have to welcome it.
Unless, of course, you are Anne Rice, who thinks her works are so perfect, polished and brilliant that editors will only defile and mutilate them (hence, her books are published unedited). And who insults her critics with a rabid vengeance.
quote:
Pay attention to Winterfox in particular; she sharpens her tongue each day before breakfast (), but she'll always have good points to go over.
Ah, tell me, what do you think I sharpen my tongue on? *cue sinister laughter*
quote:
Originally posted by Jemima Aslana
If you want feedback on your work some good places to go are:
www.fanfiction.net If you write in settings others have made and
www.fictionpress.net If you write completely original works.
Both sites are built on the same system and you can get lots of feedback there. I use them myself and I'm very fond of both places."
A few words here:
On Fanfiction.net, if you are writing for a certain fandom, the amount of feedback you get depends mostly on the themes/characters/pairing. For instance, an excellent FR fic may go completely unnoticed (and get only one review in three months) because it doesn't include Drizzt; a mistake-riddled, godawful fic that includes Drizzt may well get oodles of praise. This is not spoken because I have anything against the character; it's simply a matter of fact. (If you're in LOTR, for instance, a fic that includes a Mary Sue paired with Legolas will get heaps of reviews.) Networking and advertising are, of course, important. So have no shame, and plug your writing away at all appropriate opportunities. Quality of writing is a factor, but only vaguely.
(And no, before anyone asks or assumes, I'm not saying this because I'm bitter and my writings on FF.net receive no attention. I consider the number of regular readers and feedback I get for my ongoing novel-length fic more than satisfactory, thank you very much.)
Fictionpress.com isn't as updated and polished as FF.net, and lacks many features of its sister site. This is, I think, largely due to the fact that FF.net is by and large more popular. I can't say much about the feedback here, because I don't post much on FP.com -- the essays I have up there happen to get a disproportionately large amount of reviews, but I acknowledge that it's probably due to my subject matter than anything. |
Edited by - Winterfox on 21 Sep 2004 10:38:15 |
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Jemima Aslana
Acolyte
4 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2004 : 11:13:51
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Indeed, many people will review with prejudice. But there's also bound to be some sensible reviews. And if just 1 out of 10 is useful, constructive criticism I'll be happy - especially if the alternative is not posting it anywhere at all and not getting any feedback whatsoever.
I'll have to add one thing though. A Mary-Sue pairing with Legolas won't just get praise. One third of the reviews will be nonsensical praise, another third will be nonsensical flames and the last third will be anything from soemwhat useful comments to invaluable advice.
Oh and Winterfox... you wouldn't happen to be a ff.net user under that same screenname would you? 'Cause I seem to recall a review to an FR story of mine from a person by that name :P Don't bother looking for the story, though, it's been taken down. |
Ia Ia Cthulhu Fthagn! |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2004 : 13:57:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Jemima Aslana
Indeed, many people will review with prejudice. But there's also bound to be some sensible reviews. And if just 1 out of 10 is useful, constructive criticism I'll be happy - especially if the alternative is not posting it anywhere at all and not getting any feedback whatsoever.
Oh, I agree. I have the rare fortune of receiving (mostly) reviews that are not just one-liners like "Omg that was cool write more!11!" Detailed feedback is lovely. Thus, I cherish my reviewers (ones that review at FF.net or in ICQ/MSN alike), and cherish my beta-reader even more.
quote:
I'll have to add one thing though. A Mary-Sue pairing with Legolas won't just get praise. One third of the reviews will be nonsensical praise, another third will be nonsensical flames and the last third will be anything from soemwhat useful comments to invaluable advice.
Depends. Sometimes the mindless praise outweighs everything else. Sometimes, if the fic is mind-bendingly godawful enough, the flames will outweigh everything else. And there are those "highschool fics" -- which sane readers and decent critics simply don't touch, and therefore, they're filled to the brim with brain-deficient, gushing reviews.
The LOTR section at FF.net is lost and doomed, anyway. The mountain of craptastic, rancid garbage is overwhelming, and one has to wade through hundreds of fic to find anything remotely decent.
quote:
Oh and Winterfox... you wouldn't happen to be a ff.net user under that same screenname would you? 'Cause I seem to recall a review to an FR story of mine from a person by that name :P Don't bother looking for the story, though, it's been taken down.
One and the same. |
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The Silhouette
Acolyte
25 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2004 : 22:42:49
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| I do take criticism, though I sometimes take it a bit too far, and make it seem worse than it really is...and I do find the whole Toril writting a mite bit hard...so I have began generating a world of my own. I find that because I made it, its much easier to follow for me, so that I can have the material that I need. So, in the mean time I am going to work hard so that I can get it posted up here and get some criticism to improve (if possible). I'm not sure when I'll get it up though, because it does take a bit of time to write one chapter...with the editing and making sure it all fits all nice and neat together...so...yeah. |
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Deverien Valandil
Seeker
73 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2004 : 23:09:14
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quote:
Originally posted by The Silhouette
I do find the whole Toril writting a mite bit hard...so I have began generating a world of my own. I find that because I made it, its much easier to follow for me, so that I can have the material that I need.
Good idea, good idea.
Personally, I find it is easier to get started in writing when you work with your own creations. A story that I'm working on right now, though it takes place in the FR universe, only involves original characters.
Frankly, I can't see why about 80% of the FR writers on FF.net are all so obsessed with writing half-baked fluff stories about Drizzt/Entreri/Jarlaxle. |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2004 : 05:34:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Deverien Valandil
Frankly, I can't see why about 80% of the FR writers on FF.net are all so obsessed with writing half-baked fluff stories about Drizzt/Entreri/Jarlaxle.
*shrugs* Mostly because that's all they know about FR -- Drizzt novels. They know diddly-squat about anything else, so that's all they can write about. I think most of those fic-writers are female and are responsible for the gag-worthy fluff. (The male ones are more prone to write Stus that, yea indeedy, outshine Drizzt's skills/talents/angst.) And since most of them are young, inexperienced, careless/lazy, or all of the above, they don't want to expand their knowledge about FR or do research into the source material.
(Mind you, I've read one good fic that features Drizzt and Liriel, plus a cameo from Arilyn and Danilo. And there was a brilliant parody, called Starless Twelfth Night. And there's a novel-length Zaknafein-centric fic, which I've heard is excellent -- never read it myself due to a lack of interest. But as in all else, Sturgeon's Law applies, and these are the tiny minority.) |
Edited by - Winterfox on 23 Sep 2004 05:39:34 |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2004 : 16:57:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Winterfox
(Mind you, I've read one good fic that features Drizzt and Liriel, plus a cameo from Arilyn and Danilo...
Link?  |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2004 : 03:37:19
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Winterfox
(Mind you, I've read one good fic that features Drizzt and Liriel, plus a cameo from Arilyn and Danilo...
Link?
Dark Companion. (The author admits it's not her best work, and the writing could use some polish in places, but hey, it's a fun braincandy-type read. It's written some time ago, way before the release of The Windwalker, so there are canonical inaccuracies.) |
Edited by - Winterfox on 24 Sep 2004 03:38:19 |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2004 : 06:43:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Winterfox
Dark Companion. (The author admits it's not her best work, and the writing could use some polish in places, but hey, it's a fun braincandy-type read. It's written some time ago, way before the release of The Windwalker, so there are canonical inaccuracies.)
Gracias Winterfox. That site looks familiar. I wonder if it's where I read a fanfic about Corellon and Eilistrae's parting that was a basis for an outstanding piece of artwork? |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2004 : 08:47:45
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Gracias Winterfox. That site looks familiar. I wonder if it's where I read a fanfic about Corellon and Eilistrae's parting that was a basis for an outstanding piece of artwork?
Yes, that fic's also hosted on the same site. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2004 : 17:09:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Winterfox
Yes, that fic's also hosted on the same site.
Thank you again, this time for helping me realize senility is not approaching just yet (And don't even think of making one comment,WR!).
Have you seen the image that was created based on the story? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2004 : 18:09:19
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Thank you again, this time for helping me realize senility is not approaching just yet (And don't even think of making one comment,WR!).
It's not approaching, my sarcastic friend, it's already hit you.
(I thought of making a couple comments, so that should exempt me from your directive.  ) |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2004 : 05:32:31
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Thank you again, this time for helping me realize senility is not approaching just yet (And don't even think of making one comment,WR!).
Have you seen the image that was created based on the story?
Yes again, on Elfwood. :) The image's lovely, although I was mildly startled at Elistraee's all-white eyes. |
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Gabriel_theArch
Acolyte
Turkey
5 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2004 : 17:43:38
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| Writing a novel based on Toril needs too deep knowledge... Because of the hugeness of regions and different races you can easily confuse. And another thing why don't you correct the Jarlaxle's name?... |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2004 : 06:23:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Gabriel_theArch
Writing a novel based on Toril needs too deep knowledge...
I disagree. All one needs is the knowledge of anything pertaining to the canon bits one uses. If you tell a tale set entirely in a dinky village at the edge of Sembia, then you don't need to know things like who Amn's Council of Six are, or how many Manshoons are still around, or anything like that. If you write a tale set entirely in Waterdeep, then you need to know that city. But if the story never leaves Waterdeep, then you don't need to know a lot of specific info about other areas.
It's all in the scope of your tale. If you only know one area, focus on it. Sure, you might need to know major events elsewhere, and about the gods, but other than that, you can focus entirely on one area.
According to a long ago interview in Dragon Magazine, the reason Salvatore decided to run with the Icewind Dale area is because no one else had touched it. So he was free to make it up as he went. Sure, the tale eventually passed thru Waterdeep, but it was only in passing and the City of Splendors was not a major part of the tale -- it didn't need to be, so the details on it were sparse. RAS didn't have to know much about the city, or who it's secret Lords are, or anything like that, because it was beyond the scope of his tale.
Know what you need to know, but don't worry about knowing everything. Even Sage Greenwood himself would be hard pressed to tell you everything that's happened in the Realms, and it's his world, one he's written many novels about. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Capn Charlie
Senior Scribe
USA
418 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2004 : 07:07:02
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I concur, wolly, assumption that each and every tiny tale has to be packed with lore typifies the assumptions I see of expecting each adventure to read like a sourcebook and have volumes of extraneous information to be realms related, or for any NPCs with more ordinary backgrounds to feel like they were forced into the realms because they weren't raised by archmagi, boned a goddess, and killed a greater power when they were teenagers, that I see so frequently with FR fans.
Sometimes a dungeon with some orcs in it is just a dungeon with orcs in it, and is just as FR as a complex with three dead gods, and enough uber npc walkons to shake a stick at. And the same can be true of a story, we nmeed not have info dumps of world history to prove it is in the realms, sometimes a simple tale of a simple place will suffice, and have realms feel, without a detailed history of the region. |
Shadows of War: Tales of a Mercenary
My first stab at realms fiction, here at candlekeep. Stop on by and tell me what you think. |
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