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Wood Elf Ranger
Senior Scribe
USA
627 Posts |
 Posted - 31 Aug 2004 : 23:55:49
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I've seen Assimar and Teifling classified as human subrace. If this is true then do most other races have outsider subraces? For example the Fey'ri would be a Sun Elf subrace correct? The Tanarukk an Orc subrace and so forth?
How about the Azer? Are they a Dwarf subrace or would they be Half-Elemental?
What about Driders, are they a subrace of Drow?
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~Lee N.
"Breaktime yes?!.. Yes?.. Maybe?.. Noo, baaack to work.." -Grovel the Goblin from NWN: HotU |
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Capn Charlie
Senior Scribe
USA
418 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2004 : 07:29:31
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Well, thePlanetouched templates have been a weak point of current descriptions, until I read some designed mroe generically for insertion into any DND game. THey were applications liek any template for any base race.
Since then, I have used this format almsot exclusively, applying the Tiefling and other planetouched tempaltes t oa variety of races.
Assamier Elves, Earth Genasi dwarves, Tiefling drow and orcs, and so forth.
As best I can tell, the Tanarukk, and Fey'ri are less of a elven and orcish tiefling, and more of something like what is about a 1/2 or 3/5 race that breeds true.
Indeed, I almsot have entirely scrapped the Tanarrukk and Fey'ri stats, and use modified planetouched and half fiend templates on normal orcs and slightly modified elves to get it.
Thus far, the Fey'ri in my game is descended fro ma noble house, and is a Half fiend, though he is third generation, (a goodly time, since these ARE elves) he retains his mechanical stats as a half succubus(a modified half fiend) is due to that i nmy opinion the royalty of the Fey'ri are as obsessed wit hbreeding(or even moreso) than european royalty were, keepping the bloodlines pure(or in this case, impure) to keep their desired form and abilities.
And for any of those interested, I even have recorded instances(i nym game) of a Fey'ri noblewoman, upon finding she was carrying an son, capturing an elven woman and forcing her to breed with an incubus, all to provide her son with a bride with more desirable(ie stronger) traits than the available prospects that were becoming clsoer t otiefling (statwise) than half fiends. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2004 : 08:53:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Wood Elf Ranger
I've seen Assimar and Teifling classified as human subrace. If this is true then do most other races have outsider subraces? For example the Fey'ri would be a Sun Elf subrace correct? The Tanarukk an Orc subrace and so forth?
How about the Azer? Are they a Dwarf subrace or would they be Half-Elemental?
What about Driders, are they a subrace of Drow?
Something one should keep in mind about combining races as halfbreeds is that humans are involved in at the least 90% of the total. Why? Humans in D&D (and in most fantasy and even science fiction) are the most adaptable race out there. Not only are they the species that conquers all with the fact that they can change to meet challenges, they are also, for some reason, the ones that can interbreed with the most species.
In D&D, if you want to get a halfbreed, you generally need a human on one side. Now, you have the fey'ri; you have other examples. Humans simply have more. In this case, you have to consider numbers -- humans are the most fertile of all the races, save for goblinoids (and you'll find references by elves in 2e saying that humans must be related to goblinoids because of this); so, when you add up interracial pairings, humans come out on top simply because the other race will run into them more often. And then that fertility means that the pairing will be more likely to produce a child -- particularly if the mother is the human.
I've found that people on the Internet don't usually think about this, and try to work up a "fix" for the non-human races. Sometimes these are good -- I ran across an elf/halfling pairing (elflings) that was very well thought out in both gameplay and how it existed in the Realms. I also remember seeing (I think it was from Sage) a mention that if you wish to use a planetouched on another race, just turn the race into a template by raising the ECL by one.
On the whole, though, if you want to keep things making sense, you should keep the planetouched-type characters human-based. Yes, you have the fey'ri and the tanarruks. Remember -- both those races needed specific breeding to start up. |
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Wood Elf Ranger
Senior Scribe
USA
627 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2004 : 12:51:31
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Oh I'm going to make planetouched for all the basic races. And genasi as well. But my question is do they classify as subraces or are they new races in their own right? Because the planetouched only have celestial or feindish blood they are not full halfbreeds.
So what about the full halfbreeds? Such as the Draegloth (half Drow-half Fiend) Durzagon (half Duergar, half Fiend)?
I already know all the races and halfbreeds and such I want (above examples are just that more widely known examples of these types of races) what I'm asking is basically a question of classification. Do I put all these new breeds I'm making into a general planetouched catagory or can I put them under each base race as a subrace? |
~Lee N.
"Breaktime yes?!.. Yes?.. Maybe?.. Noo, baaack to work.." -Grovel the Goblin from NWN: HotU |
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Capn Charlie
Senior Scribe
USA
418 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2004 : 13:15:09
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Place them under...
Characters.
Seriously, the mixing of blood between an elemental and a mortal is not very common, nor is that of a celestial or fiend and a mortal.
I believe the "established" planetouched races are only considered races because they have a large enough population for sustained breeding. Any instance of the odd half blood popping up should be something special, something unique. Only isolated populations of halfbloods who intermix and thus breed true are really a subrace, and the ncould be considered a subrace of either of the progenitor species.
Since characters are already treated o na case by case basis anyway, there is no reason to try to codify their background into some larger whole. Unless of course that is integral to their background. |
Shadows of War: Tales of a Mercenary
My first stab at realms fiction, here at candlekeep. Stop on by and tell me what you think. |
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Darkheyr
Learned Scribe
264 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2004 : 10:36:45
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| Actually, all the Planetouched from the FRCS mention being descendants of HUMANS and OUTSIDERS. No other races involved... So there's no Elf-Tieflings, that'd be something totally different. |
silm.pw - A Neverwinter Nights Persistent World |
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Wood Elf Ranger
Senior Scribe
USA
627 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2004 : 11:56:52
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Right, they are called Fey'ri. I've solved the problem anyway. I've decided since these planetouched will be more common they will indeed be considdered as subraces in my world  |
~Lee N.
"Breaktime yes?!.. Yes?.. Maybe?.. Noo, baaack to work.." -Grovel the Goblin from NWN: HotU |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2004 : 18:18:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Darkheyr
Actually, all the Planetouched from the FRCS mention being descendants of HUMANS and OUTSIDERS. No other races involved... So there's no Elf-Tieflings, that'd be something totally different.
Actually this wrong, there are elven tieflings that are not Fey'ri. Most standard tieflings have human blood but there are some that have demihuman blood.
Player's Guide, page 191, "Planetouched: Planetouched are humanoids (not outsiders) with the planetouched subtype."
Demihumans are humanoids, so there are standard tieflings that have demihuman blood. And there was some in the old Planescape material also, they were rare but they did exist.
Rich also posted on 3/24/04, which is the last time I had this arguement with some one on the WOTC boards:
"Each planetouched race is really its own thing. It doesn't really matter what the humanoid genealogy is--you're a planetouched, and it doesn't matter if you have dwarf, or elf, or human, or orc, or whatever in your family tree.
However, there are a couple of exceptions to that rule. Fey'ri are clearly descended from elves and demons. Durzagons are clearly descended from duergar and devils. The existence of the fey'ri and durzagons doesn't imply that *every* humanoid race creates a planetouched derivative with unique characteristics--it simply means that some distinct racial types with tiefling-like derivations are possible. Some elf-demon heritages will result in "standard" tieflings, others (sun elves and succubi, I suppose, removed by a generation or two) will result in fey'ri.
It's really a question of "flavor" text surrounding the race. The racial qualities and rules are spelled out pretty precisely for all these guys." |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Darkheyr
Learned Scribe
264 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2004 : 18:51:25
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| Heh. How typical for WotC to change things again. FRCS clearly lists them as human + outsider. |
silm.pw - A Neverwinter Nights Persistent World |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2004 : 19:33:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Darkheyr
Heh. How typical for WotC to change things again. FRCS clearly lists them as human + outsider.
Well actually, they are changing them back to the way they were in Planescape. :) YAY! |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Question of subrace
