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Beowulf
Learned Scribe
Canada
322 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Aug 2004 : 17:50:57
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Well met!
I'm curious to know what folk think of such spells as raise dead and resurrection? Do they cheapen life/death? Particularly, are they too vague, permissive, and reliant on mere gross material concerns?
Personally, I think that the ways the spells work are too permissive ... allowing virtually any priest capable of performing the spell to restore life to an individual so long as the gross material body is present, and/or the body can handle being restored, ie. resurrection survival role.
However, what if a character doesn't want to come back to life? What if a character's deity is really happy to have them in their heavenly hall? What if the priest casting the spell is not of the same deity as the person to be ressurected? What if no deity or demon has any particular claim on a soul? Shouldn't such considerations alter, perhaps dramatically, the success of a raise dead of resurrection?
Thoughts? Further adjustment considerations?
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"Ill tempered the wretch, who laughs at everyone. He cannot recognize, as he should, that he is not without faults." the High One, Poetic Edda |
Edited by - Beowulf on 23 Aug 2004 17:58:43
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2004 : 19:43:02
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Fun. Depends upon the world. No.
Read the corresponding section in the 3.0/3.5 PHB. |
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Beowulf
Learned Scribe
Canada
322 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2004 : 23:50:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
Fun. Depends upon the world. No.
Read the corresponding section in the 3.0/3.5 PHB.
What? Okay. Sure.
Gee, thanks for the contribution.  |
"Ill tempered the wretch, who laughs at everyone. He cannot recognize, as he should, that he is not without faults." the High One, Poetic Edda |
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zolansilverspear
Acolyte
Turkey
11 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2004 : 10:12:39
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Well that is a huge topic you are opening. First of all if you put a high level cleric into every gods blasted big temple you have, then I think it cheapens life.
Generally I handle differently the levels of characters and their success in life. More often than not in the slums you can find a l10 cleric with very powerfull clerical abilities and none in the noble district.
Well first if a character has the mind power (or the lack of) for wanting not to come back to life, it is quite hard to force him into life again. Resurrection is no raisedead, in logic you are calling(ie not commanding) the soul to return to his body. There are quite a few ways for a person not wanting to live. A horrible death(ie through torture?) Old age etc. etc.
And (I don't remember where I read this story. Avatar trilogy? And please correct the names, mostly I will be wrong about them) after death all souls go to a some-kind-of-only-souls-can-enter doorway to the planes. For some time they just wander near the portal until its pull becomes too much for them. Once they enter the portal they come to the "Plains of Dead" where Kelomvor's agents gather faithless and false, and the others wait for the agents of their own gods to take them to their respective paradises. Well once a soul is in his gods domain I twould think he is prety out-of reach.
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Zolan "BeaR" Silverspear |
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Eccerion
Acolyte
Norway
12 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2004 : 15:08:33
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When someone on faerun dies their souls go to the fugue plane where they either await an agent of their deity or judgement. Those who have a patron god and have followed that gods dogma are collected by the deity itself or its agents and taken to whatever afterlife awaits them. The faithless (those without a patron god) and the false (who have a patron but havnt followed its dogma, like a sylvanus worshiper burning forests for fun), go to Kelemvors home in the city of the dead and are judged accordingly.
The spells capable of reviving the dead can only return a soul to life if it chooses to return, if the soul is happy where it is it dosnt come back to life and the spell fails, simple as that.
Note that someone who dies of old age cant be brought back to life in this manner or else the the heads of the noble houses of faerun would never die once its your time you dont have a say in it unless you got some potent magic or you become undead.
It is true that the raise dead spell allows any cleric of 9th lvl and a Wisdom of 15 (which most lvl 9 clerics will have), and 5000gp worth of diamond dust to bring anyone back to life. In theory.
However things need not always be that simple, all in all its the DMs call.
Some clerics might refuse to bring the dead back to life due to personal philoshopys or their religions dogma, Sylvanus and Chuntea clerics for instance are usally reluctant to do it since it upsets the natural balance of life and death.
Most faiths reserve the big time healing spells and raise spells for their own faithfull, if the dead guy didnt worship their deity, then why should they bring him back? let his own god help him out.
Clerics of allied gods will usally help each others worshipers out, like a Tyr cleric raising a Torm worshiper would be perfectly allright, but bring a cyric worshiper to...well pretty much any other cleric and you`ll be lucky if they dont send you to join him in the afterlife for the insult
The cost of the spell is also be an important factor, though most parties can scrape together the 5000gp to get it done, but bear in mind that 5000gp is the price for the spells component alone, and does not include extra for the clerics time, effort and eventuall add on for the recipiant being of another faith.
Some clerics wont cast raise dead for money, instead demanding the party perform a task for the temple, and can demand the PCs submit to a Quest spell to insure they carry out their end of the bargain.
-What if no deity or demon has any particular claim on a soul? Shouldn't such considerations alter, perhaps dramatically, the success of a raise dead of resurrection?
In that case the soul in question is a faithless and goes strait into the wall surrounding the city of the dead unless the raise dead spell is cast before that time.
It wont have any adverse effects on the spells effect however, though the recipiant might be looking into rethinking his spiritual life afterwards
If a faithless is enclosed into the wall of the dead hes beyond the power of mortal magic, the "best" way to get him back then would be to speak with Kelemvor or Jergal and convinse them to give him a secound chanse, good luck
Of course if some powerful being has claim to the deads soul and collects it at the time of death, the soul needs to be freed before a raise dead or similar spell will work, so the deads friends might have to litteraly go to hell to get him.
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Raise Dead/Resurrection
