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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Aug 2004 : 18:33:17
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Is it just me or has there been a lot of "comebacks" and "returns"?
First there was the resurrection of Bane. Then there was the return of the Shadow Enclave from the Plane of Shadows. A few days ago, I just bought The Rage and Forsaken House. Now even the daemonfey and Sammaster is making a comeback. To make things worse, only the villains are coming back! Is this a sign of the dark ages of Forgotten Realms?
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"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2004 : 18:48:02
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Is it just me or has there been a lot of "comebacks" and "returns"?
No, it's not just you. This topic has been discussed in some form before both here, if I recall correctly, and on the other board.
quote:
Is this a sign of the dark ages of Forgotten Realms?
I don't think so. Let's see how the events play out before calling it a dark age. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2004 : 18:58:10
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Is it just me or has there been a lot of "comebacks" and "returns"?
First there was the resurrection of Bane. Then there was the return of the Shadow Enclave from the Plane of Shadows. A few days ago, I just bought The Rage and Forsaken House. Now even the daemonfey and Sammaster is making a comeback. To make things worse, only the villains are coming back! Is this a sign of the dark ages of Forgotten Realms?
As SB states, there has been at least one other thread talking about this...
However, I should like to make a couple points.
Though it's not expicitly stated, if you look at Iyachtu Xvim's history, it can be said that Bane had prepared for something like this all along.
Shade: it's mysterious disappearance was documented in 2E sources, long before 3.x was ever inflicted on us. I don't have a problem with them returning, though I'm no fan of that trilogy of novels. I'm also irked about the fact that I thought WotC was gonna use this to explain some of the 3E changes (the way the ToT explained the changes from 1E to 2E), but they didn't bother.
The fey'ri: another bunch that came back during the days of 2E -- it's just now that we're seeing them in action.
And the star elves are not villians, yet they've returned...
Plus, with the Thunder Blessing and the end of the Retreat to Evermeet, other goodly races are making more of a showing of themselves. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 22 Aug 2004 19:00:43 |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2004 : 19:00:41
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Well, look at all these events happening. The villains are getting more and more powerful while the good guys like King Azoun IV are dead. The only heroes we have are the ones who foil a plan here and there but do not make a big impact in the Realms.
EDIT:
Wooly, it just seems that like over the course of 3-4 years (Faerunian time), that all these villains are re-appearing. It seems to change the balance of good and evil on Faerun quite a bit. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
Edited by - DDH_101 on 22 Aug 2004 19:04:13 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2004 : 19:10:17
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Well, look at all these events happening. The villains are getting more and more powerful while the good guys like King Azoun IV are dead. The only heroes we have are the ones who foil a plan here and there but do not make a big impact in the Realms.
Part of the problem lies in the old Code of Ethics TSR used to force on it's writers, and how that helped shape the Realms. Previously, evil could never be ascendant, and could never reap long-term benefits from evil acts.
So now we have villians who are effective, and who can get things done. Sure, it gives a darker cast to the Realms, but I think it more realistic than evil constantly falling flat on its face. Previously, the good guys didn't have to do all that much to thwart most evil plots.
Further, I don't think we've had enough time to really let the good guys shine, at least in this new incarnation. Talk to me again after the end of the Rage of Dragons, or the Last Mythal trilogy.
But the white hats have been able to have lasting impact -- after all, the Shades would have left the rest of Faerūn in famine for decades, had they not been stopped by heroes. Is that not a big enough impact for you?
Oh, and I, personally, was glad to see Azoun IV die. He was too much of an ideal ruler for me to really buy. I know he chased every woman in sight, but other than that, he was the perfect benevolent monarch -- and I just didn't think that was terribly realistic. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2004 : 19:17:23
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
EDIT:
Wooly, it just seems that like over the course of 3-4 years (Faerunian time), that all these villains are re-appearing. It seems to change the balance of good and evil on Faerun quite a bit.
I do agree that it seems like a lot to happen in a short timespan, but I think it's more of a flexing of legs now that the old Code of Ethics is gone. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2004 : 19:51:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Well, look at all these events happening. The villains are getting more and more powerful while the good guys like King Azoun IV are dead. The only heroes we have are the ones who foil a plan here and there but do not make a big impact in the Realms.
Part of the problem lies in the old Code of Ethics TSR used to force on it's writers, and how that helped shape the Realms. Previously, evil could never be ascendant, and could never reap long-term benefits from evil acts.
So now we have villians who are effective, and who can get things done. Sure, it gives a darker cast to the Realms, but I think it more realistic than evil constantly falling flat on its face. Previously, the good guys didn't have to do all that much to thwart most evil plots.
Further, I don't think we've had enough time to really let the good guys shine, at least in this new incarnation. Talk to me again after the end of the Rage of Dragons, or the Last Mythal trilogy.
But the white hats have been able to have lasting impact -- after all, the Shades would have left the rest of Faerūn in famine for decades, had they not been stopped by heroes. Is that not a big enough impact for you?
Oh, and I, personally, was glad to see Azoun IV die. He was too much of an ideal ruler for me to really buy. I know he chased every woman in sight, but other than that, he was the perfect benevolent monarch -- and I just didn't think that was terribly realistic.
About the Shades, yes it's a big enough impact but we also ahve to remember the destruction and chaos that resulted from their return which outweighs more than the heroes' accomplishments.
As for Azoun IV, ya it was his time but I expected Cormyr to become strong again, not become weaker with civil wars and plotting nobles. I myself liked Azoun because even though he was the "classic" king that we read about in fantasy or story books. However, unlike other kings, Azoun here have weaknesses like his love for women which you mentioned. This made him MORE realistic as he tries to do the best he can for Cormyr as a person of good but also have weaknesses that good characters are not supposed to have. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2004 : 23:53:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Though it's not expicitly stated, if you look at Iyachtu Xvim's history, it can be said that Bane had prepared for something like this all along.
Yes, I've heard this belief put forth before and from what I recall scribes stating in other threads, it certainly does have strong evidence. However, do you think if we hadn't switched to 3e, Bane would have returned?
quote:
And the star elves are not villians, yet they've returned...
Yet....I'm sure in time some light will be shined onto that race's true intentions.
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2004 : 23:56:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Oh, and I, personally, was glad to see Azoun IV die. He was too much of an ideal ruler for me to really buy. I know he chased every woman in sight, but other than that, he was the perfect benevolent monarch -- and I just didn't think that was terribly realistic.
I don't recall ever feeling he was perfect, although by the time he perished, it was time to move Cormyr ahead under a new ruler. Next up? Waterdeep's Open Lord? Probably not, but he is getting up there himself... |
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Period of Comebacks...
