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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Nov 2005 : 20:26:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Crust
The Amalgamation was a bit odd. I was hoping for a clue as to just which god Golskyn prayed to (if any at all).
*nods* I wondered about that, myself. The book mentions "monster gods", but I wonder precisely who those gods were. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2005 : 14:02:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Crust
The Amalgamation was a bit odd. I was hoping for a clue as to just which god Golskyn prayed to (if any at all).
*nods* I wondered about that, myself. The book mentions "monster gods", but I wonder precisely who those gods were.
Perhaps a wizards.com website article giving a more thorough accounting of the Amalgamation Church might be in order? I'll talk to Ed, but given his superhuman writing schedule and the fact that this, unlike a dozen or so other projects, is not on deadline, it might be a while before he has time to address something new. But once we have the bones of an article, I'll pitch the idea to the folks at WotC. I'd like to have it sooner, but the most practical time to post something of this nature would coincide with the paperback release.
Alternately, the article could be broadened to address monster cults, with the Amalgation as a subset, and pitched to Dragon Magazine as a possible FR article. That sort of article might appeal, as it could readily be adapted to other settings.
I'll give the matter some thought. Suggestions/requests would be welcomed and appreciated. |
Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 05 Nov 2005 14:05:29 |
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hammer of Moradin
Senior Scribe
USA
758 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2005 : 17:21:15
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I believe everyone here would gladly look forward to reading this. I like the overall proposal, with monster cults being the focus, and the Amalgamation a part of this.
Hmmm... still haven't seen that check. |
"Hurling himself upon his enemies, he terrified them with slaughter!"
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
Candlekeep proverb: If a thing is said often enough, fools aplenty will believe it to be true. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2005 : 03:01:06
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quote:
Originally posted by hammer of Moradin
I believe everyone here would gladly look forward to reading this.
Indeed, I certainly would.  If you have time, Elaine, do follow through with your idea. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2006 : 01:00:29
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I just wanted to get a chance to collect a few thoughts on this book before I posted on it. I have to say it was really a good book, and I am sorry I didn't read it sooner. Despite the fact that we have a lot of nobles and Guildmasters and the like running around in it, this is really as close to that "common Realms folk" novel that a lot of us have said we would like to see, getting away from topics like gods and Chosen and the like and focusing on what day to day life is like in Waterdeep, and just on that level I really liked this book.
On the other hand, there were a lot of themes in this book that would be more than worth the price of admission even if it wasn't as focused on the day to day in Waterdeep, though those themes perhaps would have suffered if not coupled with this type of narrative. There was a lot about growing up and assuming responsibilities and maturity, and a lot about learning the difference between fatasies of being a hero and what it actually takes to become one. I really liked the fact that Beldar, the one member of the Gemcloaks that I assumed would be headed for the "dark road" even learns what he needs to know to grow and become the person he should be. I appreciated the irony of Beldar being considered the "dupe" by Mrelder, only to find out by the end that he really might be fit for what the Amalgamation Cult was trying to groom him for.
I really liked the idea that we got to see Texter and Peirgeron as good examples of what paladins should be like. The take on longevity magic was interesting. In a way, I kind of like the fact that there aren't hard and fast rules for it anymore, because I like the idea that there might be a trade off for long life, i.e. Peirgeron's slowed healing process. If I had one concern it was that Peirgeron did appear to be a bit too much of an invalid toward the end of the book however, especially compared to his ardent defence of the city when the saughagin attacked the city.
While I love books about heroes and good and evil, I don't always like "Hollywood" endings, where somehow if you do the right thing, everything works out better than what you could have dreamed. We all know this isn't how things work out most of the time, and doing so starts to ring false. What makes doing the right thing important is that its not always easy. Thats why I liked the ending, and how things happened between Beldar and Korvaun and all the others involved. It was an ending that wasn't sad so much as resigned, but with potential. I liked that.
Strangely enough, I liked the fact that Mrelder got out from under his father's shadow, but now I would love to see someon squash his aspirations, since he has kind of come into his own as a villain. I really like the idea that he was inspired to help his father, and started down his "dark path" based on the inspiration from Peirgeron, who was inspiring because of his heroic actions and words. I guess it goes to show that anything can be twisted and misconstrued if you are willing to do so.
Kothont's death was the most moving death in a fantasy novel for me since Sturm died in Dragons of Winter Night. And that is saying something.
A lot of good in this, and not a lot of bad comes to mind. I would write this up as more of a review, but I'm too big a fan of the overall work to be critical of it at all. Elaine and Ed outdid themselves, and Ed continues to amaze me by being able to co-write with a lot of different authors with very different styles (so far Jeff Grubb, Troy Denning, and Elaine that I know of). Really amazing finished product, and while I loved both of them before as authors, I really have to say that they have more than justified my faith in them with this one. Thanks to both of you! |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2006 : 01:12:15
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In the Realms, Ed has also collaborated with Rob King, on the short novel "The Diamond" (ninth and last of the "apocryphal, Volo-penned" Double Diamond saga). Ed has also collaborated with other writers, outside the Realms, on both game and fiction projects. And he's not done yet . . .
love,
THO |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2006 : 01:32:27
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| Sigh. THO, you enjoy leaving us all hanging, don't you? Makes me wonder how all those oft-mentioned love-making sessions ended... |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Thrasymachus
Learned Scribe
195 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2006 : 19:57:40
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I enjoyed the novel, but it took me till the very end to realize that is wasn’t going to be a Realms Changing Event where it would be a significant chapter to the History of Waterdeep. Where on one hand you have novels like “The Summoning”, “Rising Tide”, and “Waterdeep” (From the Avatar Trilogy) where you can pick those points out as having an impact on the city entire, and being discussed throughout the Realms entire.
If not for the size, I could have seen this in a format of “Realms of Waterdeep” where these same characters saw the same event from their differing perspectives, and FWIW I think that would have dispelled some of the expectations.
As it was I enjoyed the many references to lore, and to streets I recognized from many of my own tales as a DM.
I do see where this can be a starting point for a campaign in that the city still seem to be at a turning point, and this novel can be used as a launching point for just that.
Even as a minor Acolyte, dusting scrolls in the archives, I have to say I was tickled by seeing the dedication in the novel directed to this site, and it’s sages.
A big thank you Elaine and Ed for the novel.
*takes feather duster to the “Songs & Swords” scrolls*
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Former Forgotten Realms brand manager Jim Butler: "Everything that bears the Forgotten Realms logo is considered canon". |
Edited by - Thrasymachus on 15 Jun 2006 20:01:07 |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2006 : 05:08:11
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| Yes I agree whole heartedly. I enjoyed this novel, while not my favorite, I truly enjoyed having smaller players being the center of attention this time. Filled with good bits of lore and brief visits by powerful characters, it reminds me of many a day spent adventuring in - on - under - and sometime above, waterdeep. truly a city of splendors |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2006 : 12:12:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Thrasymachus
Even as a minor Acolyte, dusting scrolls in the archives, I have to say I was tickled by seeing the dedication in the novel directed to this site, and it’s sages.
Same here. I felt ten feet tall after reading the dedication. Thanks very much, Ed and Elaine. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2006 : 04:06:31
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| Yes, the dedication was very sweet. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2006 : 08:14:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Thrasymachus
Even as a minor Acolyte, dusting scrolls in the archives, I have to say I was tickled by seeing the dedication in the novel directed to this site, and it’s sages.
Well met
Aye, 'tis something we can all smile and be proud of, Thrasymachus, no matter what our rank herein 
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Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2006 : 06:39:28
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Finished the book on a long, long plane trip yesterday, and without preamble--
Waterdeep really did come alive in this novel -- vivid, breathing, and real rather than a Fantasia Generica city no. 567,456,124. It manages to do this without sounding like a sourcebook; as a reader, unlike gamers, I can't laud a novel for simply being a distributor of "lore" -- a novel's quality is in the story, the characters, the setting, the writing, not in that it can double as a DM manual. In the setting department, it more than fulfills the need and exceeds it.
But for the better part of the book, I felt that the story meanders, and the characters are too many. That's fine: it's amusing enough to keep me reading, even if it doesn't inspire awe. The plot as a whole is fairly unpredictable, and I found at least some of the characters engaging. I wasn't fond of the Gemcloaks and their horribly overblown dialogue, but I liked Lark and, naturally, loved Elaith's scenes. The Dyre daughters were so-soish, though Naoni's talent is an interesting gimmick; I wonder if she really could spin anything into threads, and if so, does that include organic matter?
I found it difficult, at times, to distinguish the Gemcloaks from each other (Beldar is the most distinct one, I think, but then, he drifts apart from the others); there are scenes where one's name could be substituted by his friend's, and I doubt most people would be able to tell the difference. (Isn't it telling that Beldar, who has displayed no talent of play-acting, can wear Korvaun's shape and nobody -- nobody who doesn't know who he really is -- notices? Taeros is completely fooled and they've been friends for years. What...?) To sum up:
Roldo is bland
Malark is bland and dead
Taeros is obsessed with heroic tales
Beldar is obsessed with his destiny
Starragar bitches a lot
Korvaun is vaguely nobler and abler than everyone else for some reason, and for no particular reason is seen as a leader after Beldar declines
And that is all. Each character is defined by one personality trait -- and is no more than that particular trait. This aside, they're pretty much the same. They speak in the same way, do the same things, and react similarly in most situations. I never understood why Korvaun, or Beldar, was looked to as the "leader" of the group. Neither struck me as particularly more charismatic, daring, or more anything than the rest. It'd have been more economical, I tihnk, to limit it to just Taeros, Korvaun, and Beldar with Marlark thrown in to be the token red shirt. His death, by the way, was barely noticeable to me. I sort of blinked and went, "Oh, okay." Can't say I was terribly moved by it. Korvaun's death was a pleasant surprise, though, given that he is one of the more important characters and poised to marry Naoni. I liked the ending overall, though I could do without the skip-around approach and the BOOM, since many of the short scenes tell the same thing anyway: people are panicking, bits of building are falling down, and can we please get back to the plot and the major characters?
Mrelder I found interesting, but only mildly. Golskyn's madness struck me as random; even though he exhibits signs of megalomania before, he starts off relatively sane. What triggered his insanity? It feels, to me, like a contrived plot device to strike some sense into Mrelder's head and get him out of his father issues. Not to mention that the megalomaniac villain type is... well, a bit dated. It felt out of place. Like an 8-bit sprite in a video game with modern graphics (or imagine, perhaps, a Baldur's Gate paper doll... showing up in Oblivion, walking around with all the other NPCs in all its 2D glory).
Say as much as you might about the editor smoothing things out, but EC and EG each has a distinct style. I could make an educated guess, I think, as to the cores of some scenes and who wrote them originally. And, sorry, but EG's pet phrases are hard to ignore. To wit:
Every time someone "sobs" instead of gasping
Every time someone "fetches up against" something
"Vast and dark and terrible"
I spotted at least once phrase that I recognized as EC's: somewhere in the prologue, where a sahuagin's voice is described as having "depth no human throat could plumb." So, yes, unless the authors consciously mimicked each other's phrases to confuse, it is noticeable. Occasionally, it jars.
I complained about info-dumps elsewhere, and am afraid I'll have to do so again, here. Nearly every time a character is introduced, he/she gets described in detail, all at once in a block paragraph. I don't get it. What's the hurry? Can't they come one bit at a time, integrated smoothly into the prose? Apparently not. Amusingly enough, by the end I couldn't remember what the Gemcloaks look like, and only recall vaguely that the Dyre girls have red hair, and that Lark has brown hair and brown eyes.
It's not a bad novel, for me, and certainly better than the last few FR novels I've read. It's an entertaining read, though I still maintain that the "cast of thousand" approach doesn't work too well with only this much plot and a book of this length (a duology of two 500-pages volumes, maybe). |
Edited by - Winterfox on 26 Jun 2006 07:00:57 |
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El Magnifico Uno
Learned Scribe
113 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2006 : 08:06:58
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quote:
I found it difficult, at times, to distinguish the Gemcloaks from each other
Unfortunately, that is too terribly true.. I read the book a few weeks ago and the only ones I can really remember are Korvaun, Beldar, Taeros, and Malark (cuz he had a building fall on him).. For the most part I found them mildly entertaining though, kinda like Musketeers but not as well done.. Probably would have done well to have just made it the "Beldar Show" with the others as just background characters..
quote:
Mrelder I found interesting, but only mildly. Golskyn's madness struck me as random; even though he exhibits signs of megalomania before, he starts off relatively sane. What triggered his insanity? It feels, to me, like a contrived plot device to strike some sense into Mrelder's head and get him out of his father issues. Not to mention that the megalomaniac villain type is... well, a bit dated.
Oh come on, how could you not like Mrelder? I thought he came off rather well.. Sure, not the most likeable chap in the world, but at least he had a personality, goals, and some relatively believable reactions (though having the monk/sorceror thing constantly repeated got annoying).. And as for Gloskyn, maybe it was just having weird crap grafted to him that suddenly drives him insane?.. It was alluded to a few times early on in the book, though granted the change from level headed to Mr Wacky happened rather suddenly.. Sure, the timing is contrived for the sudden plunge into insanity, but it wouldn't be "dramatic" otherwise.. On the flipside if he was wacko from the very beginning you'd be raising eyebrows as to why anybody would be following him in the first place.. True, he could NOT go insane at all, but then what would be the fun and character development for junior in that case?.. And hey, he's not just a megalomaniac villain, he's a megalomaniac villain with weird bodyparts! Ok fine, he's still a megalomaniac.. But at least he didn't hold any damsels hostage, or gloat about his master plan over a helpless enemy, so he should get points for that..
quote:
Nearly every time a character is introduced, he/she gets described in detail, all at once in a block paragraph. I don't get it. What's the hurry?
For readers with short attention spans.. Get all the info out at once so the reader can choose who their favorite character is.. Often used when there is a "cast of 1000's".. On the plus side it could be worse and each character could have their own stock descriptive phrase which gets repeated everytime they enter a scence ala Eddings or Jordan.. I suspect it's a pretty formulaic approach that publishers prefer since it does apparently sell well.. Thought I doubt you are quite what they envision when they write/edit for their intended audience..
quote:
It's not a bad novel, for me, and certainly better than the last few FR novels I've read.
Heck yeah! I'd say that Cunningham and Greenwood make a pretty good team.. Would certainly get me to read more of Greenwood's stuff.. |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2006 : 09:17:49
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quote:
Oh come on, how could you not like Mrelder? I thought he came off rather well.. Sure, not the most likeable chap in the world, but at least he had a personality, goals, and some relatively believable reactions (though having the monk/sorceror thing constantly repeated got annoying)..
I didn't dislike him, but I didn't love him, either. It's strange; normally, he'd be the kind of characters I would take to. But something about him doesn't grab me, and I think I'd have respected him more as a character if he could work out his daddy-issues without needing assistance from a convenient plot device.
quote:
For readers with short attention spans.. Get all the info out at once so the reader can choose who their favorite character is.. Often used when there is a "cast of 1000's".. On the plus side it could be worse and each character could have their own stock descriptive phrase which gets repeated everytime they enter a scence ala Eddings or Jordan..
Yeah, but I still don't get it. The stock descriptive phrase is certainly godawful, but on the other hand, couldn't we be told that X has green eyes in chapter 1, then black hair in chapter 3, and an ear piercing in chapter 8? Unless any of these things is crucial to the plot, there's really no reason to cram it in one place all at once. I'm also not sure about the "so the reader can choose who their favorite it right off the bat" thing, since these descriptions are often just about the appearances. It's an unfortunate fact that beautiful people are often liked more readily -- in visual media, like movies, anime, or graphic novels. In written fiction, I think, how someone looks isn't that important for a first impression. It just doesn't come through the way it does in visual media.
quote:
Thought I doubt you are quite what they envision when they write/edit for their intended audience..
Heh, probably true. |
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El Magnifico Uno
Learned Scribe
113 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2006 : 10:46:32
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quote:
couldn't we be told that X has green eyes in chapter 1, then black hair in chapter 3, and an ear piercing in chapter 8?
No! NO!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!! When she was introduced they said she had green eyes! She should have brown hair too (lush chesnut brown cascading in waves)! Chix with green eyes and chesnut hair are hot! This stupid book says she has black hair two chapters later! That's lame! An it says she's kinda plain and not even hot! This book sux! Screw this! I'm gonna go play Oblivion!  |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2006 : 10:57:57
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Would it be better if she were a transsexual with black hair and green eyes? |
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe
USA
804 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2006 : 00:24:07
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Well said. 
I once attended a GenCon seminar, years ago, at which TSR editors (some of whom didn't leave Wizards until recently) recommended to would-be writers the very description you've mentioned. If they wanted to get published in the Realms, that is.
I'm paraphrasing here, but it was something like this: "Whenever a supporting character first appears or reappears, or a main character reappears after any absence of more than a chapter, be sure to remind the reader of their Distinctive Character Description: hair and eye color plus something descriptive about their manner."
Honest.  |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2006 : 02:44:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Winterfox
I can't laud a novel for simply being a distributor of "lore" -- a novel's quality is in the story, the characters, the setting, the writing, not in that it can double as a DM manual.
Very much agreed.
And come to think of it, I can't quite remember who Roldo was or what he was like, myself (though to be fair, it's been several months since I read the book). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 27 Jun 2006 02:45:23 |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2006 : 12:52:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Winterfox
Waterdeep really did come alive in this novel -- vivid, breathing, and real rather than a Fantasia Generica city no. 567,456,124. It manages to do this without sounding like a sourcebook; as a reader, unlike gamers, I can't laud a novel for simply being a distributor of "lore" -- a novel's quality is in the story, the characters, the setting, the writing, not in that it can double as a DM manual. In the setting department, it more than fulfills the need and exceeds it.
That was one of our primary goals. Glad to hear it worked for you.
quote:
I spotted at least once phrase that I recognized as EC's: somewhere in the prologue, where a sahuagin's voice is described as having "depth no human throat could plumb."
Yeah, it's probably safe to assume that any text describing the tone and pitch of a voice is mine. My undergrad degree was in music education. As a former singer, I always want to hear what characters sound like.
quote:
Amusingly enough, by the end I couldn't remember what the Gemcloaks look like, and only recall vaguely that the Dyre girls have red hair, and that Lark has brown hair and brown eyes.
Okay, here's a couple of handy visual hooks:
Faendra looks like a well-upholstered Nicole Kidman, with strawberry blond hair.
Naoni looks a bit like a red-haired Cait Blanchard.
Malark looks like Hamish, Mel Gibson's brawny sidekick in "Braveheart."
Taeros looks a lot like this: http://www.epilogue.net/cgi/database/art/view.pl?id=28294, only with darker hair. And he's not quite as pretty.
Beldar looks a bit like Johnny Dep in his Jack Sparrow persona, albeit taller and broader and with less eye makeup.
Staragar looks like a young Professor Snapes.
No one really cares what Roldo looks like, least of all his wife. |
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Akukakk
Acolyte
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2006 : 04:04:33
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| ya, can't wait. from the sample chapter it looks likes it is gonna be good. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2006 : 09:11:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Akukakk
ya, can't wait. from the sample chapter it looks likes it is gonna be good.
You are away the book is now available in paperback, aren't you? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2006 : 11:14:14
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
Okay, here's a couple of handy visual hooks:
Faendra looks like a well-upholstered Nicole Kidman, with strawberry blond hair.
Naoni looks a bit like a red-haired Cait Blanchard.
Malark looks like Hamish, Mel Gibson's brawny sidekick in "Braveheart."
Taeros looks a lot like this: http://www.epilogue.net/cgi/database/art/view.pl?id=28294, only with darker hair. And he's not quite as pretty.
Beldar looks a bit like Johnny Dep in his Jack Sparrow persona, albeit taller and broader and with less eye makeup.
Staragar looks like a young Professor Snapes.
No one really cares what Roldo looks like, least of all his wife.
Nicole Kidman, eh? Now I'll have to reread the book so I can picture her that way . . .
Poor Roldo . . . given that we know what kind of temperment Cassandra had, and given that his wife is said to be quite a bit like her . . .
Speaking of Cassandra Thann, I haven't heard many people talking about that particular development, though when I first read it, I was a bit shocked. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2006 : 13:34:12
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
Okay, here's a couple of handy visual hooks:
Thank you. When I read the novel again, those visual aids will be fun to refer to. |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2006 : 14:25:56
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Speaking of Cassandra Thann, I haven't heard many people talking about that particular development, though when I first read it, I was a bit shocked.
Thank you. Cassandra was, admittedly, a scheming bitch, but it's nice to have her passing noted. |
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gss_000
Acolyte
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2006 : 17:03:57
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
Thank you. Cassandra was, admittedly, a scheming bitch, but it's nice to have her passing noted.
I completely forgot about that, and I'm sorry I did so! But now that you mentioned it, I really was somewhat moved when I read about her death. It made me sad to think that after the understanding if not reconciliation that occurred between her and Danilo in Dream Spheres, they only had a few years of this new, better relationship. Especially since I read the book around the time of Mother's day, it hit harder than it usually would.
Looking back on it now, I think this is what I personally will take away from my rading of the book, more so than any plot point. Thanks Cassandra and Ms. Cunningham, for reminding me. |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2006 : 16:16:59
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Speaking of Cassandra Thann, I haven't heard many people talking about that particular development, though when I first read it, I was a bit shocked.
Thank you. Cassandra was, admittedly, a scheming bitch, but it's nice to have her passing noted.
What did she die from? she didn`t seem that old. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2006 : 16:51:33
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| A little-known bacteria known as Scriveni Phantasticus Malignus(and no, I've never studied Latin) |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
Edited by - Kajehase on 30 Jun 2006 16:52:35 |
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Mazrim_Taim
Learned Scribe
341 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2006 : 20:05:14
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I just purchased this novel and am first suprised by it's thickness! With two names such as Elaine Cunningham and Ed Greenwood on the cover, that can only be a good thing. I honestly can't believe that Candlekeep got mentioned in a dedication, I was pretty excited upon reading that in B&N.
Well, there's still a lot of Saturday left so let me get to reading. |
And if the PCs DO win their ways through all the liches to Larloch, “he” will almost certainly be just another lich (loaded with explosive spells) set up as a decoy, with dozens of hidden liches waiting to pounce on any surviving PCs who ‘celebrate’ after they take Larloch down. As the REAL Larloch watches (magical scrying) from afar. Myself, as DM, I’d be wondering: “Such a glorious game, so many opportunities laid out before your PCs to devote your time to, and THIS fixation is the best you can come up with? Are you SURE you’re adventurers?” -Ed Greenwood
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Edited by - Mazrim_Taim on 30 Sep 2006 20:06:11 |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2007 : 16:09:47
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Honestly, I have the oddest impression that Elaine and Ed Greenwood are awesome writers separately but together they are less than the sum of their parts. I wasn't terribly impressed with City of Splendors and it combined with Khelben's death was enough to push me off the Realms for awhile.
I suppose my biggest issue is the "day in the life" nature of the events. Nothing particularly important happens in this period with the most interesting event in the sahuagin invasion being treated offhandedly.
The unsympathetic nature of the Waterdhavian nobility as the leads also made me want to reach in and strangle them. The only likable one ends up quite literally being pushed aside for one of the most repulsive little sleazebags in the entire series of the Realms novels.
Part of my distaste has to do with the fact that they could have expanded on the Paladin Lord (or his very interesting sounding daughter), Khelben, Laeral, or Elaith Craulnober. All characters with panache and screen presence. Instead, this group of selfish little twats and their vapid working class mistresses made me question whether I was reading about Waterdeep or 19th century London. If they'd all been stepped on by Godzilla at the end, I might have cared about them but....probably not.
So, I can't say this was a great read for me. There isn't even that much to say about the plot. On the other hand, Waterdeep really did come alive. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Edited by - Charles Phipps on 03 Jan 2007 16:11:46 |
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City of Splendors: A Novel of Waterdeep
