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Sirine Keyte
Acolyte
2 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Jul 2004 : 15:53:14
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I have seen both in the books, yet I do not know which really is the 'official' spelling. Does anyone know??
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"Matron, Matron! Rizzen hit me and called me a rothe!!"
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2004 : 15:57:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Sirine Keyte
I have seen both in the books, yet I do not know which really is the 'official' spelling. Does anyone know??
Don't worry if you get them confused....I've seen each spelling so many times I just refer to her as the Spider Queen.
However, the latest novel in the WOTSQ calls her Lolth. This spelling matches the spelling in the FRCS. Thus, I'd go with that. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2004 : 16:23:40
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Lolth, Lolth, Lolth, and Lolth.
1978: Gary Gygax establishes Lolth
1987: Forgotten Realms Campaign Set establishes Lolth in the Realms
1988: Bob Salvatore (mis)spells her 'Lloth' in The Crystal Shard; it sticks in his books
1995: 'Lloth' used in Elaine Cunningham's partly Menzoberranzan-set Liriel books
1998: Demihuman Deities confirms the rationalization that Lloth is a regional spelling of Menzoberranzan and Uluitur
~2002: Wizards of the Coast largely removes the variant as part of the effort to simplify spelling |
Edited by - Faraer on 14 Jul 2004 16:25:37 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2004 : 17:13:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
Lolth, Lolth, Lolth, and Lolth.
1978: Gary Gygax establishes Lolth
1987: Forgotten Realms Campaign Set establishes Lolth in the Realms
1988: Bob Salvatore (mis)spells her 'Lloth' in The Crystal Shard; it sticks in his books
1995: 'Lloth' used in Elaine Cunningham's partly Menzoberranzan-set Liriel books
1998: Demihuman Deities confirms the rationalization that Lloth is a regional spelling of Menzoberranzan and Uluitur
~2002: Wizards of the Coast largely removes the variant as part of the effort to simplify spelling
~late 2004: People still occasionally get confused about the Lolth/Lloth thing. WotC, in yet another pointless ret-con, changes her name to Louise Dark-chic. When fans complain, they are told "Her name has always been Louise Dark-chic, it's just that no one knew about it."   |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2004 : 17:48:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
~late 2004: People still occasionally get confused about the Lolth/Lloth thing. WotC, in yet another pointless ret-con, changes her name to Louise Dark-chic. When fans complain, they are told "Her name has always been Louise Dark-chic, it's just that no one knew about it."
It's a little known fact, but Lolth recently went silent in an FR novel series simply because she was tired of all the confusion regarding her name.
Sad, but true. Wait til Paul Kemp's novel and see for yourself. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2004 : 17:51:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
Lolth, Lolth, Lolth, and Lolth.
1978: Gary Gygax establishes Lolth
1987: Forgotten Realms Campaign Set establishes Lolth in the Realms
1988: Bob Salvatore (mis)spells her 'Lloth' in The Crystal Shard; it sticks in his books
1995: 'Lloth' used in Elaine Cunningham's partly Menzoberranzan-set Liriel books
1998: Demihuman Deities confirms the rationalization that Lloth is a regional spelling of Menzoberranzan and Uluitur
~2002: Wizards of the Coast largely removes the variant as part of the effort to simplify spelling
You also forget RA calls her Lloth over and over in the Menzoberanzan box set. But the rest are right, it's just a regional name of her in the northern part of Faerun.
Don't discuss this with SKR though cause he doesn't believe "Lloth" is official and he'll rant at you. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2004 : 18:05:57
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When the forums first started I posed the same question...getting no answers I did my own little bit of research. Faraer is actually the first to propose my suspicions on how the confusion started...but the origins of any being called Lloth/Lolth I believe outdate even Master Gygax(anyone know how his health is holding up since the "stroke" BTW?)
According to Angelic History, the name Lolth is a derivative of a being mentioned in Apocryphal texts called Lilith (remember Frasier's wife?).
From Godwin's Angels: An Endangered Species: "Lilith: The feisty, wild first wife of Adam, who spurned both God and his male creation is said to be Satan's favorite wife. While demons do live long they are not immortal but Lilith has the distinction, according to the Zohar, of continuing 'to exist and plague man until the Messianic day.'".
Different Canaanite spellings then morphed the name into "Lolth", and I actually caught sight of it in other texts of the same sort which refer to Lilith as "Lloth of the Lillen", the "Lillen" being her offspring which she makes by having sex with priests as they sleep.
......well....I think it's interesting...particularly when one looks at the parallels between Lloth's betrayal of Larethian and Lilith's rejection of God: both result in eternities in the Abyss, and both figures eventually attain new heights as demonic powers and Abyssal creatures, allowing them to continue to thumb their noses at the powers they once spurned...
But of course, Elaine Cunningham is just going to say that I'm out of my mind and that the story of Lloth's demise has nothing to do with musty old religious texts.  |
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2004 : 09:45:32
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| I've only seen her refered as Lolth. In many places, so games, novels and some D&D pages. |
"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
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"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
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Sarelle
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
508 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2004 : 12:54:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
Lolth, Lolth, Lolth, and Lolth.
1978: Gary Gygax establishes Lolth
1987: Forgotten Realms Campaign Set establishes Lolth in the Realms
1988: Bob Salvatore (mis)spells her 'Lloth' in The Crystal Shard; it sticks in his books
1995: 'Lloth' used in Elaine Cunningham's partly Menzoberranzan-set Liriel books
1998: Demihuman Deities confirms the rationalization that Lloth is a regional spelling of Menzoberranzan and Uluitur
~2002: Wizards of the Coast largely removes the variant as part of the effort to simplify spelling
Interesting - thanks Faraer.
quote:
~late 2004: People still occasionally get confused about the Lolth/Lloth thing. WotC, in yet another pointless ret-con, changes her name to Louise Dark-chic. When fans complain, they are told "Her name has always been Louise Dark-chic, it's just that no one knew about it."
Nice one Wooly.
quote:
When the forums first started I posed the same question...getting no answers I did my own little bit of research. Faraer is actually the first to propose my suspicions on how the confusion started...but the origins of any being called Lloth/Lolth I believe outdate even Master Gygax(anyone know how his health is holding up since the "stroke" BTW?)
According to Angelic History, the name Lolth is a derivative of a being mentioned in Apocryphal texts called Lilith (remember Frasier's wife?).
From Godwin's Angels: An Endangered Species: "Lilith: The feisty, wild first wife of Adam, who spurned both God and his male creation is said to be Satan's favorite wife. While demons do live long they are not immortal but Lilith has the distinction, according to the Zohar, of continuing 'to exist and plague man until the Messianic day.'".
Different Canaanite spellings then morphed the name into "Lolth", and I actually caught sight of it in other texts of the same sort which refer to Lilith as "Lloth of the Lillen", the "Lillen" being her offspring which she makes by having sex with priests as they sleep.
......well....I think it's interesting...particularly when one looks at the parallels between Lloth's betrayal of Larethian and Lilith's rejection of God: both result in eternities in the Abyss, and both figures eventually attain new heights as demonic powers and Abyssal creatures, allowing them to continue to thumb their noses at the powers they once spurned...
But of course, Elaine Cunningham is just going to say that I'm out of my mind and that the story of Lloth's demise has nothing to do with musty old religious texts.
It's all about interpretation - if to you it is a comparison, then your evidence backs it up very nicely. I certainly like the idea.
For me, I never liked Lloth - plain and simple. It just didn't sound as scary as Lolth. |
Chair of the The Rightful Return of Monster Deities to FR Society (RRMDFRS)
My character, drawn by Liodain: Sarelle / Sarelle (smaller) |
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Lina
Senior Scribe
Australia
469 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2004 : 11:30:45
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| Don't you just hate type-O's. It really gets confusing sometines. |
“Darkness beyond twilight, crimson beyond blood that flows! Buried in the flow of time. In thy great name. I pledge myself to darkness. All the fools who stand in our way shall be destroyed…by the power you and I possess! DRAGON SLAVE!!!”
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-Oglar the Thieflord |
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Dantrag
Learned Scribe
USA
141 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2004 : 21:07:04
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
~late 2004: People still occasionally get confused about the Lolth/Lloth thing. WotC, in yet another pointless ret-con, changes her name to Louise Dark-chic. When fans complain, they are told "Her name has always been Louise Dark-chic, it's just that no one knew about it."
It's a little known fact, but Lolth recently went silent in an FR novel series simply because she was tired of all the confusion regarding her name.
Sad, but true. Wait til Paul Kemp's novel and see for yourself.
King of Sarcasticness at his best, everyone |
" The truth comes out only in bold and underlined" |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2004 : 22:39:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Dantrag
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
~late 2004: People still occasionally get confused about the Lolth/Lloth thing. WotC, in yet another pointless ret-con, changes her name to Louise Dark-chic. When fans complain, they are told "Her name has always been Louise Dark-chic, it's just that no one knew about it."
It's a little known fact, but Lolth recently went silent in an FR novel series simply because she was tired of all the confusion regarding her name.
Sad, but true. Wait til Paul Kemp's novel and see for yourself.
King of Sarcasticness at his best, everyone
Which one of us were you referring to? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2004 : 03:08:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Which one of us were you referring to?
It has to be you, I'm a ray of sunshine not sarcasm.
I wonder if at the end of WOTSQ, Lolth will put forth a decree on how she wishes to be referred to henceforth. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2004 : 05:59:30
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Which one of us were you referring to?
It has to be you, I'm a ray of sunshine not sarcasm.
You just keep telling yourself that, my delusional friend. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2004 : 08:25:10
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If you want FR typos, just look at the fold-up map they included with the old FR9 Bloodstone Lands accessory. Absolutely awful.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Aldrick the Nightblade
Acolyte
37 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2004 : 16:19:19
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| Why would they even have two different ways to spell it in the first place? |
"Turn your face to the shadows, and let the sun fall behind you" |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2004 : 16:24:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Aldrick the Nightblade
Why would they even have two different ways to spell it in the first place?
I think the reason for the variations was explained in a previous scroll within this thread. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2004 : 17:27:05
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Aldrick the Nightblade
Why would they even have two different ways to spell it in the first place?
I think the reason for the variations was explained in a previous scroll within this thread.
I quote myself from earlier in this thread when I replied to Faraer: "You also forget RA calls her Lloth over and over in the Menzoberanzan box set. But the rest are right, it's just a regional name of her in the northern part of Faerun." |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Karesch
Learned Scribe
Canada
199 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2004 : 00:20:55
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Personally, I think Lolth just looks and sounds better as far as spelling goes. And to the best of my knowledge, it's the most commonly used way of spelling it. As such, I think I'll stick to that, however, as has been said, it could be interpreted as a regional spelling thing, and as thus both are acceptable in my books, however, as I said, I'll stick to spelling it as Lolth.
K |
Knowledge is power... power corrupts... knowledge corrupts? hmm...
Death is only frightening to those who haven't died yet... |
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Lolth or Lloth?
