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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Jul 2004 : 13:14:15
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No, it's not a funky new title for some Realms-based Dungeon adventure, but it is a question I've been thinking about lately while reading up on this nation in preparation for the new Shining South tome...
Now, onto my question - Whatever became of the wizards in Halruaa who advocated the conduction of experiments in magic? These were the wizards who were driven from the realm shortly after the civil war... The older 2e SS tome, says that they supposedly founded the nation of Thay, but we know that has little truth to it.
So, what happened to them?
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Capn Charlie
Senior Scribe
USA
418 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2004 : 13:44:18
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I believe they descended to the underdark, and have been amassing magical lore and power for their triumphant and evil return to the surface in the new sourcebook.
However, that is jst extrapolation off of the pattern Some around here have been seeing.
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Shadows of War: Tales of a Mercenary
My first stab at realms fiction, here at candlekeep. Stop on by and tell me what you think. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2004 : 09:27:06
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Eric noted in Races of Faerun (p.107) that some natives of Halruua migrated to Nimbral "early in Halruua's history". FR16 says that the civil war occurred "five centuries ago" which means that if FR16 is set in the 1350s DR (as it appears to be) then the civil war occurred in the 900s DR. I don't think that the 900s DR count as "early in Halruua's history" given that it was founded before 1 DR by survivors of Netheril.
Thay was founded by the renegade Red Wizards in 922 DR. So, I think it isn't too much of a stretch to say that perhaps the whole breakaway from Mulhorand was engineered by a dissident group of Halruuan archmages who manipulated the Red Wizards into being and formed the magocracy and realm of wizards that they wanted by working through others ... perhaps they exist yet - shadowy figures, working behind the scenes and controlling other supposed leaders of the Red Wizards ... like Szass Tam.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2004 : 15:27:52
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| Bravo. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2004 : 05:11:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Very interesting idea, George. 
Apparently. Eric and Ed liked it. 
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Capn Charlie
Senior Scribe
USA
418 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2004 : 06:59:45
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Oh man, I just hope that the red wizards current method of expansion and conquest isn't a manifestation of such a demoralizing litttle thayan secret.
I had just finally got a little respect for the bald headed evil freaks... |
Shadows of War: Tales of a Mercenary
My first stab at realms fiction, here at candlekeep. Stop on by and tell me what you think. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2004 : 14:12:50
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Eric noted in Races of Faerun (p.107) that some natives of Halruua migrated to Nimbral "early in Halruua's history". FR16 says that the civil war occurred "five centuries ago" which means that if FR16 is set in the 1350s DR (as it appears to be) then the civil war occurred in the 900s DR. I don't think that the 900s DR count as "early in Halruua's history" given that it was founded before 1 DR by survivors of Netheril.
Thay was founded by the renegade Red Wizards in 922 DR. So, I think it isn't too much of a stretch to say that perhaps the whole breakaway from Mulhorand was engineered by a dissident group of Halruuan archmages who manipulated the Red Wizards into being and formed the magocracy and realm of wizards that they wanted by working through others ... perhaps they exist yet - shadowy figures, working behind the scenes and controlling other supposed leaders of the Red Wizards ... like Szass Tam.
-- George Krashos
Well done, George... this is impressive .
I appreciate your efforts on my behalf. Thank you .
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2004 : 15:10:50
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Well done, George... this is impressive .
I appreciate your efforts on my behalf. Thank you .
No problems, although all I did was effectively "get on board" with your original reference and question. There are lots and lots of linkages that are possible in existing realmslore - despite what some people consider to be the "completeness" of the current, published Realms and perceived lack of elbow room. Everything (including changes from 1E to 2E to 3E) can be explained, usually to the benefit of the setting as it adds layers of complexity.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2004 : 09:17:50
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
No problems, although all I did was effectively "get on board" with your original reference and question. There are lots and lots of linkages that are possible in existing realmslore - despite what some people consider to be the "completeness" of the current, published Realms and perceived lack of elbow room. Everything (including changes from 1E to 2E to 3E) can be explained, usually to the benefit of the setting as it adds layers of complexity.
-- George Krashos
Actually, I realised that when I re-read some of the appropriate passages in some of the 2e tomes. It's not so much a matter of "writing" the material, as it is "finding" the best links between odd references. It's entirely possible for a DM - with a lot of free time, and a little imagination - to form a rich tapestry of Realmslore using the odd references and "linkages" (as you said) as the thread. Of course every DM's interpretation would likely be different, but isn't that the point...?
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2004 : 11:11:15
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Of course every DM's interpretation would likely be different, but isn't that the point...?
That's exactly the point. If the FR work is well thought out, respects "what has gone before" and builds and enhances without invalidating anything or anyone, then it's usually A-Grade FR work. However, we have to keep in mind that creativity is such an individualistic phenomenon that people will differ on approaches and what they like/dislike. Over the course of the published Realms, there have been a few writers/designers whose ideas I haven't liked, while others have seemed to be on exactly "my wavelength". That's not to say that the first group write bad FR stuff, it's just that I prefer other people's approach and interpretation. It's all a very subjective situation!
But good for the strength of the Realms, IMHO.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2004 : 17:57:54
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Actually, I realised that when I re-read some of the appropriate passages in some of the 2e tomes. It's not so much a matter of "writing" the material, as it is "finding" the best links between odd references. It's entirely possible for a DM - with a lot of free time, and a little imagination - to form a rich tapestry of Realmslore using the odd references and "linkages" (as you said) as the thread. Of course every DM's interpretation would likely be different, but isn't that the point...?
I'll agree with this statement... I did the same thing with the Dawn Cataclysm. Though it's been officially stated that they'll not nail down exactly when it happened, there's enough bits here and there to place it between 700 and 714 DR. |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2018 : 16:16:58
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Master Sage,
An interesting bit from "Serpent Kingdoms", p120:
quote:
Mhairhetel (Small City, 9,782): At the southern tip of the Mhair Jungles lies the City of Renegades. This isolated redoubt is home to outcasts from nations all along the Great Sea. Because ships fl ying any fl ag (or even none at all) are welcome at Mhairhetel’s docks, the city has become a port of call for pirates from Narubel and Yaulazna (the hidden Bay of Pirates in southeastern Halruaa), as well as a haven for slavers and disreputable merchants. The city’s reputation as a pirate port has so far protected it well against attacks from the sea. Hetel Hastalhorn, a prominent Halruaan archmage who
sought to exploit the hidden riches of the Mhair Jungles, founded the City of Renegades in the Year of Banished Wisdom
(–125 DR). Within a year, Hetel had vanished and the settlement was all but abandoned. But every year thereafter, new
immigrants arrived seeking a home far from the lands of their birth, and Mhairhetel slowly grew into a viable city.
For centuries, the yuan-ti tribes of Serpentes have found Mhairhetel useful. Until the recent alliance of the Se’Sehen
tribe with the Rundeen merchant consortium, the City of Renegades offered the only marketplace through which the yuan-ti
could trade with distant lands. Moreover, most humans of the Great Sea lands who are interested in exploring the Mhair
Jungles begin their journeys from this port—a fact that makes them easy to observe and track. However, the yuan-ti have always ensured that one of their own rules the City of Renegades, and that agents of the serpentfolk control all the hidden levels of power. The current ruler of Mhairhetel is Istasfi s Nsaran (NE male pureblood yuan-ti fighter 7), a member of the Jennestas tribe.
This was a real treat for filling in some gaps from such an elusive bit of material from the early years of describing Halruaa.
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
No, it's not a funky new title for some Realms-based Dungeon adventure, but it is a question I've been thinking about lately while reading up on this nation in preparation for the new Shining South tome...
Now, onto my question - Whatever became of the wizards in Halruaa who advocated the conduction of experiments in magic? These were the wizards who were driven from the realm shortly after the civil war... The older 2e SS tome, says that they supposedly founded the nation of Thay, but we know that has little truth to it.
So, what happened to them?
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2428 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2018 : 15:40:01
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There are two Halruan wizards with fame in wider Realms: Daltim "Flamefist" and Darsson "Spellmaker".
Darsson (Sen Darsson) is the son of an Elder (Darth Malson). He left after finding out his parents got killed by other Elders for stepping out of line too far, and wound up near Ravens Bluff.
Daltim during Gold & Glory time leads the Destroyers, a Halruan mercenary company (they worked in Tethyr, among the other places). Which point at another exit. Though Daltim himself is a loyal Halruan and also heir to an Elder position.
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People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2018 : 20:33:58
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| There was also Dwalimar Omen, captain of the Realms Master. And I'm sure there were others, living in relative obscurity. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2018 : 13:30:13
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Nice to see that it only took 14 years for my ideas re Thay to achieve publishable form. Prolific I am not.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2018 : 15:40:10
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Nice to see that it only took 14 years for my ideas re Thay to achieve publishable form. Prolific I am not.
-- George Krashos
Quality, not quantity. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2018 : 20:21:14
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Master Krashos,
hahaha....well good sir, I will have you know, I am a fond enthusiast of your works here on the site and beyond! I prefer to look at it this way: just as Scotch, some things take a while to age to a point where anyone and everyone can appreciate the end result!
This is actually one of the reasons I have gone back to resurrect old discussions: the works done by master's such as yourself and others should not only be recognized again, but discussed further, but used as a springboard to incorporate newer enthusiasts of the Realms into older foundational lore which is vital to a true understanding of this epic world!
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Nice to see that it only took 14 years for my ideas re Thay to achieve publishable form. Prolific I am not.
-- George Krashos
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Renegades of Halruaa
