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tauster
Senior Scribe
Germany
399 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Jul 2004 : 11:23:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Though I've not done it yet, I've been fiddling with an idea for a vampire NPC, and I fully intended to give him some slight "tweaks" from the material in Van Richten's Guide to Vampires.
Those books have much, much material that can be used in any setting to really throw your PCs for a loop. 
i strongly recommend reading the "vampire chronicles" by anne rice.
youŽll find yourself "looking through the eyes of the monster(s)" - an excersice i found very useful for roleplaying vampires, becoming acquainted with their views, their style of living (pardon the pun, couldnŽt resist), the way they see the mortal world or percieve good and evil. furthermore, her vampires are in some aspects different from the regular "adnd- suckers", so your players are in for some nice surprises... 
iŽve read and can recommend
- the vampire armand
- blood and gold (about marius)
- pandora
- the vampire lestat (great description of how vampires deal among each other!)
you can get them cheap at ebay. |
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2004 : 13:53:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Actually, I think it acceptable to mention the Van Richten's Guides here... Sure, they were intended for another game world, but there is a wealth of material in those books that can easily be ported over to the Realms. Though I've not done it yet, I've been fiddling with an idea for a vampire NPC, and I fully intended to give him some slight "tweaks" from the material in Van Richten's Guide to Vampires.
Those books have much, much material that can be used in any setting to really throw your PCs for a loop.
I can agree with that. I know that I like to use Van Richten's Guide to Fiends far more regularly in the Sage's FR games, than I'm likely to use it elsewhere. Van Richten's Guide to the Walking Dead has also been just as important for my Realms games, especially when visiting the typical dungeon that is infested with zombies and ghouls...
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"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
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Karesch
Learned Scribe
Canada
199 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2004 : 17:52:51
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Wow, seems this thread was somewhat busy over the weekend. I was away for a few days taking some time outta the city. Glad to see so many people are interested in such a tome. Hopefully more of you will add your opinions and we can eventually get the attention of someone who might be able to right this injustice of the realms
K |
Knowledge is power... power corrupts... knowledge corrupts? hmm...
Death is only frightening to those who haven't died yet... |
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Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2004 : 13:33:50
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I have yet to completely read thru a prestige class. They just bore me silly. I soak up lore like a sponge.
This has been brought up to people like Rich Baker, who after reading their answers the impression is that its never going to happen. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2004 : 16:09:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Elf_Friend
This has been brought up to people like Rich Baker, who after reading their answers the impression is that its never going to happen.
What exactly is never going to happen? |
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Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2004 : 16:15:24
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Elf_Friend
This has been brought up to people like Rich Baker, who after reading their answers the impression is that its never going to happen.
What exactly is never going to happen?
Increasing the fluff to crunch ratio. Sorry, was half asleep when I threw that up there.  |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2004 : 16:36:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Elf_Friend
Increasing the fluff to crunch ratio. Sorry, was half asleep when I threw that up there.
I would tend to agree. However, and I've only read through the first chapter and skimmed the rest, the newly released Serpent Kingdoms appears to have a bit more fluff than I expected or have seen in past FR offerings. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2004 : 17:09:58
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Elf_Friend
Increasing the fluff to crunch ratio. Sorry, was half asleep when I threw that up there.
I would tend to agree. However, and I've only read through the first chapter and skimmed the rest, the newly released Serpent Kingdoms appears to have a bit more fluff than I expected or have seen in past FR offerings.
And hearing that makes me move this one up to the top of the "to get" list.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Karesch
Learned Scribe
Canada
199 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2004 : 17:30:27
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I'll have to look into getting that shortly aswell. But I think the FR community needs to shout out loud and clear that we want more fluff in our books again. That the crunchiness of the more recent books is beginning to chip and break our teeth and we need fluff so we can gum it now that our teeth are all broken up. Maybe instead of bugging wizards of the coast anymore though, because they don't seem to want to hear what us players and DM's are saying, we should start emailing Hasboro's customer service or something, and telling them we want more fluff in our FR products. and perhaps hasboro will get sick of hearing from us, and put the word down to WotC that they need to start doing more fluff. Hasboro is in business to make money. lots of money. So perhaps if we can convince them that they'll make lots more money if they give us more fluff, they'll decide that they had an idea, they should put more fluff into the books, because someone recently overheard alot of players talking about wanting more fluff. so yeah, they think it'd be a good idea to put more fluff in. You know how it is.
K |
Knowledge is power... power corrupts... knowledge corrupts? hmm...
Death is only frightening to those who haven't died yet... |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2004 : 17:41:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Karesch
Maybe instead of bugging wizards of the coast anymore though, because they don't seem to want to hear what us players and DM's are saying, we should start emailing Hasboro's customer service or something, and telling them we want more fluff in our FR products. and perhaps hasboro will get sick of hearing from us, and put the word down to WotC that they need to start doing more fluff. Hasboro is in business to make money. lots of money. So perhaps if we can convince them that they'll make lots more money if they give us more fluff,
K
Only problem is that, unless recently it has changed, Richard Baker stated in a reply on the old WOTC board that a large number of consumers purchasing FR products are merely looting the tomes for the crunch. Thus, can you blame them for designing products with a great deal of crunch? They want these consumers to continue buying FR products. Plus, I've seen no large indication from hardcore FR fans that they plan to stop purchasing FR items even if this trend continues. Thus, right now WOTC has the best of both worlds if they continue designing products with an emphasis on crunch. |
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Karesch
Learned Scribe
Canada
199 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2004 : 17:51:15
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aye, I understand what your saying, and in all honesty I'd hate to stop buying FR products too, for fear that if the sales drop too much in FR products, they'll drop the line, and focus on there Eberron line. which would be disaterous. However, i was merely thinking, that if we organized an emailing campaign, to fill Hasboro up to the earlobes in requests for more fluff. they might just pay attention, and some executive lackey will bring printouts of a few thousand emails requesting more fluff to a board meeting and show them that indeed, people want more fluff. That we've had enough crunch.
K |
Knowledge is power... power corrupts... knowledge corrupts? hmm...
Death is only frightening to those who haven't died yet... |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2004 : 18:21:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Karesch
I'll have to look into getting that shortly aswell. But I think the FR community needs to shout out loud and clear that we want more fluff in our books again. That the crunchiness of the more recent books is beginning to chip and break our teeth and we need fluff so we can gum it now that our teeth are all broken up. Maybe instead of bugging wizards of the coast anymore though, because they don't seem to want to hear what us players and DM's are saying, we should start emailing Hasboro's customer service or something, and telling them we want more fluff in our FR products. and perhaps hasboro will get sick of hearing from us, and put the word down to WotC that they need to start doing more fluff. Hasboro is in business to make money. lots of money. So perhaps if we can convince them that they'll make lots more money if they give us more fluff, they'll decide that they had an idea, they should put more fluff into the books, because someone recently overheard alot of players talking about wanting more fluff. so yeah, they think it'd be a good idea to put more fluff in. You know how it is.
K
WotC has pretty much stated that they don't care what we want, only what we buy... So bugging them is not really an option. However, your idea of going straight to Hasbro has merit... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2004 : 18:38:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Karesch
aye, I understand what your saying, and in all honesty I'd hate to stop buying FR products too, for fear that if the sales drop too much in FR products, they'll drop the line, and focus on there Eberron line.
I understand those fears. However, nothing has been revealed to indicate that WOTC is considering this or would. However, yes, Eberron is the product that has been pushed and will be pushed the most in the near future. Still, I have no idea if this will affect Realms purchases or how we could even find out if such an event took place.
quote:
which would be disaterous.
No argument there. But, I don't think it's a change that will take place in the near future. Even if WOTC were considering downsizing or eliminating the FR product line, I think they'd want to see several years of Eberron or some other gaming world displaying strong sales before they made such a move.
quote:
However, i was merely thinking, that if we organized an emailing campaign, to fill Hasboro up to the earlobes in requests for more fluff. they might just pay attention, and some executive lackey will bring printouts of a few thousand emails requesting more fluff to a board meeting and show them that indeed, people want more fluff. That we've had enough crunch.
One thing to recall, people who post here and at other messageboards are just a tiny fraction of FR consumers that come online. Moreover, the online consumers are just a tiny fraction of overall FR consumers. Thus, I'm not sure how strong a response anyone organizing an online effort could expect from Hasbro. |
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Karesch
Learned Scribe
Canada
199 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2004 : 18:52:13
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Unfortunately thats very true SB, it was a thought, that perhaps would invoke a response of some sort however.
K |
Knowledge is power... power corrupts... knowledge corrupts? hmm...
Death is only frightening to those who haven't died yet... |
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The Wanderer
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2004 : 19:09:09
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
One thing to recall, people who post here and at other messageboards are just a tiny fraction of FR consumers that come online. Moreover, the online consumers are just a tiny fraction of overall FR consumers. Thus, I'm not sure how strong a response anyone organizing an online effort could expect from Hasbro.
Aye, I've heard this before from other companies as well. They say that we are the vocal minority. Companies tend to trust their sales more than their community boards, which is too bad since they miss out on some good suggestions. I guess it is the easiest way to get a feel for any product, since otherwise they would have to perform a survey which itself would consume resources they would rather see spent elsewhere. |
The Wanderer |
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Karesch
Learned Scribe
Canada
199 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2004 : 00:33:15
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That in itself is understandable, the way companies approach it, but then again, those other companies that spend some resources on REAL market research, IE: polling more than 100 consumers, often as not have products that can't be kept on the shelves. So where the tried tested and true method of just following current sales, keeps fairly steady product movement, those companies that try to find out from their consumers what's in demand, often find higher sales on a regular basis. Oh well, who am I but a fan, and only one of millions I imagine, so my opinion has little value..
K |
Knowledge is power... power corrupts... knowledge corrupts? hmm...
Death is only frightening to those who haven't died yet... |
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Brother Ezra
Learned Scribe
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2004 : 03:33:57
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I tend to agree that WotC is going to market whatever style of product sells. If it's crunch, then their products will feature "10% more crunchiness", and they will promulgate this through the continuing practice of ladening most of their products with new spells, skills, prestige classes, races, classes and special abilities. Just enough lore will be tossed in to satisfy the non-crunch fan.
I wonder, if the Eberron campaign setting is as successful as WotC hopes, will FR be dropped as a WotC setting, and would this be necessarily bad? Would a successful d20 publisher like AEG, Necromancer or Goodman Games be able to pick up the license and balance out the needs of the roll player and the role player? How was the Ravenloft line affected when WotC dropped it? Did the quality improve? Was there a greater attention to atmosphere and lore? |
"Suffering is the touchstone of all spiritual growth."
-St. Sollars the Twice-Martyred |
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Karesch
Learned Scribe
Canada
199 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2004 : 07:02:55
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I think, as SB noted earlier, that it would take a few years at least, before WotC would even consider dropping FR, however, I have to say that, your comment on there being "just enough fluff to satisfy those of us who like fluff" is far from true. there has been terribly little fluff included in anything really. As to the thought of another D20 publisher picking up the license if WotC drops it, and brings back the fluff, I think we could only pray that would happen, but would be suicidal to hold our breath on the matter. But alas, we can only pray that some miracle will happen, like Mr. Greenwood taking a gun-ho attempt at writing a sourcebook full of lore, and trying to get Wizards to publish it. which, while an incredible thought, and what would be a truely wonderous event, is doubtful to happen, not that I'm doubting Mr Greenwood by any measure, but more that I doubt WotC would listen and put forth the needed effort to have it published... But again, thats just my meager opinion..
K |
Knowledge is power... power corrupts... knowledge corrupts? hmm...
Death is only frightening to those who haven't died yet... |
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brjr2001
Learned Scribe
106 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2004 : 07:05:33
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| i didn't like the d20 series it just wasn't good at all |
on second thought lets not go to candlekeep it is a silly place |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2004 : 07:15:17
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quote:
Originally posted by zemd
In fact i begin to be tired of the d20 material (apart of som books like the midnight CS)
I've only just recently come across this setting myself, I must say that I agree with you. The entire core setting book was a delight to read. There was very little crunch (and then, only when necessarily needed), and most of the tome was taken up by Midnight related fluff. I was also intrigued to hear that there was even more fluff material that needed to be cut from the core book to keep it at 300+ pages.
If this trend continues with the coming MDN supplements, I'll certainly be adding this set of tomes to my gaming library.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Brother Ezra
Learned Scribe
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2004 : 15:20:36
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quote:
Originally posted by brjr2001
i didn't like the d20 series it just wasn't good at all
What "d20 series" are you referring to? D20 is a role-playing system that exists under an open game license, allowing WotC competitors to use the system to create supplemental game material for the system. Anything involving D&D 3rd edition is D20 material. Are you saying you don't like the d20 system? Does your hat of d02 know no limit |
"Suffering is the touchstone of all spiritual growth."
-St. Sollars the Twice-Martyred |
Edited by - Brother Ezra on 15 Jul 2004 15:21:39 |
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Fluff products
