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Buzzcutter
Acolyte
16 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Jun 2004 : 01:42:10
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Know I've seen the listing somewhere...does anyone know where to find a (near) complete listing the Chosen of all the Gods?
thanx!
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2004 : 02:47:00
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I think one of the ever resourceful scribes here at Candlekeep posted a partial listing a few months back. I suggest you try a 'search' of the library for details pertaining to the chosen of all the gods.
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"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
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chosenofvelsharoon
Acolyte
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2004 : 03:18:54
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that's a hard question to ask, mystra has about a dozen, and it's hard to find the names of the seven sisters,
i know bane has one or two,
but most gods don't have humanoid "chosen"
and other's that do, keep it on the low down.
If you consider the magister as azuth's chosen, then your out of luck, because he changes every now and then, and his identy is supposed to be a secret.
"and naught shall be left save shattered thrones, with none to rule them but the dead" |
~chosen of Velsharoon
"and naught shall be left, saved shattered throwns with none to rule them but the dead." |
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2004 : 03:28:51
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Finding the names for the Seven Sisters isn't that difficult. They're detailed in the 2e tomes Heroes' Lorebook, and The Seven Sisters . . . 
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"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2004 : 03:47:54
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The Chosen of Bane: Fzoul Chembryl
Chosen of Deneir: Cadderly Bondaunce (sp?)
Chosen of Mask: Erevis Cale, Riven, Kesson Rel, Arvis of Hartvale
Chosen of Mystra: Elminster, Khelben Blackstaff, the Seven Sisters
These are the only ones I know of. If anybody finds any incorrect info in my post, please feel free to point them out.
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"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Chyron
Learned Scribe
Hong Kong
279 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2004 : 03:56:25
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From the RPGA Green Regent series,
current Chosen of Mielikki - Otar (an orc chieftan from the high forest) |
Just My Thoughts
Chyron :)
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RogueAssassin
Learned Scribe
USA
207 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2004 : 04:19:55
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Thats interesting. I was also looking for the choosen of the gods, and maybe what benifits they have as well.
-The Rogue |
"Spirit. Its a Heros strength, a mothers resiliance, and the poor mans armor. It cannot be broken and it cannot be taken away. This i must belive"---Drizzt Do'Urden |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2004 : 05:15:19
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| Wait... isn't there a Chosen of Mielikki that was a noble of Waterdeep? I remember reading something like that in the Waterdeep manual about how she helped Bran Skorlsun fight off like tribes of orcs... |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2004 : 06:14:28
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Wait... isn't there a Chosen of Mielikki that was a noble of Waterdeep? I remember reading something like that in the Waterdeep manual about how she helped Bran Skorlsun fight off like tribes of orcs...
From the FAQ located elsewhere on this site:
quote:
Some deities, most notably Mystra, have given one or a small group of their dedicated followers special powers; these are called Chosen. The Chosen of Mystra are most well known, and derive some special benefits because they actually hold a portion of Mystra's essence within them. They are Elminster, Khelben, the Seven Sisters, and perhaps others yet unrevealed. (Azuth may or may not currently be a Chosen, although it's virtually certain he was before he became a god. The founder of the Cult of the Dragon, Sammaster, was a Chosen who went bad.) Mystra's Magister is NOT a chosen (at least not while holding the office of Magister). Noumea Drathchuld, a recent Magister, is now a chosen, as is Alvaerele Tasundrym, a Magister who held the office from 576-592 DR).
Other known Chosen: Cadderly, Chosen of Deneir (from the Cleric Quintet by R. A. Salvatore); Qilue Veladorn, Chosen of Eilistraee (as well as Mystra...it's a complicated story); Jeryth Phaulkon, the Chosen Star of Mielikki. We should also take care not to forget Fzoul Chembryl, chosen of Xvim.
The Elder Circle of the Emerald Enclave are also chosen - the Chosen of Silvanus. The names of the three chosen are:
Shinthala Deepcrest
Lady Shadowmoon
Ashenford Torinbow
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RogueAssassin
Learned Scribe
USA
207 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2004 : 06:19:53
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I knew that i had Seen that somewhere in the walls of the keep. Does anyone have information concerning what powers the deitys may grant to their followers?
-The Rogue |
"Spirit. Its a Heros strength, a mothers resiliance, and the poor mans armor. It cannot be broken and it cannot be taken away. This i must belive"---Drizzt Do'Urden |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2004 : 06:24:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Qilue Veladorn, Chosen of Eilistraee (as well as Mystra...it's a complicated story)
That's my favorite part. Talk about understatement.  |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2004 : 07:03:23
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quote:
Originally posted by RogueAssassin
I knew that i had Seen that somewhere in the walls of the keep. Does anyone have information concerning what powers the deitys may grant to their followers?
-The Rogue
For the Chosen of Mystra, the best info is in The Seven Sisters (though it only covers the Sisters, and not Khelben, Elminster, Sammy, or Nouméa.)
The Chosen of Silvanus were covered in the Vilhon Reach sourcebook, I believe.
I don't believe the powers of the others were ever covered.
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Qilue Veladorn, Chosen of Eilistraee (as well as Mystra...it's a complicated story)
That's my favorite part. Talk about understatement.
Yeah, ditto that. When I first flipped thru the book and saw that the Seventh Sister was a drow, I was wondering just how in Lurue's name they were gonna explain that one! The explanation was an interestingly complicated tale.  |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 26 Jun 2004 07:12:09 |
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Sarta
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2004 : 07:15:13
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It may just be me, but I still stick to the "only Mystra has chosen" rule. Her chosen actually contain a portion of her power, which she can draw upon when it is needed. This is quite a different relationship than these other "chosen" have with their deities. Although, a strong argument could be made that Fzoul meets these pre-requisites.
The others I've merely lumped into the category of "god-touched" meaning that they have somehow been blessed with varying degrees of power beyond that of normal worshippers by their gods.
Sarta |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2004 : 07:48:14
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| Sarta, I quite agree with you. The relationship of Mystra and her chosens are different than the other gods. Mystra treats her Chosens as her children and lovers (that's because they are!) while the other gods use theirs as a way of enforcing the deitie's laws and increase their powers. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2004 : 11:07:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Sarta
It may just be me, but I still stick to the "only Mystra has chosen" rule. Her chosen actually contain a portion of her power, which she can draw upon when it is needed. This is quite a different relationship than these other "chosen" have with their deities. Although, a strong argument could be made that Fzoul meets these pre-requisites.
The others I've merely lumped into the category of "god-touched" meaning that they have somehow been blessed with varying degrees of power beyond that of normal worshippers by their gods.
Sarta
I'd have to agree with that as well. The more and more I learn about Realms history (and to a lesser extent, the nature of the various Chosen) the more and more I prefer to think that Mystra's Chosen are simply a unique occurence in the whole of the Realms.
While I never thought of the other "chosen" as "god-touched" in particular, I do consider then something more than just an average worshipper.
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"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2004 : 11:15:06
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Yeah, I feel the same way. Mystra has a reason for her Chosen. The other deities with Chosen do not have these reasons.
I tend to see the Chosen of other deities as being something more like "champions" or "special agents" of that deity. Mystra's Chosen are different, since they are actually repositories of her power, as well as special agents.
Looking at the powers of the Chosen of Silvanus really backs this up. Those folks have some seriously nifty powers not granted to other followers of Silvanus, but they are far from the powers Mystra grants her Chosen. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2004 : 11:24:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I tend to see the Chosen of other deities as being something more like "champions" or "special agents" of that deity. Mystra's Chosen are different, since they are actually repositories of her power, as well as special agents.
That's exactly what I was thinking at the time of my last post above  . But, since you've already mentioned it, I guess I won't worry about editing my original statement.
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"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
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OrnluTheWolf
Acolyte
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2004 : 14:25:16
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3 questions:
SPOILERS FOR THE LONE DROW:
1)Would you consider Obould Many-Arrows a chosen of Gruumsh (or a God-Touched, if you wish to use that term instead)? He has been given powers far beyond what a normal worshiper has been given, especially if you consider that the orcs regard great strength, dexterity, and as the criteria for kingship.
***End Spoilers***
2)What about the lytheri from Elaine Cunningham's Windwalker? Isn't she a chosen of Eilistraee?
3)What books detal Noumea Drathchuld's and Alvaerele Tasundrym's exploits?
I also agree with the thing about only Mystra has chosen, except that Bane definatly has a chosen in Fzoul. |
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Cherrn
Learned Scribe
Denmark
323 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2004 : 15:54:29
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| Don't forget good ol' Malik Yn Sami El Nassr, The Seraph of Lies, Chosen of Cyric |
A wise man from Calimport once told me: "If a merchant puts sand in the flask of oil he's trying to sell you, then he isn't trying to sell you sand..." |
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Purple_Faerie Goddess
Acolyte
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2004 : 15:58:10
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| I also agree about Mystra only have chosen. I have only read the first two books of Elminster so far, but I can tell from them that if he had not some of Mystra's power he could not have survived alot of the stuff he had went through. |
'May all your days be filled with faery magick.'
'It wasn't me, I swear.'
'There is neither evil or good. There is only me.' |
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RogueAssassin
Learned Scribe
USA
207 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2004 : 19:05:02
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quote:
I also agree with the thing about only Mystra has chosen, except that Bane definatly has a chosen in Fzoul.
Yeah i was going to say this earlier. Fzoul has more powers than these other 'Godtouched' though not as much as the Choosen of Mystra.
quote:
I tend to see the Chosen of other deities as being something more like "champions" or "special agents" of that deity. Mystra's Chosen are different, since they are actually repositories of her power, as well as special agents.
A good representation of one of these champions is Cadderly, from the Cleric Quintet. He gained his powers by reading The Book of Universal Harmony. I think Denir may have givin him some powers, though i belive the book gave him most of them. Anyone could have weilded those powers, only Cadderly learned how the book worked and was able to use it.
-The Rogue |
"Spirit. Its a Heros strength, a mothers resiliance, and the poor mans armor. It cannot be broken and it cannot be taken away. This i must belive"---Drizzt Do'Urden |
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Jlindgren
Acolyte
Venezuela
6 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2004 : 19:27:33
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Well we all know that mystra's chosen are different of all others in some areas just because mystra has a diferent relationship with them mother/lover etc. while other gods use mostly their worshippers as chosen as enforcers or messengers of their dogma in the realms, but that IMO is only because 2 facts
1.-Mystra is arguably the most powerful deity in FR so she has the abbility of spreading her power like we all know she does with SF
2.-In her 3 incarnations the last 2 seem to have quite a human streak once in a while (we know midnight's reasons for that)
and in fact i think that ed said that there are some hidden chosen of mystra (so she's the big family type)
but other deities just look for someone/something that really fits his portfolio like fzoul who's the ultimate tyrant and almost all his powers are for oppresing people, etc, we have the kraken that's umberlee's chosen that is a force to be reckoned in the seas of faerun and the leader of the kraken society, we have malik (and this has been a long discussion before chosen or just seraph?) that is unable to die while doing cyric's work etc (as expected for a deity like cyric) and the ultimate IMO power given by a deity cadderly's almost psionic priestly powers so every god has its own "flavor" fo it's chosen and IMO it would be really boring if all of them had the same approach as mystra's chosen so it's unfair judging them based on that.
but if what you wanted was a list i think there's one in the wiz boards (and i think that the malik discussion was in that same thread)
and i really believe that obould is gruumsh's chosen i mean you can't go from "i want to kill dwarves" to "i want to build an orc nation and establish trade with silverymoon using cheap labor from slaves" i mean that's not the so called permanency spell kind of thing that's some serious change but of course you have to read the book (or to a lesser extent play NWN) to see how he became quite a "king" not just a warlord because in the FRCS he's portrayed just like a normal orc. |
It Had Three Holes And I Really Wanted One... |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2004 : 19:38:09
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The point of Mystra's Chosen is that they store part of her power as a safeguard against her destruction, and against possible abuses by her.
What I don't understand is why, when in the 1990s authors thought it would be a good idea to create special divine servants of a kind fundamentally different from Mystra's Chosen, they used the 'Chosen' term for them rather than the pre-existing Planescape idea of proxies (not the way the 3E Deities & Demigods uses the term).quote:
3)What books detal Noumea Drathchuld's and Alvaerele Tasundrym's exploits?
Secrets of the Magister. Nouméa also makes a few short novel appearances. |
Edited by - Faraer on 26 Jun 2004 19:40:37 |
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Sarelle
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
508 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2004 : 20:25:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
The point of Mystra's Chosen is that they store part of her power as a safeguard against her destruction, and against possible abuses by her.
What I don't understand is why, when in the 1990s authors thought it would be a good idea to create special divine servants of a kind fundamentally different from Mystra's Chosen, they used the 'Chosen' term for them rather than the pre-existing Planescape idea of proxies (not the way the 3E Deities & Demigods uses the term).
I agree. Chosen were Mystra-specific, and very Realms-y. However there is naught to do now about it now...
My opinions on Mystra's Chosen is made in the 'Migrations to the Shadow Weave' thread.
Ornlu: Thorn was Eilistraee's 'champion', not her Chosen. I assume in stat terms this would mean she would have levels in the Divine Champion PrC.
WINDWALKER SPOLIERS BELOW - highlight to reveal:
However also in Windwalker it is revealed that Liriel was used as an avatar of Lolth and was made her Chosen. |
Chair of the The Rightful Return of Monster Deities to FR Society (RRMDFRS)
My character, drawn by Liodain: Sarelle / Sarelle (smaller) |
Edited by - Sarelle on 26 Jun 2004 20:26:58 |
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Buzzcutter
Acolyte
16 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2004 : 06:10:44
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ok, so it seems that the word "chosen" is thrown around a tad lightly nowadays. fine. however, in Dawn of Night, at the time when Cale finally submits to his "transformation" there is a passage that reads":
"...proxies, chosen, agents, seraphs - they all had many titles."
is this meant to be taken that these titles are each interchangeable, and that there is no difference, or that they are specific and distinct positions and that there is a definate and structured ranking of divine servants after the priest and paladin levels? |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2004 : 06:58:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Buzzcutter
ok, so it seems that the word "chosen" is thrown around a tad lightly nowadays. fine. however, in Dawn of Night, at the time when Cale finally submits to his "transformation" there is a passage that reads":
"...proxies, chosen, agents, seraphs - they all had many titles."
is this meant to be taken that these titles are each interchangeable, and that there is no difference, or that they are specific and distinct positions and that there is a definate and structured ranking of divine servants after the priest and paladin levels?
See this is where you have to bring in game rules. In 2e Chosen and Proxies were not the same, since Labelas has a npc that is both a Chosen and a Proxy. He appears in Demihuman Deities as well as in On Hallowed Ground for Planescape.
Now in 3e, proxies also take a divine rank to make, while Chosen do not, and the divine rank for a proxy thing was not so in 2e though. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2004 : 09:46:59
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I think I prefer the 3e ruling for this. Now, I know I've had little exposure to gaming in 2e, but just thinking about DMing an adventure which contains a proxy of a deity, makes me prefer the notion that they have at least a base divine rank.
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"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2004 : 18:20:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Lady Kazandra
I think I prefer the 3e ruling for this. Now, I know I've had little exposure to gaming in 2e, but just thinking about DMing an adventure which contains a proxy of a deity, makes me prefer the notion that they have at least a base divine rank.
Well I can see the good points and the bad points about the change. To me one of the bad points is that Proxies can't enter Sigil now since they have a divine rank.... Kind of screws up lore since the deities sent Proxies to Sigil to take care of thier problems, requests, etc.....
For those who don't know Planescape lore, the Lady of Pain doesn't usually allow any deity, or in 3e a being with a divine rank, into Sigil. There are some exceptions to this, but not many. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Chyron
Learned Scribe
Hong Kong
279 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2004 : 02:16:10
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
For those who don't know Planescape lore, the Lady of Pain doesn't usually allow any deity, or in 3e a being with a divine rank, into Sigil. There are some exceptions to this, but not many.
Hmmm...interesting. Arguably one could ignore the 3E ruling remove and the divine rank from Proxies or perhaps this would be an argument for deities to need more Chosen to serve their will. |
Just My Thoughts
Chyron :)
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2004 : 02:31:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Chyron
Hmmm...interesting. Arguably one could ignore the 3E ruling remove and the divine rank from Proxies or perhaps this would be an argument for deities to need more Chosen to serve their will.
True, grin but I'd rather have them have more proxies since there are to many darn Chosen poping up right and left. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2004 : 03:07:51
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
quote:
Originally posted by Chyron
Hmmm...interesting. Arguably one could ignore the 3E ruling remove and the divine rank from Proxies or perhaps this would be an argument for deities to need more Chosen to serve their will.
True, grin but I'd rather have them have more proxies since there are to many darn Chosen poping up right and left. :)
I concur. We had more than enough with 2E, and now there's more than that... |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Chosen of the Gods
