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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Jun 2004 : 05:16:09
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In the origional 1ed supplement that details Hellsgate (Savage Frontier/Waterdeep & the North) Theres mention of a Death Knight (Shan Nikkoleth) and some mutant Dinosaurs that Grimharke the Balor brought from another world (the Dinos would probably be considered fiendish Dinosaurs in 3ed)
However Steve S makes no mention of their fate in the Hels gate keep module he wrote for 2ed.
Are the Mutant Dinos and Death Knight still around and if so where?
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“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Sarta
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2004 : 07:13:04
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My guess is that a DM can use them if they wish.
Hellgate Keep explains that some survivors managed to make it out alive. Otherwise, they may have died during the internecine struggles caused by the death of Grintharke and his vrock second in command, during the destruction of Hellgate Keep itself, or even during one of the raids that occurred when Tanta Hagara led her forces against the Mistmaster and other targets in the Marches.
So, if you want them dead, they died in one of several ways. But if you wish to use them in a game, feel free. There were several opportunities when they could have made good their escapes.
My guess would be that Shan had a much better chance to get away than the dinosaurs. The containment efforts would have very likely found the dinosaurs and eventually led to their slaughter. Death Knights, being a bit more sly would find an easier time slipping away.
Sarta |
Edited by - Sarta on 10 Jun 2004 07:15:18 |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1715 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2004 : 17:47:00
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At the time I wrote it, I thought I'd accounted for Nikkoleth by destroying him during one of the demons' rises to power (if not Grintharke, then one of the others). My memory's spotty, and it might even have been edited out. <shrug> Check the text in THE NORTH boxed set; I wrote up the Silverymoon stuff and co-plotted the destruction of the Keep therein with Jim Butler.
As it is, I could get a little strident at times when defending and distinguishing the campaign worlds. To my way of thinking (and it's softened over the years since then), death knights should only exist in one place--Drangonlance, the world that spawned them. They were signature characters there and I thought it'd be better if each world had its signature touches not to be poached by others. Thus, Nikkoleth had to be removed from the board or redefined to work as a Realms character.
And then they ported Lord Soth into Ravenloft, buggering the whole concept of distinct and identifiable trademarks within each campaign world.   At the time, I hoped that RAVENLOFT and SPELLJAMMER would remain small, interesting sidelines that would allow cross-pollination among campaign worlds, but they became lines in their own rights. Good stuff, to be sure, but I'd hoped they'd remain smaller and more focused in a limited run, like AL-QADIM was later.
Okay, too much rambling and I'm still unsure I answered the question or not.
SES |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2004 : 03:42:13
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| Then your probably about as ticked off as I am with WOTC dumping the Dracolich into the Generic Draconomicon and the PDK and Thayan Knight ending up in Complete Warrior |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2004 : 04:00:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Then your probably about as ticked off as I am with WOTC dumping the Dracolich into the Generic Draconomicon and the PDK and Thayan Knight ending up in Complete Warrior
 In with the bad air, out with the good air.
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Derulbaskul
Senior Scribe
Singapore
408 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2004 : 04:44:32
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For some of us "oldies", the death knight is more a signature character of Greyhawk than Dragonlance.
Anyway, I always thought it was fairly poorly designed in terms of its abilities and immunities. Why did it (and does it) have the fireball ability, frex? I'm a firm believer that there should always be a logical reason for the abilities possessed by creatures and an undead knight in the service of Demogorgon (to use the original version) doesn't seem to be the sort to throw around fireballs. |
Cheers
D
NB: Please remember: A cannon is a big gun. Canon is what we discuss here. |
Edited by - Derulbaskul on 11 Jun 2004 04:48:16 |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2004 : 01:21:33
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Hmmm looks like I missed the North Boxset
Do one of the other Sages have it? and if so what does it say about the Death Knight and the Mutant Dinos? |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Topic |
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Steve Schend: Where are the Dinos and Death knight
