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The Defence Minister
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
218 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Nov 2002 : 19:25:58
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They're the worlds three most famous (or maybe not) greybeards....
They're all mystical guides in they're own land.....
But who is THE ULTIMATE GREYBEARD - Elminster, Gandalf or Merlin?
Elminster, the greatest hero of the Forgotten Realms, the most powerful man to grace faerun
or maybe Gandalf the man who saved Middle Earth on so many occasions, single handedly defeated the Balrog and organised the downfall of Sauron
or is it Merlin, the ancient English legend, the force behind King Arthur.
Who do YOU think???
TDM
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- TDM (Candlekeep's most popular, experienced and handsome member) |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2002 : 23:11:16
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Ahem  Youre lookin' at him!! 
Sorry, I couldnt resist! IMHO, I would say Merlin, simply because his is of ancient legend derived from history, not fiction-based as the other two you mention.
I should have said Elminster, then at least this topic may have kept to a Forgotten Realms nature  ::hint:: |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2002 : 11:15:58
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<Tugs on Alaundo's beard to see if it is real...>
I would say Santa Claus is the greatest Grey Beard of all... being like Merlin rooted in history (In Santa's case both christian and pagan religion)
If good ol' Santa doesn't qualify, I'd go with Merlin as well. He is the more archetypical wizard, from which I think Ghandalf and Elminster have borrowed some. |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
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Echon
Senior Scribe
Denmark
422 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2002 : 11:52:24
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quote:
Originally posted by The Defence Minister
They're the worlds three most famous (or maybe not) greybeards....
They're all mystical guides in they're own land.....
But who is THE ULTIMATE GREYBEARD - Elminster, Gandalf or Merlin?
Elminster, the greatest hero of the Forgotten Realms, the most powerful man to grace faerun
or maybe Gandalf the man who saved Middle Earth on so many occasions, single handedly defeated the Balrog and organised the downfall of Sauron
or is it Merlin, the ancient English legend, the force behind King Arthur.
Who do YOU think???
TDM
Gandalf may be fictional but his creation was heavily inspired by Odin of Norse mythology. |
"If others had not been foolish, we should be so."
-William Blake |
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Drummer Boy
Senior Scribe
USA
395 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2002 : 14:39:23
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| I'd have to pick Gandalf as my favorite greybeard simply because I don't really like Merlin or Elminster that much. Elminster's just weird and I don't know enough about Merlin to say that I like him more than Gandalf. |
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Kitira Gildragon
Learned Scribe
USA
191 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2002 : 16:49:43
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| Hmmm... I'd go with Mumadar's Santa. But if I had to go with one of the three, I guess I'd have to say Elminster. He's a bit more mysterious than the others and it adds to the characters allure. |
-Space for rent- |
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The Defence Minister
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
218 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2002 : 17:32:37
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Personally my vote would go to Gandalf.
Elminster pisses me off and Merlin never really did much but Gandalf is just so cool.
Plus I am a huge LOTR fan.
TDM
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- TDM (Candlekeep's most popular, experienced and handsome member) |
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Ghost
Acolyte
Netherlands
38 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2002 : 14:54:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Mumadar Ibn Huzal
<Tugs on Alaundo's beard to see if it is real...>
I would say Santa Claus is the greatest Grey Beard of all... being like Merlin rooted in history (In Santa's case both christian and pagan religion)
If good ol' Santa doesn't qualify, I'd go with Merlin as well. He is the more archetypical wizard, from which I think Ghandalf and Elminster have borrowed some.
1. Santa Claus is a VERY recent invention, look here for more info.
2. Even though Gandalf the Great may be derived from the image of Merlin the Magician, I still hold him as THE Greybeard. |
The way of a superior man are three-fold;
virtuous, he is free from anxieties;
wise, he is free from perplexities;
bold, he is free from fear. ~ Confucius
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Edited by - Alaundo on 26 Nov 2002 16:07:40 |
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Echon
Senior Scribe
Denmark
422 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2002 : 15:58:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Ghost
2. Even though Gandalf the Great may be derived from the image of Merlin the Magician, I still hold him as THE Greybeard.
Are you certain it is not Odin who was the inspiration?
-Echon |
"If others had not been foolish, we should be so."
-William Blake |
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The Defence Minister
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
218 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2002 : 16:49:07
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Nobody quite knows who, if anyone, was the inspiration behind Gandalf but we do know JRR Tolkien took a lot of his material from Norse Mythology so this explaination seems likely.
TDM |
- TDM (Candlekeep's most popular, experienced and handsome member) |
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Captain Louis
Acolyte
USA
26 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2002 : 01:34:03
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| I have to go with Gandalf. I'm a huge LotR fan, Merlin just played a background role to an all too famous myth, and and Elminster is nothing more than a way to introduce new areas and history to the realms. |
Ow, I cut my lip!
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The Defence Minister
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
218 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2002 : 11:09:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Captain Louis
I have to go with Gandalf. I'm a huge LotR fan, Merlin just played a background role to an all too famous myth, and and Elminster is nothing more than a way to introduce new areas and history to the realms.
That is point I really agree with, I am also a huge LotR fan. Elminster did do a bit more than introducing new areas and backgrounds, he has defeated many threats and even travelled to hell on one occasion. But Middle Earth would be practically destroyed without the great Gandalf.
TDM |
- TDM (Candlekeep's most popular, experienced and handsome member) |
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Artalis
Senior Scribe
USA
444 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2002 : 22:25:38
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Gandalf, by far imho. Gandalf was know by all peoples as a good person and a wise one.
Talk about respect even the dwarves had a name for him Olorin (I think).
He could come and go in all lands as he wished. He didn't cast fireballs at the drop of a hat either he didn't have to.
His restraint, dignity and kindness make him THE ULTIMATE GREYBEARD. |
Artalis
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The Great Drizzt
Learned Scribe
USA
280 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2002 : 05:13:26
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Well I beleive "Greybeard" is actually Khelben "Blackstaff" Arunsun's(spelling?)nickname,or maybe its "Old Greybeard" I'm not to sure, but out of the three you've mentioned, I would have to go with Elminster on this one, I mean come on now, he can walk to different planes with each step he takes, he smokes a pipe that can blow fireballs!
He has saved Faerun many a time, and he has done so much for the people, personally, I don't think "Gandalf" has anything on him, I think I've seen the guy cast 1 or 2 spells, and he fights with a sword......(He should stick to the staff I think) Merlin...good old Merlin, "Thee Ideal Mage" just because he's the most popular I don't think he has anything on Elminster either, besides, he's rather limited if you think about it, it's not really a "Magically" based world that he lives/lived in, there are no monsters, no REAL magical items besides Excalibur(if you count that as magical!) and he's just about the only mage in his time, so where did he learn his spells? or where did he get the components? It's basically the Dark Ages with ONE wizard, and If you ask who is the Ultimate Greybeard? It's definately not Merlin.
Elminster is the way to go!
The Great Drizzt |
"Don't poke Drizzt, 'tis highly unsociable!" Drizzt Do'Urden -BG1 |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2002 : 08:34:39
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| Morgainne le Fay (sp?) is another of the spellcasters in the Arthur saga. Merlin is definitely not the only one. It depends a little on which incarnation of the saga one is looking at, but even though Earth at that time is considered 'low magic', there are more practicers of magic then Merlin alone... And that is besides the fey and the sidhe... |
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Echon
Senior Scribe
Denmark
422 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2002 : 09:13:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Morgainne le Fay (sp?) is another of the spellcasters in the Arthur saga. Merlin is definitely not the only one. It depends a little on which incarnation of the saga one is looking at, but even though Earth at that time is considered 'low magic', there are more practicers of magic then Merlin alone... And that is besides the fey and the sidhe...
But women do not count because they have no beard... **rolleyes**
-Echon |
"If others had not been foolish, we should be so."
-William Blake |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2002 : 10:56:37
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<sigh> You've never encountered dwarven women then have ye...
I was referring to Drizzt's comments on Merlin being the only magic user in the Arthur saga.... |
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Echon
Senior Scribe
Denmark
422 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2002 : 13:44:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Mumadar Ibn Huzal
<sigh> You've never encountered dwarven women then have ye...
I have met them on a few occasions, peculiar folk. (I was going to say something about dwarves and mages but since you go for 3E, that would be of little use).
quote:
I was referring to Drizzt's comments on Merlin being the only magic user in the Arthur saga....
I know. She seems very powerful, almost as much as Merlin but a lot of people do not know about her. I once read three books about King Arthur where the protagonist of the first book was Gawain, the second Sir Lancelot and the third Queen whatever-her-name-is but I cannot remember what the books where called. Anyway, Morgana was very powerful.
-Echon |
"If others had not been foolish, we should be so."
-William Blake |
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The Defence Minister
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
218 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2002 : 17:03:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Morgainne le Fay (sp?) is another of the spellcasters in the Arthur saga. Merlin is definitely not the only one. It depends a little on which incarnation of the saga one is looking at, but even though Earth at that time is considered 'low magic', there are more practicers of magic then Merlin alone... And that is besides the fey and the sidhe...
She was an evil wizard though and evil wizards dont count. Also, Where's her grey beard??
TDM |
- TDM (Candlekeep's most popular, experienced and handsome member) |
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Echon
Senior Scribe
Denmark
422 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2002 : 21:00:51
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quote:
Originally posted by The Defence Minister
She was an evil wizard though and evil wizards dont count.
TDM
Why? Are you suggesting that they cannot be as powerful as good wizards or that they do not grow grey beards?
-Echon |
"If others had not been foolish, we should be so."
-William Blake |
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The Great Drizzt
Learned Scribe
USA
280 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2002 : 06:25:54
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LOL, this is the funniest topic by far!
Well Mumadar your right, I totally forgot about her...geez, is it just me, or is my mind is slipping....
The Great Drizzt
P.S.-She doesnt count because she is female, has no beard, and is evil, do we all agree on that? |
"Don't poke Drizzt, 'tis highly unsociable!" Drizzt Do'Urden -BG1 |
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Shades
Acolyte
Georgia
39 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2002 : 06:50:15
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| I'd say Merlin. Look at Elminster and Gandalf they are both clones of Merlin. Physical description and they are all powerful wizards much liker Merlin. |
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zemd
Master of Realmslore
France
1103 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2002 : 08:49:07
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And what about Halaster! That's a great guy, completely mad and still he manage to build the greatest dungeon ever.
I also like Azalin (from Ravenloft) and Szass Tam... |
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lowtech
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2002 : 17:23:12
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What about Dumbledore?
<ducks as knives are thrown in my direction> |
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The Great Drizzt
Learned Scribe
USA
280 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2002 : 06:37:44
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What about Halaster, he was'nt an option, but he's not all as insane as everyone says he is......
Elminster would wipe the floor with Merlin and Gandalf!
The Great Drizzt |
"Don't poke Drizzt, 'tis highly unsociable!" Drizzt Do'Urden -BG1 |
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Salius Kai
Learned Scribe
USA
217 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2003 : 23:52:49
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| Out of the three, I'd say Merlin. He dosn't have all the restrictions of D&D (only cast certain spells so many times), and if you take Gandalf's stick away, his spells are greatly weakened. |
"Welcome to these walls of infinite knowledge."
Salius Kai |
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Salius Kai
Learned Scribe
USA
217 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2003 : 23:56:25
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Hey, is it too late to add another continder? I vote Cogline (From the Shannara Series). He had a grey beard (I would have voted walker, but he lacks the beard) and he lived longer and did more than any other of the Druid did.
There were only three things in the four lands that combined science and magic, and Cogline was a part of them all.
1)Walker
2)Himself
3)The Sword of Shannara |
"Welcome to these walls of infinite knowledge."
Salius Kai |
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Dark_Lord
Seeker
63 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2003 : 10:50:42
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quote:
Originally posted by The Defence Minister
Elminster, the greatest hero of the Forgotten Realms, the most powerful man to grace faerun.
Wrong! Two most powerful entities that walked Faerun are presented below....
Halaster
Blackcloak
Human male 30th-level mage
ARMOR CLASS: 6
MOVE: 12
HIT POINTS: 49
THAC0: 11
NO. OF ATTACKS: 1
ALIGNMENT: Chaotic evil
STR 9, DEX 18, CON 25 (15), INT 20, WIS 19, CHA 9
History: Halaster, the Mad Mage of Undermountain,
is the designer of that insane, chaotic
maze of deathtraps, monsters, and disreputable beings
of all shapes and sizes.
This manís given name was Hilather, but he
changed it to the grander Halaster as more befitting a
powerful mage. The date and place of his birth are unknown,
but heís rumored to be older than even Elminster.
Regardless of his origins, Halaster left off his dealings
with most of humanity more than 1,000 years ago.
Accompanied only by his seven apprentices, Halaster
came to the base of Mt. Waterdeep to build his new
home. He summoned and bound fell creatures from
other planes to build this tower and complex, as well
as smaller towers for his apprentices. Once finished,
even his apprentices saw less of their master.
As he dealt less and less with humans and more
with the vile creatures from other planes, Halaster
changed. He grew grim and became prone to long,
sullen silences, broken by sudden, violent rages. He
had his servant creatures dig storage areas and additional
laboratories beneath his tower, and this work
went on for decades.
Szass Tam, Zulkir
of Necromancy
29th-level necromancer lich;
formerly a human male
ARMOR CLASS: 0
MOVE: 6
HIT POINTS: 64
THAC0: 9
NO. OF ATTACKS: 1
ALIGNMENT: Neutral evil
STR 11, DEX 14, CON 19, INT 19, WIS 16, CHA 18
History: Most of Szass Tamís past is shrouded in
mystery, but itís publicly known that heís the most
powerful and infamous zulkir in modem Thay.
He built this reputation over the last several years.
When a tharchion and two zulkirs sought to overthrow
several cities along the Sea of Fallen Stars, the
trio summoned a number of efreeti and salamanders
to aid them in exchange for constructing a permanent
gate in the area. Of course, the Thayans never
intended to keep their end of the bargain.
The conquests went well-too well in fact. Soon
after most of the coast fell, the elementals demanded
the gate be built. As yet unprepared to banish them to
their own plane, the Thayans nevertheless tried. They
ousted the efreeti, but the salamanders remained and
ravaged much of the Thayansí new territory.
Szass Tam then sent a portion of his undead legion
to the trioís aid at this time; though the war
that followed lasted almost a year, the salamanders
were eventually vanquished.
When the Tuigan Horde came west, they engaged
the Thayans in battle. Despite success in an initial
skirmish, the Thayans were badly beaten in the next
battle.
The Zulkir of Necromancy proposed a deal to the
Tuigan: magical aid for a Tuigan invasion of Rashemen
if the Horde left Thay untouched. (The
Rashemi witches and Rashemaar berserkers still
managed to stop the Thay-assisted horse-warriors,
though parts of their lands were occupied until King
Azounís crusade defeated the Horde once and for
all.)
In 1362, Szass Tam even worked with a group of
Harpers to defeat the plan of the then-zulkir of Alteration,
the Red Wizard known as MALIGOR. |
Edited by - Dark_Lord on 04 Jan 2003 10:57:30 |
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Lost Elph
Seeker
USA
61 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2003 : 05:13:15
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I`d have to say Gandalf. Everyone one Middle Earth knows his name, that and I had a Lord of the Rings calender and during the month that had the pic of him I would talk to him.....sad huh?  |
I`m not lost, my dreams are.
I am one of those people who go through life unseen, but I don`t think of it as a bad thing, no I think of it as an opportunity |
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Feanor_Karnil
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2003 : 00:32:04
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| I would say the great Elminster because he is practically some old cool guy with a cool sword and an eversmoking pipe. Sure Gandalf is cool but his life span in the books are short, and Merlin is cool too but he is a bit out-dated. Elminster will last a long time, for generations, and when he dies he will surely be in most legends. |
We live in a bleak world my friend, where heroes are few and shadows stalk us around every corner.
-Mikai Daerni |
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Topic |
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Who is THE greybeard?
