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Sourcemaster2
Senior Scribe
USA
361 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Jun 2004 : 04:33:30
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Although clerical spells are obviously not as destruction-oriented as a wizards, they do have some blasting prayers. It makes since for them to focus on healing, but you rarely see anything beyond that, bar a few defensive/augmenting magics(excepting only the Cleric Quintet). Only dark clerics like the drow clergy hurl smiting spells. Even fairly low-level clergy can throw a sound burst or searing light, and higher-level spells like flame strike are pretty potent. Only blade barriers are used with any frequency, which is strange, since it isn't a low-level spell itself. I know that a priest's role is primarily that of a healer/defender, but that doesn't mean that they can't blow up a few enemies(to be a bit blunt)
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But what have all the passing years/Done, but breed new angers, fears?/Show me now an equal worth/To innocence I earned at birth. |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2004 : 06:41:05
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I agree. Many priests have powerful offensive spells, such as Earthquake, Sunray, Fire Storm, Storm of Vengaence, etc. Way too mayn PCs understimate priests and clerics as "wimpy healers", which lead to their downfalls.
In many campaigns I've seen my friends laugh when fighting a cleric of Bane and then next thing they know, they are tied down to some altar about to be sacrificed. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Hymn
Senior Scribe
Sweden
514 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2004 : 07:18:08
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
I agree. Many priests have powerful offensive spells, such as Earthquake, Sunray, Fire Storm, Storm of Vengaence, etc. Way too mayn PCs understimate priests and clerics as "wimpy healers", which lead to their downfalls.
In many campaigns I've seen my friends laugh when fighting a cleric of Bane and then next thing they know, they are tied down to some altar about to be sacrificed.
Aah, yes. Almost as good as picking of adventurers as that early low level goblin horde 
Clerics of evil AL also have those nice inflict wound spells among other things. |
Sauro moki kara ochiro - Even monkeys falls from trees.
The path that leads to truth is littered with the bodies of the ignorant - Miyamoto Musashi |
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Cherrn
Learned Scribe
Denmark
323 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2004 : 14:13:32
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It's common for people to consider clerics weak even though they aren't.
As a cleric there are buffs that can bring you close to a fighters BAB, you can heal, you can wear heavy armour, and you also have a whole arsenal of destructive spells if you just care to look for them (harm anyone?).
Clerics are IMO the most powerful class in 3rd ed and 3.5 ed. |
A wise man from Calimport once told me: "If a merchant puts sand in the flask of oil he's trying to sell you, then he isn't trying to sell you sand..." |
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Lashan
Learned Scribe
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2004 : 15:12:29
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| And don't forget spells such as hold person! These spells have made clerics feared at lower levels by generations of gamers. |
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2004 : 15:24:21
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Clerics are actually a versatile class. Try launching the group-raising spells, then the flame strike and the divine punish, and when they're crying use the blades-barriers and squish the rest of them.
Really funny!!!  |
"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
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Chyron
Learned Scribe
Hong Kong
279 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2004 : 06:26:39
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I am going to play a bit of devil’s advocate here. I agree that the cleric class is commonly misconceived as the healer or medic and not very good offensively.
Yet I also disagree that they are mage equivalents at high levels. Now I am not talking about offensive or defensive power, but rather restrictive power. I don’t have my books in front of me at the moment, but in one of the older editions it was written somewhere that cleric spells of high level were granted directly by the deity while lesser spells were handled by celestial servants of the deity. Now regardless of what processes you want to say actually occur. I still strongly believe that it is only through the will of the deity that a cleric may cast a spell of 7th level or above.
Now most players say…so what? They don’t care about the mechanics as it were and just want to unleash fiery destruction or shake the earth. But as a DM I call into question the motivations of the cleric calling forth the divine power. If I feel they are not in line with the deities will then such powers are withheld in that instance. Wizards and sorcerers are under no such watchful restrictions.
So what exactly does it mean to be in line with the deities will? Well of course this is subjective from DM to DM but I feel many gamers give free reign to clerics to do as ‘they’ will and often players can easily stray from the real role of cleric. Video games have turned the class into basically an armored mage who can heal without any accounting of responsibility for that power. But such should not be the case in high level PnP campaigns. It is simply as if the deity has stated, “I give you this power, now do as you will” when in fact it should be “I give you this power, now do as I will!”
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Just My Thoughts
Chyron :)
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Edited by - Chyron on 02 Jun 2004 06:27:57 |
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Darkheyr
Learned Scribe
264 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2004 : 07:42:00
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*nod*
Clerics in my campaigns better don't try to smite a fellow faithful for example...
I also don't always grant the exact spell wishes a player requests. In fact, I even cheat a spell or two into the day's selection if I feel that the party is really going to need it... Sometimes. |
silm.pw - A Neverwinter Nights Persistent World |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2004 : 03:27:33
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Chyron, I agree with most of your post. However, wizards and sorcerers also have restriction but most of the time we don't realize it. They depend on the Weave and if anything happens to it, they are screwed. For example, in The Temptation of Elminster when magic stopped working for a period and also several more times where the weave has stopped working in the history of Faerun. ToT doesn't count because divine spells stopped working all together so it's not exactly a good example. Then there are anti-magic fields or spheres (do these work on divine magic too?) that can deprive a wizard of all spells and magic he tries to use.
Also, Mystra has been known to deny some magic-users the weave if they abuse their power or do things that offend her. Plus, her chosens have curses (forgot the name of the spell) that prevents a person from using magic and everytime he uses it, it causes the person to become weaker, along with other side-effects. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Hymn
Senior Scribe
Sweden
514 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2004 : 03:50:34
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Chyron, I agree with most of your post. However, wizards and sorcerers also have restriction but most of the time we don't realize it. They depend on the Weave and if anything happens to it, they are screwed. For example, in The Temptation of Elminster when magic stopped working for a period and also several more times where the weave has stopped working in the history of Faerun. ToT doesn't count because divine spells stopped working all together so it's not exactly a good example. Then there are anti-magic fields or spheres (do these work on divine magic too?) that can deprive a wizard of all spells and magic he tries to use.
Also, Mystra has been known to deny some magic-users the weave if they abuse their power or do things that offend her. Plus, her chosens have curses (forgot the name of the spell) that prevents a person from using magic and everytime he uses it, it causes the person to become weaker, along with other side-effects.
Yes that is so but I wouldn't see these as restrictions more like obstacles that can be overcome or bypassed. So I don't see them as a whole effect since they only effect the wizard / sorcerer in question and not the wizard / sorcerer class as a whole. The loss of the weave would count as the exception in this case I guess. |
Sauro moki kara ochiro - Even monkeys falls from trees.
The path that leads to truth is littered with the bodies of the ignorant - Miyamoto Musashi |
Edited by - Tethtoril on 03 Jun 2004 04:18:23 |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2004 : 04:10:22
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True, true. For the wizards that are denied the Weave by Mystra, I guess they could always beg Shar for the Shadow Weave, right? Lol.
But there is always instability in the Weave. Even Mystra's emotions would cause magic to run wild or crazy. For example, in Elminster in Hell, Mystra got angry after realizing that the Sage of Shadowdale is stuck in Hell and we were told what impact it had on Faerun. A tower in Myth Drannor fell for no reason and the wards of Aghairon's tower fails for the first time in history, and in that period it allowed a little girl to walk in, who was never seen again. I'm just saying that the Weave is so intertwined (sp?) with Mystra, that even the emotions or actions of Mystra will affect or damage it, which in turn affects the magic-users of the Realms. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2004 : 08:59:08
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To choose 'The Art' or 'The Power', that tis the question. While I too agree that Clerics have the ability to be powerhouses, I have never seen (although we would like to see it done) a restriction on the higher level cleric spells. After all, a cleric that could cast the most powerful spells would have to worry of not only doing the Deity's will but perhaps even required duties to the Church in general (not many clerics go around casting 9th level spells). To add to this Clerics could (in theory) make a desperate plea to their deity for aid.
A DM of ours allowed us this one shot chance (D% success upon a 100 percent) of course he was cruel as We rolled a 1, and suffered dire consequences for bothering the deity with a trival matter.
A cleric should be allowed to plead for somesort of aid/intervention from their deity of course as our DM showed a very long shot.
Question, the Chosen Curses, do they deny only the Art or both the Art and the Power? |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
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Offensive Cleric
