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Originally posted by Ayrik

I just simplify things.

Stick with pre-4E editions and pre-4E lore in which 4E doesn't exist and never happened.

Or move onto post-4E editions and post-4E lore which attempt to retcon the retcon so 4E is something "optional" you can handwave or pretend halfway exists only as necessary for your preferences.

Trying to go straight into the middle and use 4E rules with not-4E lore is just more effort than it's worth, in my opinion. I don't waste my time fixing things that other people broke.

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No one knows who or what the Lady of Pain is. The undisputed and uncaring ruler of Sigil, the hub of the Outer Planes, it is by her might that deities and powerful magics do not intrude upon the City of Doors. Her powers and actions mark her as something both more and less than a deity. While she demonstrates the power to prevent all other deities from intruding upon her city and the ability to create demi planes (the Mazes) at will, possesses no worshipers—actively dissuading and destroying those who would dare pray to her—and has never exhibited power outside her city.

Numerous theories seek to explain the Lady of Pain and her role within Sigil, The most farfetched possibilities suggest that she might be a personification of Sigil itself or its countless philosophies, a reformed demon lord, a being hatched from a dab us egg by the dragon god lo, or an aspect of a dead god of portals. More elaborate possibilities have also been posed. The Planescape novel Pages of Pain suggests that the Lady of Pain might be a daughter of the Greek god Poseidon, while the video game Pi * Nescafe: Torment implies that the lady of Pain is a prisoner bound at the heart of the Outer Planes and that Sigil is her cage.

Additionally, some suggest that she is one of the unknowable Ancient Brethren—manifestations of primal forces- and existent since the formation of the multiverse—and that her role is one of key multiplanar concern: protection of Sigil The City of Doors has always been held ari a place of unique importance at the heart of the Outer Planes, where all philosophies might meld and mix. Some have even suggested that Sigil is the keystone upon which the Outer Planes rely, and that all the planes’ stability rests on the physical and philosophical peace of the city. Should one philosophy ever forcibly take hold, particularly through invasion or godly intervention* that change would be accounted for in the ordering, reordering, destruction, or creation of various Outer Planes- Thus, this theory proposes that it is the role of the Lady of Pain to maintain the status quo within Sigil, lest the multiverse be fundamentally changed (see Die Vecna Die),

Although little can be proven or deemed true about the Lady of Pain in D&D, outside of those realms inspiration for the Lady of Pain is drawn directly from the titular character in a poem by Algernon Charles Swinburne, “Dolores (Notre-Dame de* Sept Poulencs)" Le. r "Dolores (Our Lady of Seven Sorrows)."

Regardless, what is known for sure about the Lady of Pain is very little besides that she is an embodiment of the mysteries of Sigil and all the planes found beyond her city's countless doors.

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Originally posted by Diffan

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Originally posted by Ayrik


Trying to go straight into the middle and use 4E rules with not-4E lore is just more effort than it's worth, in my opinion. I don't waste my time fixing things that other people broke.

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I've played 4e rules in pre-4e timelines. There's really no significant change with the Lore except -maybe if you make it a bit deal- "eladrin" as Moon/Sun/Star elves. Most people on Faerûn still just call them gold or sun elves. Wizards still use spellbooks, Clerics still pray, paladins still Smite, etc.

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Originally posted by Mournblade

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Originally posted by Diffan

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Originally posted by Ayrik


Trying to go straight into the middle and use 4E rules with not-4E lore is just more effort than it's worth, in my opinion. I don't waste my time fixing things that other people broke.

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I've played 4e rules in pre-4e timelines. There's really no significant change with the Lore except -maybe if you make it a bit deal- "eladrin" as Moon/Sun/Star elves. Most people on Faerûn still just call them gold or sun elves. Wizards still use spellbooks, Clerics still pray, paladins still Smite, etc.

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I know that Richard Baker has a mandate to bring the realms to a more accessible level, but I think many of the Forgotten Realms fans would have stuck with the 4e rules set if the Lore was not changed all around or brought up 100 years. My problem with 4e was FR Lore more than ruleset.

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