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DoveArrow
Seeker
94 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Aug 2023 : 07:53:12
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This is the second time I've tried playing in Out of the Abyss and I have to say, I don't understand how anyone finds the opening to this adventure fun. The characters start off in prison. The drow make the characters do meaningless tasks for what feels like an eternity. If you do anything that upsets the drow, they do ungodly amounts of damage to you. You learn nothing about anything from them. There's no real way to escape. If you try to escape, it means almost certain death. And so you just... sit around for literally hours of real world time waiting for the demon attack that you aren't supposed to know is coming. It's like they went out of their way to create an hours long introduction that goes nowhere and affects nothing.
This doesn't feel like a professionally designed intro. This feels like the intro I would expect from a first time DM on a power trip. What is the point of this introduction? How did an entire design team look at this and say, "Yup. This is fine."
I recognize that the rest of the adventure is better, but I'm just wondering, what are players supposed to do during this point in the game except wait for the actual story to start?
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Edited by - DoveArrow on 12 Aug 2023 15:43:05
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2023 : 12:52:18
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I would ignore the intro and replace with something like the caravan ride to Mantol Daerith in the Menzoberranzan boxed set. If you think the Out of the Abyss intro was bad, check out what one of our former scribes concocted:
http://candlekeep.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=23357 |
Edited by - Delnyn on 12 Aug 2023 12:53:14 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7923 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2023 : 14:08:02
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quote:
How did an entire design team look at this and say, "Yup. This is fine."
They didn't playtest the module. Or they didn't write it well, forgot to mention the interesting narrative. Or they just don't care. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36753 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2023 : 18:48:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn
I would ignore the intro and replace with something like the caravan ride to Mantol Daerith in the Menzoberranzan boxed set. If you think the Out of the Abyss intro was bad, check out what one of our former scribes concocted:
http://candlekeep.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=23357
That was one hell of a discussion... KingArchCEV was a piece of work; I think he'd be a great subject for a dissertation by a psychology major. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2405 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2023 : 20:33:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
quote:
How did an entire design team look at this and say, "Yup. This is fine."
They didn't playtest the module. Or they didn't write it well, forgot to mention the interesting narrative. Or they just don't care.
The early 5e adventures are known for having a lot of issues and bad writing. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7923 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2023 : 08:09:02
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lol the early 1E modules were sometimes awful products, poorly written, half-unplayable.
But you'd think that they'd refine the formula and adhere to higher standards decades later when 5E was the new thing. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2023 : 14:04:39
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| If I remember correctly, some of those early modules such as G1-3: Against the Giants came out before the Dungeon Master's Guide was published. I wonder if TSR cut corners on the module to devote more time on DMG. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7923 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2023 : 14:26:55
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My point was that they should know what they're doing after four decades and five iterations.
So when they release products which fail to meet the minimum standards, it can only be because (one way or another) they simply don't care anymore. They've already published the DMG at least five times now so being unable to reference or integrate the adventure with the DMG is not a valid excuse anymore. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 13 Aug 2023 14:29:20 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36753 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2023 : 15:49:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
My point was that they should know what they're doing after four decades and five iterations.
So when they release products which fail to meet the minimum standards, it can only be because (one way or another) they simply don't care anymore. They've already published the DMG at least five times now so being unable to reference or integrate the adventure with the DMG is not a valid excuse anymore.
Part of the problem is that the current design team seems determined NOT to look at prior material...
And I am convinced that there is no one at WotC empowered (or willing) to say "okay, look, I'm sure you did put a lot of thought into this, and it's clear this thing is your baby, but we can't go with this as written. X has to be dialed way back, and Y simply has to go." |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2023 : 17:36:17
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| WoTC could have avoided the fuss by not using FR as the default setting. The Points of Light setting from 4E would have served admirably well. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36753 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2023 : 18:32:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn
WoTC could have avoided the fuss by not using FR as the default setting. The Points of Light setting from 4E would have served admirably well.
Oh, there are MANY missteps WotC could have avoided by not using the Realms! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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PattPlays
Senior Scribe
464 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2023 : 21:02:58
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quote:
Originally posted by DoveArrow
This is the second time I've tried playing in Out of the Abyss and I have to say, I don't understand how anyone finds the opening to this adventure fun. The characters start off in prison. The drow make the characters do meaningless tasks for what feels like an eternity. If you do anything that upsets the drow, they do ungodly amounts of damage to you. You learn nothing about anything from them. There's no real way to escape. If you try to escape, it means almost certain death. And so you just... sit around for literally hours of real world time waiting for the demon attack that you aren't supposed to know is coming. It's like they went out of their way to create an hours long introduction that goes nowhere and affects nothing.
This doesn't feel like a professionally designed intro. This feels like the intro I would expect from a first time DM on a power trip. What is the point of this introduction? How did an entire design team look at this and say, "Yup. This is fine."
I recognize that the rest of the adventure is better, but I'm just wondering, what are players supposed to do during this point in the game except wait for the actual story to start?
Then just start at lvl 5 with an original 'in' to the northdark. |
:The world's greatest OOTA fan/critic: :"Powder kegs within powder kegs!": :Meta-Dimensional Cheese: :Why is the Wand of Orcus just back?: :We still don't know the nature of Souls and the Positive Energy Plane: :PC on profile, Aldritch Elpyptrat Maxinfield: :Helljumpers, Bungie.net: :Rock Hard Gladiator, RIP Fluidanim, Long Live Pluto: :IRC lives:
https://thisisstorytelling.wordpress.com
T_P_T |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1475 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2023 : 00:34:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn
I would ignore the intro and replace with something like the caravan ride to Mantol Daerith in the Menzoberranzan boxed set. If you think the Out of the Abyss intro was bad, check out what one of our former scribes concocted:
http://candlekeep.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=23357
That was one hell of a discussion... KingArchCEV was a piece of work; I think he'd be a great subject for a dissertation by a psychology major.
I once did an Erevan Ilsere stat sheet just to spite him. It's half-finished on my HD. |
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2023 : 19:27:13
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quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
I once did an Erevan Ilsere stat sheet just to spite him. It's half-finished on my HD.
LoB,
Could you send the stat sheet to me via PM? I could use the laughs, even if the stat sheet is not finished. |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
943 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2023 : 04:05:26
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| I really enjoyed Out of the Abyss. The first chapter does require the DM to move things along, however. |
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2023 : 14:42:32
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| Out of the Abyss gave me that "Alice in Wonderland" impression. |
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Out of the Abyss (How is this Fun?)
