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MandarinB
Acolyte
USA
28 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Nov 2022 : 00:56:23
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Hello, everyone. My campaign is visiting the High Moor soon, and I want to incorporate the barbarians that are eluded to in the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide and detailed in Elminster's Ecology of the High Moor. One thing that I can't find information on is the origin of these barbarians. They are culturally distinct from the Uthgardt, and as far as I've been able to see, there isn't a stated language or origin, or even a culture name for these barbarians?
I was wondering whether any of you knew of other resources regarding these people, or have already given them an origin in your own Realms games.
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2022 : 03:00:19
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"Northmen" are described in 2E Savage Frontier and The North. They are sea raiders who originated around the Moonshae Islands. All of the Uthgardt tribes and some of Moonshae Ffolk (whom they've raped and pillaged for generations) are descended from them. Many people from Waterdeep to Baldur's Gate (and beyond) possess some "Northmen" ancestry.
They use longboats to conduct a mix of commerce, piracy, and raiding across the upper Sword Coast. They'll take gold but they tend to value useful resources more. Their berserkers are fearsome combatants. They are barbarians (of a sort), they are led by shamans and skalds. They are suspicious of magic. They hate elves a lot and dwarves a little. They look and act much like generic Vikings, though they rarely take slaves or prisoners.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Northlander |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 14 Nov 2022 03:12:06 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2022 : 10:26:35
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The only info is in the original 1E FR Campaign boxed set and is scant. Eric Boyd and I have theorised a little about them but have concentrated on the Uthgardt to date. There are no other resources.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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MandarinB
Acolyte
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2022 : 11:44:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
"Northmen" are described in 2E Savage Frontier and The North. They are sea raiders who originated around the Moonshae Islands. All of the Uthgardt tribes and some of Moonshae Ffolk (whom they've raped and pillaged for generations) are descended from them. Many people from Waterdeep to Baldur's Gate (and beyond) possess some "Northmen" ancestry.
They use longboats to conduct a mix of commerce, piracy, and raiding across the upper Sword Coast. They'll take gold but they tend to value useful resources more. Their berserkers are fearsome combatants. They are barbarians (of a sort), they are led by shamans and skalds. They are suspicious of magic. They hate elves a lot and dwarves a little. They look and act much like generic Vikings, though they rarely take slaves or prisoners.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Northlander
Them being of Northlander origin makes sense, though they have definitely since lost their touch for sailing if they are living as tribes within the High Moor. That would mean they probably have a language related to Bothii, or to those Illuskan languages... though I am not sure whether it would be a distinct language by this point or a dialect of Bothii due to them not being Uthgardt.
I still need to find or come up with a name, but knowing their Northlander roots will make detailing their religion and some traditions easier for me.
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
The only info is in the original 1E FR Campaign boxed set and is scant. Eric Boyd and I have theorised a little about them but have concentrated on the Uthgardt to date. There are no other resources.
-- George Krashos
I'll look into this source, thank you.  |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2022 : 12:32:04
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The 1E set said they have "tertiary abilities" - which would be proficiency slots or feats in animal handling, long distance signaling, and running. They don't keep large animals, so no livestock, and they fight with spears, ornate two-handed swords, and short bows.
For my two cents, for a desolate wasteland, The High Moor sure seems like the most crowded place in the Realms. They have a secret magic elven empire, an ancient shadow empire, a couple dragon families ruling their own little places, humanoid tribes all over, etc. etc.
The best thing published set on the Moor was Erik's articles / adventures in Dungeon Magazine. |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
985 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2022 : 14:42:45
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| Also check out Elminister's Ecologies Appendix II: The High Moor/The Serpent Hills. I has a page and half description of them and a picture. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12011 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2022 : 21:47:50
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quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
Also check out Elminister's Ecologies Appendix II: The High Moor/The Serpent Hills. I has a page and half description of them and a picture.
From this description, I'd be more inclined to call these guys nomadic shepherds of sheep and goats with druidic tendencies and less "barbarians". I say that especially because of this statement by Ed
The humans of the High Moor are considered barbarians by most other humans. I suppose it's all a matter of point of view. To the humans of the towns and cities, the High Moor tribes (clans, really) must seem barbarous since they don't have permanent settlements and their ways are rough. On the other hand, I'm seminomadic myself, so I can't say I find the locals all that different as people, and to be honest, I've always thought the travelers from settled lands to have some pretty barbarous ideas
Out of curiosity... might they be descendants of the Talfir that maybe bred with others? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 14 Nov 2022 22:04:25 |
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deserk
Learned Scribe
Norway
239 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2022 : 22:51:59
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I'm guessing they are a splinter group of the Tethyrian tribes that migrated northwards to the Western Heartlands and never went civilized like the rest? Otherwise I would expect they would have been referred to as an Uthgardt tribe in the books. Especially in Elminster's Ecologies which described them more fully than elsewhere.
I feel like I've read instances in 1E/2E FR lore that talks about there being barbarians in the Western Heartlands, but I can't for the moment seem to find the sources. But if true, I wonder if these instances refer only to those of the High Moor, or if there are other places populated by similar groups.
Edit: I did actually find an instance in FRCS 3E (pg. 22) "(barbarian) tribes ranging across the Western Heartlands." |
Edited by - deserk on 14 Nov 2022 23:07:43 |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
985 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2022 : 16:35:24
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I agree with Sleyvas, I think the use of "barbarian" in this context is more pejorative than game mechanics. That is there are not necessarily lots of npcs with the barbarian class as there likely would be with the Uthgardt or Northmen or Rashemi.
I'm also on board with mixed lineages, which frankly the Tethyrians are and which likely includes some Talfir, but also maybe some Netherese. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6383 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12011 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2022 : 18:33:29
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quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
I agree with Sleyvas, I think the use of "barbarian" in this context is more pejorative than game mechanics. That is there are not necessarily lots of npcs with the barbarian class as there likely would be with the Uthgardt or Northmen or Rashemi.
I'm also on board with mixed lineages, which frankly the Tethyrians are and which likely includes some Talfir, but also maybe some Netherese.
Yeah, I was very much leaning on that Talfir mixed with Netherese survivors as an idea. I'm kind of picturing them as nomads because possibly they lost their homes and ended up having to take up this kind of life, even though I know that nomads occur naturally in the world. I think it could make a decent story if they had to flee something and take up residence in the high moor and that it eventually "stuck" after a generation. Not exactly sure where to take it though. It would definitely fit if they were survivors of the Fallen Kingdom (i.e. Phalorm), maybe even survivors from the Horde of the Wastes whose houses were destroyed or somesuch. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 15 Nov 2022 18:36:55 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6383 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2022 : 18:54:46
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
I agree with Sleyvas, I think the use of "barbarian" in this context is more pejorative than game mechanics. That is there are not necessarily lots of npcs with the barbarian class as there likely would be with the Uthgardt or Northmen or Rashemi.
I'm also on board with mixed lineages, which frankly the Tethyrians are and which likely includes some Talfir, but also maybe some Netherese.
Yeah, I was very much leaning on that Talfir mixed with Netherese survivors as an idea. I'm kind of picturing them as nomads because possibly they lost their homes and ended up having to take up this kind of life, even though I know that nomads occur naturally in the world. I think it could make a decent story if they had to flee something and take up residence in the high moor and that it eventually "stuck" after a generation. Not exactly sure where to take it though. It would definitely fit if they were survivors of the Fallen Kingdom (i.e. Phalorm), maybe even survivors from the Horde of the Wastes whose houses were destroyed or somesuch.
I think you are forgetting that the High Moor is not a wasteland and people have likely eked out a living there for some time.
I'm imagining that a group of people not able to live in the Western Heartlands because of the giants that dominated, and forced out of the Serpent Hills etc by the Netherese exodus, and were then subjugated by Ebenfar (which did not rule them as such but instead hunted them like animals).
These hardy people survived all that amid the monsters and the magical calamitous lands in the High Moor, ignored or outcast by everyone else and forced to survive where no one else wanted.
Then the Netherese come and join them when the Serpent Hills is overrun by ophidians and the orcs go marauding and end the Fallen Kingdoms. I'm thinking that when people are forced into hiding in the North and the Heartlands, they go to the High Moor and end up part of these barbarians. They do not even need to be all human either, it would be nice to see a mix of elves and dwarves within this group, maybe even a few goblinoids for a change. |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2475 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2022 : 07:06:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
I think you are forgetting that the High Moor is not a wasteland and people have likely eked out a living there for some time.
From the text (Elminster's Ecologies, Appendix 2) they don't act like Uthgardt or other Northmen. So probably yes.
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
They do not even need to be all human either, it would be nice to see a mix of elves and dwarves within this group, maybe even a few goblinoids for a change.
The goblinoids live with their own tribes. As to the rest, why would either of them they do this?
Anyway, according to Bara, humans of the High Moor are nomadic tribes, "there are no elves native to the High Moor itself", only in the Misty Forest, and dwarves are not mentioned amonmg the inhabitants, only "dwarves (who once lived nearby in the Halls of the Hammer)". Only "a colony of derro thrive beneath the plateau". |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
Edited by - TBeholder on 16 Nov 2022 07:16:12 |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1727 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2022 : 20:04:32
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
I think you are forgetting that the High Moor is not a wasteland and people have likely eked out a living there for some time.
From the text (Elminster's Ecologies, Appendix 2) they don't act like Uthgardt or other Northmen. So probably yes.
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
They do not even need to be all human either, it would be nice to see a mix of elves and dwarves within this group, maybe even a few goblinoids for a change.
The goblinoids live with their own tribes. As to the rest, why would either of them they do this?
Anyway, according to Bara, humans of the High Moor are nomadic tribes, "there are no elves native to the High Moor itself", only in the Misty Forest, and dwarves are not mentioned amonmg the inhabitants, only "dwarves (who once lived nearby in the Halls of the Hammer)". Only "a colony of derro thrive beneath the plateau".
That quote of Bara's is correct as per her contemporary reports in 1358DR; however, the events of the BLACKSTAFF novel change the status quo of much of the NE quadrant of the High Moor and slowly change increasing amounts of land therein over time. Biggest changes would be garrisoning of any ancient elven ruins or buried dungeons (like Kraanfhaor's Door and others) by troops from Rhymanthiin—equal numbers of elves, half-elves, centaurs, and dwarves. More on those folk as soon as I can coax the details out of my head and through my fingers…
Steven |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Barbarians of the High Moor
