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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
2060 Posts

Posted - 23 Jul 2022 :  00:11:56  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Learn the secrets of the Nine Jewels of Neverwinter, whose existence was first revealed by the infamous Volothamp Geddarm. Contained within are secrets of the Netherese known only to the surviving wizards of Windsong Tower, the High Mages of Silverymoon, and the ever-mysterious Manshoon. Lost since the fall of Ascalhorn, these legendary magic items might turn up anywhere in your campaign, unleashing foes long forgotten.

by Eric L. Boyd & George Krashos

https://www.dmsguild.com/product/403855/Nine-Jewels-of-Neverwinter

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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/

Edited by - ericlboyd on 23 Jul 2022 04:15:40

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36773 Posts

Posted - 23 Jul 2022 :  03:50:07  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Holy carp!

I already made my purchase and just saw the part on Manshoon. Whoa, did not see that coming, but I like the idea.

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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
3279 Posts

Posted - 23 Jul 2022 :  03:54:27  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Indeed.

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36773 Posts

Posted - 23 Jul 2022 :  04:36:57  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just read the whole thing... Wow, that is some awesome stuff! I like how everything was threaded together.

And I'm still pondering all the implications of the info about Manshoon.

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6347 Posts

Posted - 23 Jul 2022 :  06:37:20  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Not quite as big a mystery, but I found ecamane truesilvers origin story to be equally interesting and satisfying.

It's a shame markustay isnt around for the big manshoon reveal, he spent many years pondering it.

I got my copy, into the archive it goes. Loving the new old Forgotten Realms setting.

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Edited by - Gary Dallison on 23 Jul 2022 08:42:49
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
2060 Posts

Posted - 23 Jul 2022 :  19:39:33  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I was asked in another forum about the inspiration for the last surprise at the end. In addition to an unpublished short story by Ed, "Shadows of Doom," page 308, "Cloak of Shadows," page 106, Polyhedron #83, page 30, Ruins of Zhentil Keep - Campaign Book, pages 13-14, 28, are all of interest.

--Eric

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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
3279 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2022 :  13:57:15  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks Eric

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep
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Balmar Foghaven
Learned Scribe

Canada
124 Posts

Posted - 27 Jul 2022 :  02:46:10  Show Profile Send Balmar Foghaven a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Just read the whole thing... Wow, that is some awesome stuff! I like how everything was threaded together.

And I'm still pondering all the implications of the info about Manshoon.



Yes, same here. It seems to me that the latest generation of clones in 5e are heavily implied to be developing their own personalities, so I am curious about how far they've diverged from the source... and just how badly did Cyric mess with the stasis clones for a master of the spell to lose control like that?

Things to ponder...

"Despair not, for in the end all things shall work out for the best - in at least one timeline."
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6629 Posts

Posted - 27 Jul 2022 :  04:33:52  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What makes you think it was Cyric who messed with Manshoon’s “stasis clone” spell?

— George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36773 Posts

Posted - 27 Jul 2022 :  05:28:29  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've always thought it was the presence of a vampire clone that threw everything off, but I seem to recall reading something, somewhere, that said this wasn't the case.

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Balmar Foghaven
Learned Scribe

Canada
124 Posts

Posted - 27 Jul 2022 :  13:52:42  Show Profile Send Balmar Foghaven a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

What makes you think it was Cyric who messed with Manshoon’s “stasis clone” spell?

— George Krashos



I vaguely recall it being mentioned somewhere that the mad god had a hand in meddling with the clones and possibly resulted in all of them waking simultaneously. I don't remember if it was on the wiki, this forum, or perhaps another forum but it could have just been a theory.

"Despair not, for in the end all things shall work out for the best - in at least one timeline."
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11669 Posts

Posted - 28 Jul 2022 :  00:58:53  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I equate it to the idea that new souls were created in order to bring all the clones to life. While clone creates a duplicate piece of flesh, it still essentially just migrates the soul in most instances. Having all of them awaken at once would imply that copies of the soul were generated.... but while the spell copies flesh perfectly, how well does it copy souls? So, like photocopies of photocopies, I imagine there's some degradation.... and then there's the divergence based on the things that happen to them afterward that would slowly shape them in different directions.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore

USA
1289 Posts

Posted - 30 Jul 2022 :  06:03:19  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Very nice. Didn't see the Manshoon thing coming.

A bit of feedback. Your paragraph formatting isn't consistent. Paragraphs at the start of most columns are not indented except on page 4, column 2. All other paragraphs are indented. Might I suggest that even paragraphs at the start of columns also be indented just to make it clear it is the start of a new paragraph and they are all formatted the same way.

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36773 Posts

Posted - 30 Jul 2022 :  17:18:18  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

I equate it to the idea that new souls were created in order to bring all the clones to life. While clone creates a duplicate piece of flesh, it still essentially just migrates the soul in most instances. Having all of them awaken at once would imply that copies of the soul were generated.... but while the spell copies flesh perfectly, how well does it copy souls? So, like photocopies of photocopies, I imagine there's some degradation.... and then there's the divergence based on the things that happen to them afterward that would slowly shape them in different directions.



I would disagree. Look at the example with Alias and Dragonbait -- splitting an infinite thing still leaves you an infinite thing.

Of course, you could say that the soul isn't infinite, and that what happened was a fragmentation of Manshoon's soul among the clones -- which could explain why, when near each other, they felt compelled to fight. Changing the body from being something that isn't a direct duplicate of Manshoon would have an impact on the soul, perhaps, allowing it to change enough to start growing into something new.

Either way, I don't like the idea of new souls being created from scratch, because that should be something involving divine intervention, and that complicates things. It's simply easier to break up one soul into smaller parts -- regardless of whether or not the soul is infinite -- and then have each grow to something new.

To me, one of the most interesting ideas about the whole Manshoon Wars thing was something Ed said a while ago:

quote:
Gerath Hoan, about Manshoon: I of course prefer my original, but the gorget (which of course by its name should be a throat collar, and not any sort of mask) is okay as a distinctive look for ONE of the clones. I prefer to think the REAL Manshoon is in hiding somewhere, watching his “lesser selves” operating, and awaiting his chance to strike at Fzoul at the same time as one of his clones does. It’s not just a matter of revenge, it’s a matter of Fzoul’s perversion of the Zhentarim into something less subtle and less effective than Manshoon intended it to be, more tied to the gods and less to subtly ruling and influencing Faerun through an ever-stronger brotherhood of mages (something Mystra would of course have supported, once Manshoon got past the “culling the magelings” stage).
I’ll get back to you with some suggestions on what some of the Manshoons are ‘up to’ (particularly the one co-operating with Fzoul in the Zhentarim).



This would imply that somehow, this "REAL" Manshoon (whom I will dub "Manshoon Alpha") somehow activated a clone but himself stayed active, and that all of the existing clones proceed in a line from this Manshoon Beta. Maybe it was Manshoon Rho or Manshoon Upsilon whose demise triggered the Manshoon Wars, but Alpha is still out there...

Here's a thought: Manshoon Alpha, the one in the original, natural-born body of Manshoon, crafted his first clone, and somehow figured out how to activate this clone. But before activating it, he made some modifications to it. I think he might have altered Beta's memories, so that Beta -- and thus every Manshoon after him -- would not know of Jemmoryn, and would instead have the memories of the original Manshoon, coupled with altered memories of this Manshoon becoming a wizard and rising to power. This would mean that Beta and all the rest think themselves the real Manshoon, and would be ignorant of -- and thus unwilling to look for and challenge! -- Jemmoryn. I would suggest a further tweak that allows Jemmoryn a subtle control of the clones; maybe he can "ride" a clone without their awareness, and/or give them something akin to suggestions that steer them in a desired direction.

After making these tweaks, then Alpha/Jemmoryn activates Beta. Immediately, as soon as Beta was active, Jemmoryn changed Alpha's body to be like Jemmoryn's original body. Now Jemmoryn is free to do his own thing, but he's also able to take advantage of Manshoon Beta's position. Jemmoryn could remain entirely behind the scenes, with everything he wanted taken care of by Beta and later Manshoons, and the Zhents following Manshoon's orders.

(I think Jemmoryn would still do his own stasis clone thing, though, just in case. It's also possible that Jemmoryn was involved in triggering the Manshoon Wars; maybe he decided there were too many clones and there needed to be fewer, or maybe he decided that culling the herd was a good idea because it'd improve the remaining ones, or maybe it was caused by him "riding" the active clone at the moment of its demise)

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 30 Jul 2022 17:26:02
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36773 Posts

Posted - 30 Jul 2022 :  17:35:27  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh, holy mother of Lurue! I've just had a further thought...

Assuming Jemmoryn did all of that with Manshoon Beta -- what's to stop him from doing it again?

If he could do all of that once, it would make sense to do it more than once. Maybe Jemmoryn has made and altered many clones, sending them out into the world thinking they're their own entities and that they're pursuing their own goals -- but they're all acting in Jemmoryn's interests. (Or maybe he nudges wizards into finding a copy of the stasis clone spell, modifies the first clone they make, and then kills the original)

I think it unlikely that there would be a huge number of his modified clones out there; he'd likely only have a handful active at any given time. But a handful at a time, over more than a century, can still do a lot.

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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore

USA
1289 Posts

Posted - 30 Jul 2022 :  18:33:44  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Oh, holy mother of Lurue! I've just had a further thought...

Assuming Jemmoryn did all of that with Manshoon Beta -- what's to stop him from doing it again?

If he could do all of that once, it would make sense to do it more than once. Maybe Jemmoryn has made and altered many clones, sending them out into the world thinking they're their own entities and that they're pursuing their own goals -- but they're all acting in Jemmoryn's interests. (Or maybe he nudges wizards into finding a copy of the stasis clone spell, modifies the first clone they make, and then kills the original)

I think it unlikely that there would be a huge number of his modified clones out there; he'd likely only have a handful active at any given time. But a handful at a time, over more than a century, can still do a lot.



You toss in a delayed suggestion spell (something I just made up) and you could control scores of even average people to do what you want under specified conditions. Jemmoryn could be behind all kinds of occurances.

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6347 Posts

Posted - 30 Jul 2022 :  19:37:33  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Not a bad idea having the original manshoon still alive. It wouldnt be all that difficult to do.

The Stasis Clone spell keeps clones in stasis, thus preventing the problem of the clones from killing each other to prove they are the real deal.

The Clone spell creates a real life clone that is not in stasis.

So Manshoon A creates a clone. Manshoon A vanishes so that Manshoon B never even knew A existed. Manshoon B then uses Stasis Clone to clone himself. It is this Manshoon B that died against the lich Varalla in Darkhold, and against Elminster several times. When he is killed and his next stasis clone is undead that causes the Manshoon Wars.

Manshoon A is still wandering around with none of the clones any the wiser to his existence. I'm sure i read in one of the sourcebooks that there was a person who looked exactly like Manshoon (i think it was in Cloak and Dagger), which might mean this Manshoon A had children in the centuries he has been in hiding.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36773 Posts

Posted - 30 Jul 2022 :  20:32:09  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

Not a bad idea having the original manshoon still alive. It wouldnt be all that difficult to do.

The Stasis Clone spell keeps clones in stasis, thus preventing the problem of the clones from killing each other to prove they are the real deal.

The Clone spell creates a real life clone that is not in stasis.

So Manshoon A creates a clone. Manshoon A vanishes so that Manshoon B never even knew A existed. Manshoon B then uses Stasis Clone to clone himself. It is this Manshoon B that died against the lich Varalla in Darkhold, and against Elminster several times. When he is killed and his next stasis clone is undead that causes the Manshoon Wars.

Manshoon A is still wandering around with none of the clones any the wiser to his existence. I'm sure i read in one of the sourcebooks that there was a person who looked exactly like Manshoon (i think it was in Cloak and Dagger), which might mean this Manshoon A had children in the centuries he has been in hiding.



Except the clone spell creates a duplicate with all the memories of the original, and in earlier editions, the clone and the original will try to kill each other if they're both active. In 5E, there's no possibility of clone and original being active at the same time, because the clone doesn't activate until the original dies.

So, regardless of edition, there's got to be some specialized magic involved to have both active at once, without trying to kill each other, and without the clone knowing it's a clone.

In Cloak & Dagger, which gave us the Manshoon Wars, it was stated that if a Manshoon became anything other than a living clone of Manshoon, it would be free of the compulsion to kill other Manshoon clones.

Hence, my idea of making the first clone, modifying its memories, and then using some special method to activate it. Other than not having published spells allowing the deliberate activation of a statis clone, my idea works with existing lore Ed has shared, officially published Realmslore, the not-official-but-really-should-be stuff like this, and the published rules.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 30 Jul 2022 20:33:27
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11669 Posts

Posted - 30 Jul 2022 :  20:55:56  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

Not a bad idea having the original manshoon still alive. It wouldnt be all that difficult to do.

The Stasis Clone spell keeps clones in stasis, thus preventing the problem of the clones from killing each other to prove they are the real deal.

The Clone spell creates a real life clone that is not in stasis.

So Manshoon A creates a clone. Manshoon A vanishes so that Manshoon B never even knew A existed. Manshoon B then uses Stasis Clone to clone himself. It is this Manshoon B that died against the lich Varalla in Darkhold, and against Elminster several times. When he is killed and his next stasis clone is undead that causes the Manshoon Wars.

Manshoon A is still wandering around with none of the clones any the wiser to his existence. I'm sure i read in one of the sourcebooks that there was a person who looked exactly like Manshoon (i think it was in Cloak and Dagger), which might mean this Manshoon A had children in the centuries he has been in hiding.



Except the clone spell creates a duplicate with all the memories of the original, and in earlier editions, the clone and the original will try to kill each other if they're both active. In 5E, there's no possibility of clone and original being active at the same time, because the clone doesn't activate until the original dies.

So, regardless of edition, there's got to be some specialized magic involved to have both active at once, without trying to kill each other, and without the clone knowing it's a clone.

In Cloak & Dagger, which gave us the Manshoon Wars, it was stated that if a Manshoon became anything other than a living clone of Manshoon, it would be free of the compulsion to kill other Manshoon clones.

Hence, my idea of making the first clone, modifying its memories, and then using some special method to activate it. Other than not having published spells allowing the deliberate activation of a statis clone, my idea works with existing lore Ed has shared, officially published Realmslore, the not-official-but-really-should-be stuff like this, and the published rules.



Psychic surgery / memory modification

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore

USA
1289 Posts

Posted - 31 Jul 2022 :  00:24:32  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I was digging around and I cannot find Ecamane's cause of death. Does anyone know if it was heartstop or combat or some illness?

Edit: Also, after checking a few dates and such, there are a couple of other possible tie-ins with the story of the Nine Jewels:

Secrets of the Magisters has Jheslyra Khestellharp in Myth Drannor studying magic while the Jewels are there. It is entirely possible that her study of them aided her in the creation of her "arcanaweaves".

Several sources, including the web article Mintiper's Chapbook Part 6: Trail of Mists, list Fitzmilliyun Sparkledrim as being around prior to Ascalhorn's fall. Given the lifespan of gnomes and his probable operating in the North, it is entirely possible that he was friends with Ecamane and may have even been asked to study the Nine Jewels while they were in Ascalhorn given his skills as a caster and probable expertise in gems in general as a gnome. Perhaps, given those two data points, he was the foremost expert of the day on enchanting crystalline materials.

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents

Edited by - TheIriaeban on 31 Jul 2022 01:09:31
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
2060 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2022 :  01:30:34  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ecamane Truesilver died in 712 DR after the Battle of Silvergate due to the strain of breaking the gate from its exit point at Silverymoon Pass. See The North: Cities, page 48, and Fall of Myth Drannor, page 27. (Note the former source mispells his name "Ecmane" in several locations, making it hard to search the PDF.)

I like your other two ideas.

--Eric

quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban

I was digging around and I cannot find Ecamane's cause of death. Does anyone know if it was heartstop or combat or some illness?

Edit: Also, after checking a few dates and such, there are a couple of other possible tie-ins with the story of the Nine Jewels:

Secrets of the Magisters has Jheslyra Khestellharp in Myth Drannor studying magic while the Jewels are there. It is entirely possible that her study of them aided her in the creation of her "arcanaweaves".

Several sources, including the web article Mintiper's Chapbook Part 6: Trail of Mists, list Fitzmilliyun Sparkledrim as being around prior to Ascalhorn's fall. Given the lifespan of gnomes and his probable operating in the North, it is entirely possible that he was friends with Ecamane and may have even been asked to study the Nine Jewels while they were in Ascalhorn given his skills as a caster and probable expertise in gems in general as a gnome. Perhaps, given those two data points, he was the foremost expert of the day on enchanting crystalline materials.



--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/

Edited by - ericlboyd on 01 Aug 2022 01:31:22
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6347 Posts

Posted - 10 Aug 2022 :  19:39:52  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thinking more about things, the Zhentarim make so much more sense now that we know Manshoon's origin.

The Zhentarim are primarily a mage ruled organisation full of paranoia and secrecy, why because it mirrors the Malaugrym who are obsessed with magic and totally mistrust everyone (even their own family).

The Zhentarim treat all their members as disposable, why, because the Malaugrym treat their lesser members the same, and because Malaugrym have absolutely no regard for humanity except as food and brood mares.

The Zhentarim constantly work against Shadowdale and Elminster and his Harpers, why, because Elminster is the great foe of the Malaugrym, also explains why Manshoon has tried to kill Elminster many times.

And then there is the Malaugrym infiltration of the Zhentarim which should be incredibly difficult to achieve (because it is full of paranoia and secrecy, and yet i wonder if Manshoon allowed it on purpose and knows about the Malaugrym infiltrations the whole time.


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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2420 Posts

Posted - 10 Aug 2022 :  21:25:37  Show Profile Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Got it. Read it. Not a fan.

First, I don't mind all the stuff about the Nether Scrolls, but I've got to ask when people are going to stop rehashing them to add a bit here or change a bit there. They are like Jason - doesn't matter how many times that story gets ended, it comes back again with a new twist. Next will be Nether Scrolls In Space.

I HATE the new Manshoon story. Manshoon's back story was already fine. His personality didn't change when he killed his brother, he did what he always wanted to. He was always a scheming evil little noble - he didn't need to be possessed by a Netherese Archmage to become scheming and evil. More importantly, why did he need to learn to be a powerful mage if he was already a powerful mage, which is about 50 years of his backstory, when he already was a MAGIC JARRED powerful mage? Why isn't he a master of Netherese magics? Makes no sense. For that matter, why do we need to bring the Shadowmasters into it at all? Not every plot line has to tie together into one endlessly complicated plot. For me, the Manshoon sidebar goes right out the window. I also REALLY don't like the idea of stasis clones in Netheril. This destroys so many "this Netherese character died" endings. Instead, they are all blown wide open. If one group of Netherese Arcanists used stasis clones there is no reason to believe that the spell was not available to others.

As for the Jewels, why create the elf characters for sentiences, only to remove them and replace them with the nameless ones... More importantly, why have trapped sentiences at all if they don't amount to anything except a slightly possible new high level NPC. At the very least the jewels should unlock some kind of lost Netherese Nether Scroll lore if they are knock off kiira with the soul/mind of someone obsessed with such lore. I maybe could have bought that this was how Manshoon became an Archmage - he discovered a jewel that opened his mind to rudiments of magic like the Nether Scrolls did, taking a spoiled, evil noble teem and letting him grow into one of the most powerful wizards in the Realms much like the ancient Netherese did thousands of years before. That fits without a whole new personality in the mix.
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The Masked Mage
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Posted - 10 Aug 2022 :  21:28:53  Show Profile Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Just read the whole thing... Wow, that is some awesome stuff! I like how everything was threaded together.


This is what I mean by tying every plot together. I have the exact opposite to Wooly's response.

Everything does not need to be threaded together.
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

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Posted - 11 Aug 2022 :  00:39:05  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Always happy to take feedback, even if negative.

Some of the reasons for design choices, in case you're curious.

Shadows of Doom, page 308, reveals that the stasis clone spell dates back to ancient Netheril. One way (not the only way) to interpret the passage is that in addition to the spell, Manshoon himself dates back to Netheril.

Polyhedron #83, page 31, first revealed in print how Manshoon was a swordsman, lost his hand, killed his brother on the way home, and resolved to learn magic. This story is also told (which some confusion around dates) in Ruins of Zhentil Keep, pages 13-14. Finally, there's an unpublished short story by Ed Greenwood that tells the story of the battle in the tomb, which involved a malaugrym and a blinding flash of light. (Most of the descriptive details come from that story, which I then reinterpreted.) I always found this story odd, as Manshoon seems to become a powerful mage almost as soon as he wants immediately after this event. In my reinterpretation, that's because a powerful sentience who already was a powerful mage is playacting a rapid ascension in power.

A sapphire Netherese spell-gem is described in Cloak of Shadows, page 106. I decided to make this one of the Nine Jewels, given the aforementioned malaugrym participation in the battle in the tomb.

Most of the dates in the war between Windsong Tower and the nine Netherese arcanists are from Cormanthyr, Fall of Myth Drannor, Lost Empires of Faerun, or Anauroch: Empire of Shade. I just wove them together.

The sentiences that replaced the elves are the named Netherese at the beginning of the article. There's a list of 9 names, eight (other than the one occupying Manshoon) are still trapped.

Part of the reason for the elf sentiences was to relate them to the known wizards of Windsong Tower. The other reason was a way to weave in the second High Mage of Silverymoon who came out of nowhere and then abruptly marries an elven princess from Cormanthyr. I was trying to explain that by showing he was an elf in human form.

Finally, the goal for the Netherese sentiences was that your PCs could unleash one of them and restart an ancient battle for the Nether Scrolls.

Anyhow, sorry you didn't like it. Thanks for the feedback.

--Eric

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/

Edited by - ericlboyd on 11 Aug 2022 00:52:25
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

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Posted - 11 Aug 2022 :  01:18:11  Show Profile Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

Always happy to take feedback, even if negative.



No worries.

In general your stuff always falls into one of the two extremes of I totally love it, or I'm not a fan at all for me :P Can't hit a grand slam every time.

For the record, I've not read Ed's unpublished short story about the battle, and perhaps if I had the choice you made there might not have seemed so wrong. On the other hand, maybe I would have had the same reaction, just directed at the story :P. In the end I'm still not a fan of the concept - there are already enough examples of the "Fistandantilus" effect in D&D and I see no reason to have another here.

I am kind of curious if you referred to the Bloodstone for this - as you kind of have 9 here, albeit ones that activate accidentally rather than through evil intent.

PS - While I don't necessarily like the weaving everything together, I do always appreciate that you, unlike almost every other frequent writer beside Ed, have taken the time to do the research and have specific references in mind for everything. I can't state how much I prefer this to the haphazard wand wave to change things.

Edited by - The Masked Mage on 11 Aug 2022 03:03:16
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

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Posted - 11 Aug 2022 :  01:20:42  Show Profile Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

Shadows of Doom, page 308, reveals that the stasis clone spell dates back to ancient Netheril. One way (not the only way) to interpret the passage is that in addition to the spell, Manshoon himself dates back to Netheril.



I might need to go re-read those books - its been at least 20 years so clearing the cobwebs might be a good idea.
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