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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2067 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Apr 2022 : 00:08:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
I'm going to assume that at some point, Spelljammer related material will be allowed up on DMsGuild, so I am getting a little jumpstart and restarting my attempt at a homebrewed Anadia.
Still has quite a bit of work to go, but with the August SJ release, I figure there's plenty of time!
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1J3ODmn59Nf21AR_ABwLCdavsPxszWX2h/view?usp=sharing
I did a quick skim and had an an idea that's the complete opposite of what you've written. (So feel free to ignore it.)
If you look at what what's been written about halflings, there are two major migration patterns:
Former slaves of Calishite genies who migrated up the Sword Coast from Calimshan to the Purple Hills to Lake Weng to the Shining Vale. These halflings have a fair number of d'hin'ni among their bloodlines.
Halflings from Luiren who have gradually spread north and west.
What's been lacking is an origin story for halflings, since they are clearly not a Creator Race.
What if the home planet of Realmspace halflings is Anadia?
This would suggest two major migrations OFF the planet.
1) Perhaps at some point in the distant past (10,000 years ago?), Anadia was invaded by efreeti from the Elemental Plane of Fire and djinn from the Elemental Plane of Air in yet another battlefield of their endless war. A great war ensued that resulted in the scorching of much of the planet. The few halflings that escaped fled to the relatively temperate polar regions. Many other halflings were "rescued" (kidnapped) by the djinn and taken as slaves to the Elemental Plane of Air. After many generations on the Elemental Plane of Air, these halflings were taken to Toril in the area of what became Calimshan. They eventually escaped slavery and fled up the Sword Coast.
2) Perhaps at some other point in the distant past (circa -6000 DR), Anadia was invaded by spelljamming neogi. The neogi unleashed a plague of umber hulks on the planet, rounding up much of the surviving populace of halflings. Some of the neogi ships left, heading to Toril as their next port of call. The rest were destroyed in a halfling slave uprising. It is thought that all of the neogi died, but some might survive in the depths of the Anadian Underdark. Their umber hulk servitors now wander the wastelands of the Belt. The halflings taken as slaves also revolted against the neogi. Several ships of halflings slaves were successful in killing their enslavers and crashlanding the neogi ships on the southern shore of the Luirenstand.
Just some thoughts.
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2022 : 13:09:37
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Well, with halflings, they have several possible origins. One origin suggests they are an altered the member of the a species of Fey, specifically brownie or pixie (in myths by Yondalla, but possible other reasons), by being given traits of other species (other fey, elves, dwarves, gnomes humans and even sometimes orcs), or created by mixing traits of those species.
The myth of the Littleman (and other sources) also suggests Yondalla possibly found the Halflings, and they became worshippers of her, rather than her having a direct hand in their creation or altering.
The Littleman first came from differs between Halfig populations. alflings from Lurien tell he was from there, but those from Moonshae Isles claim he was from there, as do the Halflings from Sword Coast from there.
(ie, from from The Complete Book of Gnomes & Halflings and Races of the Wild,and Demihuman Deities ).
This curiously does seem to similar (if inversion of) the origin of Athasian Halflings, who are the ancestors of all other humanoid mamalian species. Possibly suporting a connection, just that Athasian Halflings evolving on Athas world into humans, Demihumans and Humanoids, it got distorted they were given traits or made a hybrid. Suggesting to me the possibility Halflings on multiple worlds, including Toril, came ultimatelly from Athas.
Though also giving a connection to Fey, suggesting they are possibly also descended from altered Fey. This connects to idea Leprachauns are related to both Halfings and Pixies in multiple sources (the original 1977 Monster Manual, Monstrous Compendium Volume Two, Monstrous Manual.
4e Stated that on Nerath, Halflings were created by Melora and Sehanine Moonbow, though in early 4e production it was Obad-Hai who took Melora's place and it was also stated Silvanus is Melora's "counterpart" on Toril.
Maybe Yondalla is instead a daughter of Sehanine and Obad-Hai, Silvanus or even Melora - seeing gods can change sex, particulary the elven ones and even create offspring in unorthodox for mortals way as seen in the myth of Shar and Selune. Or is a halfling worshipper of Sehanine and either of the 3 nature gods, elevated by them.
Though on the contrary, Ed himself does agree (and possibly thought of it first himself) Yondalla and Chauntea might be aspects of each other, and it does come of Yondalla/Chauntea is far more influential in the cosmic scheme of things. |
Edited by - Baltas on 30 Apr 2022 14:19:34 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2022 : 15:34:37
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Well, it is possible that Halfling could be taken by Calim from another place than Zakhara - like Anadia or even Athas (which is still connected to the Inner Planes).
But if they are from Zakhara - did they develop there? Or came from elsewere? Would they be an altered species of fey - possibly naturally or through modification by others (maybe even changed by the their enslavement by djinni - it can both intentonal, or just due to time in Inner Planes)? As the Halflings connection to Fey, is a recurring element, along with them having traits similar to other races. |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2022 : 15:44:48
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quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
I'm going to assume that at some point, Spelljammer related material will be allowed up on DMsGuild, so I am getting a little jumpstart and restarting my attempt at a homebrewed Anadia.
Still has quite a bit of work to go, but with the August SJ release, I figure there's plenty of time!
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1J3ODmn59Nf21AR_ABwLCdavsPxszWX2h/view?usp=sharing
I did a quick skim and had an an idea that's the complete opposite of what you've written. (So feel free to ignore it.)
If you look at what what's been written about halflings, there are two major migration patterns:
Former slaves of Calishite genies who migrated up the Sword Coast from Calimshan to the Purple Hills to Lake Weng to the Shining Vale. These halflings have a fair number of d'hin'ni among their bloodlines.
Halflings from Luiren who have gradually spread north and west.
What's been lacking is an origin story for halflings, since they are clearly not a Creator Race.
What if the home planet of Realmspace halflings is Anadia?
This would suggest two major migrations OFF the planet.
1) Perhaps at some point in the distant past (10,000 years ago?), Anadia was invaded by efreeti from the Elemental Plane of Fire and djinn from the Elemental Plane of Air in yet another battlefield of their endless war. A great war ensued that resulted in the scorching of much of the planet. The few halflings that escaped fled to the relatively temperate polar regions. Many other halflings were "rescued" (kidnapped) by the djinn and taken as slaves to the Elemental Plane of Air. After many generations on the Elemental Plane of Air, these halflings were taken to Toril in the area of what became Calimshan. They eventually escaped slavery and fled up the Sword Coast.
2) Perhaps at some other point in the distant past (circa -6000 DR), Anadia was invaded by spelljamming neogi. The neogi unleashed a plague of umber hulks on the planet, rounding up much of the surviving populace of halflings. Some of the neogi ships left, heading to Toril as their next port of call. The rest were destroyed in a halfling slave uprising. It is thought that all of the neogi died, but some might survive in the depths of the Anadian Underdark. Their umber hulk servitors now wander the wastelands of the Belt. The halflings taken as slaves also revolted against the neogi. Several ships of halflings slaves were successful in killing their enslavers and crashlanding the neogi ships on the southern shore of the Luirenstand.
Just some thoughts.
When I first read this response, I had some immediate trepidation mostly due to the fact that the origin of halfings is quite a grand concept to take on with a small, niche setting like Anadia, but then it really got me thinking that this could work with the lore already in the WIP and I fell in love with it.
Though I don't like the overall name "The Hin Saga" (best I could do in a pinch), let me know if you think this is a feasible adaptation of your thoughts that comixes well with the history already written.
quote:
The Hin Saga
In many halfling legends, there is a theme known as loran henos that alludes to, "what goes around comes around," though the translation is hardly exact. It is a grand belief that some multiversal truths are circular in nature and that in many ways, history repeats itself.
There is a legend so old that it has been bastardized into dozens of versions, but each exemplifies this concept. It is also thought to be a story of the origin of halflings on Toril though few if any from that world believe it to be true or even know of it.
Some of the most eccentric Northern Polarate sages swear that it is indeed factual. They claim that the anadjiin, of all creatures, have the true records somewhere in their mythical lost library. In all its versions, this story is often simply called the Hin Saga.
In the Hin Saga, the halflings did not just arrive on Anadia, but rather were returned to it by the arcane. The hin were indeed the Primal Race long before the anadjiin even existed, and perhaps they even had something to do with the creation of their species.
In this legend, it was the mighty efreet of the eternal City of Brass who set Anadia off its solar orbit, slowly changing the blue-green and utopian world into the blasted and burnt wasteland of today. Had they not been thwarted by their djinn adversaries, Anadia itself might have eventually crashed into the sun.
In their accurate, but less than selfless salvation of the world, the djinn sought compensation as genies often do. The took many tens of thousands of hin with them to the Elemental Plane of Air as indentured servants (what the hin would certainly today call abject slavery) until they were eventually released on Toril in the area that would become Calimshan.
This is what the Northern Polarate sages think of their true origins, thus fortifying their belief in loren henos and that they are the only hin to have truly returned home.
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Follow the Maztica (Aztec/Maya) and Anchorome (Indigenous North America) Campaigns on DMsGuild!
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Edited by - Seethyr on 30 Apr 2022 15:45:14 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2022 : 16:13:32
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quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
1) Perhaps at some point in the distant past (10,000 years ago?), Anadia was invaded by efreeti from the Elemental Plane of Fire and djinn from the Elemental Plane of Air in yet another battlefield of their endless war. A great war ensued that resulted in the scorching of much of the planet. The few halflings that escaped fled to the relatively temperate polar regions. Many other halflings were "rescued" (kidnapped) by the djinn and taken as slaves to the Elemental Plane of Air. After many generations on the Elemental Plane of Air, these halflings were taken to Toril in the area of what became Calimshan. They eventually escaped slavery and fled up the Sword Coast.
This one I quite like.
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
2) Perhaps at some other point in the distant past (circa -6000 DR), Anadia was invaded by spelljamming neogi. The neogi unleashed a plague of umber hulks on the planet, rounding up much of the surviving populace of halflings. Some of the neogi ships left, heading to Toril as their next port of call. The rest were destroyed in a halfling slave uprising. It is thought that all of the neogi died, but some might survive in the depths of the Anadian Underdark. Their umber hulk servitors now wander the wastelands of the Belt. The halflings taken as slaves also revolted against the neogi. Several ships of halflings slaves were successful in killing their enslavers and crashlanding the neogi ships on the southern shore of the Luirenstand.
This one I'm not so sure about. Realmspace does mention some paranoia about spelljammers, for the north pole halflings, but it's from a plague a couple centuries back. One would think that even after thousands of years, slavers from the sky and a revolt against them would still be remembered, and would be the source of such paranoia.
Also, the idea of several ships' worth of halflings revolting and crashlanding in Luiren doesn't work for me. There would have to be some serious coordination involved, because this would require the halflings to revolt at roughly the same time, seize control of the ships, and then bring them all down at the same spot. Without that coordination, any revolting ship would be subject to being attacked or retaken by ships still in neogi hands, and any ships that succeeded would have likely been widely dispersed on their landing. One or two ships could have landed in the same area, but several is unlikely.
Me, I'm more inclined to think the halflings developed in another sphere entirely, and migrated to Realmspace via portals. Maybe some went to Anadia, where they were later caught up in that efreet/djinn war. When they were freed, some of them went south and discovered the Luiren area. Later, one of those halfling -- perhaps an early ancestor of the Minstrelwish family -- went on a planar tour, found a large group of halflings living elsewhere, and brought them back to Luiren. This other group could have been descended from the Anadian halflings as well, and had been taken to some other world/plane and then stranded there.
(Also, I wonder if the north pole Anadians and the south pole Anadians are unrelated to each other. Maybe the traveling halflings only settled one pole, and the other pole was settled later, either by enslaved former Anadians returning home, or by a second migration occurring much, much later. It seems odd, given the inhospitable nature of the area between the poles, to think anyone would leave one pole and head for the other)
I lean this way because of what Ed has said about the Minstrelwish family, on the Twitter. A couple bits:
"The Minstrelwish family is EVERYWHERE (Mystara as well as the Realms and Earth), and has been one of the most creative (art, music, innovations in how things are done, fiction, even windchimes) hin clans for thousands of years."
He also said they "collect lore on gates (portals), as they’re intensely interested in planar travel that can be used as part of trade (importing cheap goods in one place that are rare and expensive in another)."
This kinda makes me wonder if there is some connection between Luiren and the Five Shires... Not the line about using The Five Shires for Luiren, of which Ed said 'Sure. Superimpose the Luiren cities and government structure, shift places "just a little" to make room for them, and, yes, it works admirably for that. Almost as if someone designed it that way. ;}' Instead, I wonder if there are Minstrelwish hin in both places and they're in contact with each other. |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2067 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2022 : 16:13:43
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Looks great!
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
When I first read this response, I had some immediate trepidation mostly due to the fact that the origin of halfings is quite a grand concept to take on with a small, niche setting like Anadia, but then it really got me thinking that this could work with the lore already in the WIP and I fell in love with it.
Though I don't like the overall name "The Hin Saga" (best I could do in a pinch), let me know if you think this is a feasible adaptation of your thoughts that comixes well with the history already written.
quote:
The Hin Saga
In many halfling legends, there is a theme known as loran henos that alludes to, "what goes around comes around," though the translation is hardly exact. It is a grand belief that some multiversal truths are circular in nature and that in many ways, history repeats itself.
There is a legend so old that it has been bastardized into dozens of versions, but each exemplifies this concept. It is also thought to be a story of the origin of halflings on Toril though few if any from that world believe it to be true or even know of it.
Some of the most eccentric Northern Polarate sages swear that it is indeed factual. They claim that the anadjiin, of all creatures, have the true records somewhere in their mythical lost library. In all its versions, this story is often simply called the Hin Saga.
In the Hin Saga, the halflings did not just arrive on Anadia, but rather were returned to it by the arcane. The hin were indeed the Primal Race long before the anadjiin even existed, and perhaps they even had something to do with the creation of their species.
In this legend, it was the mighty efreet of the eternal City of Brass who set Anadia off its solar orbit, slowly changing the blue-green and utopian world into the blasted and burnt wasteland of today. Had they not been thwarted by their djinn adversaries, Anadia itself might have eventually crashed into the sun.
In their accurate, but less than selfless salvation of the world, the djinn sought compensation as genies often do. The took many tens of thousands of hin with them to the Elemental Plane of Air as indentured servants (what the hin would certainly today call abject slavery) until they were eventually released on Toril in the area that would become Calimshan.
This is what the Northern Polarate sages think of their true origins, thus fortifying their belief in loren henos and that they are the only hin to have truly returned home.
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2022 : 18:20:06
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Haven't read the responses yet, and still going through your PDF Seethyr. Making notes as I read.
Before the anadjiin even walked the world, Anadia did not have its current position as the first before the sun. Rather, the world once orbited much further from that fiery orb and may have even been the satellite of another heavenly body.
I like this idea of it being a satellite from another heavenly body. Specifically, if Coliar had been a solid planet at one point with dragons, bird folk, and saurial/lizard races. Its tearing apart into thousands of earth and water "motes" may have allowed Anadia to take this orbit. I can see the radiant apocalypse being as they grew closer and closer to the sun..... which may have even been as the sun opened more and more portals to the elemental plane of fire.
On your idea of the primal font and the original dwellers in the world, I note the inclusion of Phoenix appearing at one point. I know that for Lopango you were interested in including a number of Phoelarch (from 3.5e MM3, a race with ties to Phoenix). With the planet being so close to the sun AND bird folk being common on Coliar, what if this race came to realmspace via the sun LONG ago when the first portals started to appear on the sun. What if they then travelled and settled on the moon Anadia. What if they came to Lopango via portal whenever Coliar was destroyed? Just throwing out some ideas. This might even have ties to the original Aearee race, and they may have created the aarakocra that came to exist on Coliar (possibly even going to war against the dragons of that world, until the dragons won, and the phoelarches and their aarakocra followers were forced to bend the knee). Just an idea that popped in my head as I was reading. There's probably a better spin that can be added, so I throw it out for consumption and regurgitation.
On the concept of the Primal Font and the Phoelarches.... and possibly dragons... what if the corruption of the primal font had to do with dragonkind attempting to magically breed with the phoelarches? In essence, they learn somehow how to create new souls that "overflow" the primal font and start creating their own servants
This one may not fit at all.... but what if the anadjiin are some kind of left behind servants of spellweavers?
Finally... and this one may totally totally not be something you like, but I'd probably do it. The plainsjan as written... they're interesting, but only kinda.... there's no STORY to them to explain them and they kind of seem weird to the place. One of the things that I've long wanted to do with the moon of Toril was to replace the elves with the "ellefolk"/"shadow elves"/"Arak" fey race, but having them come to realmspace and finding themselves suddenly breeding "true" as it were (i.e. parents have children like themselves). In this scenario, they might form a society that leans somewhat good/somewhat neutral and cast out those who are evil. That would have them casting out the Teg (a small shapechanging foxperson that loves to hunt ANYTHING including intelligent beings) and the Powrie (a tiny insect like faerie folk with a penchant for murder), who might come to this world. These beings are hurt by bright light mind you, and so they may continually be on the move trying to stay on the dark side of the world, all while hunting anything that moves. They may use the underworld as a place they flee to/through, coming out to hunt when it is dark.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2022 : 18:50:47
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quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
I'm going to assume that at some point, Spelljammer related material will be allowed up on DMsGuild, so I am getting a little jumpstart and restarting my attempt at a homebrewed Anadia.
Still has quite a bit of work to go, but with the August SJ release, I figure there's plenty of time!
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1J3ODmn59Nf21AR_ABwLCdavsPxszWX2h/view?usp=sharing
I did a quick skim and had an an idea that's the complete opposite of what you've written. (So feel free to ignore it.)
If you look at what what's been written about halflings, there are two major migration patterns:
Former slaves of Calishite genies who migrated up the Sword Coast from Calimshan to the Purple Hills to Lake Weng to the Shining Vale. These halflings have a fair number of d'hin'ni among their bloodlines.
Halflings from Luiren who have gradually spread north and west.
What's been lacking is an origin story for halflings, since they are clearly not a Creator Race.
What if the home planet of Realmspace halflings is Anadia?
This would suggest two major migrations OFF the planet.
1) Perhaps at some point in the distant past (10,000 years ago?), Anadia was invaded by efreeti from the Elemental Plane of Fire and djinn from the Elemental Plane of Air in yet another battlefield of their endless war. A great war ensued that resulted in the scorching of much of the planet. The few halflings that escaped fled to the relatively temperate polar regions. Many other halflings were "rescued" (kidnapped) by the djinn and taken as slaves to the Elemental Plane of Air. After many generations on the Elemental Plane of Air, these halflings were taken to Toril in the area of what became Calimshan. They eventually escaped slavery and fled up the Sword Coast.
2) Perhaps at some other point in the distant past (circa -6000 DR), Anadia was invaded by spelljamming neogi. The neogi unleashed a plague of umber hulks on the planet, rounding up much of the surviving populace of halflings. Some of the neogi ships left, heading to Toril as their next port of call. The rest were destroyed in a halfling slave uprising. It is thought that all of the neogi died, but some might survive in the depths of the Anadian Underdark. Their umber hulk servitors now wander the wastelands of the Belt. The halflings taken as slaves also revolted against the neogi. Several ships of halflings slaves were successful in killing their enslavers and crashlanding the neogi ships on the southern shore of the Luirenstand.
Just some thoughts.
Or perhaps another origin story that links to your own works in Anchorome/Maztica/Lopango. The halflings came to this world via the portal in Lopango along with the phoelarches. They travelled north as part of the "Aearee" servants. The "Aearee" kept their halfling servants and encountered a race of insectile/lizard creatures (spellweavers). The Aearee/phoelarches began experimentation on the spellweaver population and created a new population of creatures which becomes the anadjiin, whom they teach an ethos of maintaining balance.
Maybe even there is some big war with the Aearee and the spellweavers long ago, and the Aearee bring in djinn as warriors to serve against the spellweavers. Meanwhile, down in Lopango "Land of Fire", Efreeti are summoned by a batrachi conjurer. The Efreeti and Djinn find each other and something goes wrong, and it ends up creating the desert that is known now as the Sands of Itzcala. Maybe involve the Sollux of Lopango in this conflict as well, having them hunt down the efreeti.
The djinn take the "short ones" as servants, and bring them to Calimshan to escape the deathly desert they created. They are followed by the efreeti later. Some of the halflings are not rounded up and escape enslavement by the Efreeti.
Tear this concept apart mind you... there's probably pieces in it that you might like. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 30 Apr 2022 19:00:24 |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2022 : 23:31:20
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Haven't read the responses yet, and still going through your PDF Seethyr. Making notes as I read.
Before the anadjiin even walked the world, Anadia did not have its current position as the first before the sun. Rather, the world once orbited much further from that fiery orb and may have even been the satellite of another heavenly body.
I like this idea of it being a satellite from another heavenly body. Specifically, if Coliar had been a solid planet at one point with dragons, bird folk, and saurial/lizard races. Its tearing apart into thousands of earth and water "motes" may have allowed Anadia to take this orbit. I can see the radiant apocalypse being as they grew closer and closer to the sun..... which may have even been as the sun opened more and more portals to the elemental plane of fire.
On your idea of the primal font and the original dwellers in the world, I note the inclusion of Phoenix appearing at one point. I know that for Lopango you were interested in including a number of Phoelarch (from 3.5e MM3, a race with ties to Phoenix). With the planet being so close to the sun AND bird folk being common on Coliar, what if this race came to realmspace via the sun LONG ago when the first portals started to appear on the sun. What if they then travelled and settled on the moon Anadia. What if they came to Lopango via portal whenever Coliar was destroyed? Just throwing out some ideas. This might even have ties to the original Aearee race, and they may have created the aarakocra that came to exist on Coliar (possibly even going to war against the dragons of that world, until the dragons won, and the phoelarches and their aarakocra followers were forced to bend the knee). Just an idea that popped in my head as I was reading. There's probably a better spin that can be added, so I throw it out for consumption and regurgitation.
I honestly think that's great. I also think this could work well with Eric's idea that the Efreet had a part to play in it as well. I added a little bit to the prehistory to make that happen, and might end up doing an expansion for the book if it turns out to be popular, where Coliar will feature. Love it!
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
On the concept of the Primal Font and the Phoelarches.... and possibly dragons... what if the corruption of the primal font had to do with dragonkind attempting to magically breed with the phoelarches? In essence, they learn somehow how to create new souls that "overflow" the primal font and start creating their own servants
My not-so-secret story behind the Primal Font is that it is the same Primal Font brought up in the Magic of Incarnum supplement. Again, if this book gets some interest when I release it I will likely do a follow up adventure/supplement where I try to update some of the Incarnum stuff after the PCs help the phoelarchs fix the Primal Font, bringing Incarnum magic back to Anadia. This will be where your Coliar idea definitely gets some play.
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
This one may not fit at all.... but what if the anadjiin are some kind of left behind servants of spellweavers?
Since I started using Eric's suggestions, I had some other thoughts about their origins. I am strongly considering having halfling predecessors as the original creators of the anadjiin - made to combat the efreet and eventually the djinn who took them as slaves.
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Finally... and this one may totally totally not be something you like, but I'd probably do it. The plainsjan as written... they're interesting, but only kinda.... there's no STORY to them to explain them and they kind of seem weird to the place. One of the things that I've long wanted to do with the moon of Toril was to replace the elves with the "ellefolk"/"shadow elves"/"Arak" fey race, but having them come to realmspace and finding themselves suddenly breeding "true" as it were (i.e. parents have children like themselves). In this scenario, they might form a society that leans somewhat good/somewhat neutral and cast out those who are evil. That would have them casting out the Teg (a small shapechanging foxperson that loves to hunt ANYTHING including intelligent beings) and the Powrie (a tiny insect like faerie folk with a penchant for murder), who might come to this world. These beings are hurt by bright light mind you, and so they may continually be on the move trying to stay on the dark side of the world, all while hunting anything that moves. They may use the underworld as a place they flee to/through, coming out to hunt when it is dark.
I really appreciate this because I have had exactly zero thoughts on the plainsjan origins. At best, I was mulling over a connection to the Thunder Twin blessing given to the dwarves not terribly long ago on Toril - perhaps Moradin was "inspired" by the plainsjan? Could they be degenerate or altered dwarves?
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2022 : 23:38:00
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Here's the latest WIP as of 5-2-22
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1juCd3YeR5SLpM_HDVlT_UXzb5ogHvkg0/view?usp=sharing
It's up to 17 pages and I have kind of figured out what else I want to put in it. First off, I am going to raid Sandstorm (from 3e) to death for new items and spells along with throwing in a few of my own. Then I am going to make anadjiin, phoelarchs and Anadian halflings distinct playable races. Anadjiin will double as monsters later.
Speaking of which, there's been about a dozen monsters mentioned in the book already that are updates like the blindheim or new like the crimson claw crabs. Not sure if I want to include a small adventure or not.
EDIT: As a side note, I have to say we were some goofy folks in the early nineties! Some of the names we used for halflings were...absurd...to say the least and trying to work the counties canonical names into this book was making me cringe the whole time. I am hoping on explaining their awkwardness away using a lore-born reason.
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Edited by - Seethyr on 02 May 2022 23:42:55 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2022 : 01:10:19
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On your question of plainsjan origins above and degenerate or altered dwarves, if you do want to keep them (which I can respect for the canonicity of it).... I'd probably veer from dwarves. The idea I had been talking about with the powrie and teg actually ties back to some other screwed up fey. The redcaps. If redcaps shaved themselves because of the heat of this world.... maybe they might look like plainsjan?
On powderpuff... the tendency is always to compare to gunpowder and just leave it at that. However, if you look at real world, there are different explosives that people use for different purposes. For instance, maybe powderpuff ISN'T the greatest thing to use for pistols.... but maybe its a much more stable solution for making dynamite, enabling the halflings to do mining. Maybe it makes for a much better use in firing cannons. Maybe it can make shaped charges better or mixed with a material like C4.
On the topic of mining, we have the idea of the underworld here.... and I know I discussed some ideas with the teg and powrie above.... so what if some of the races that inhabit this place are ones that retreated to the underworld as the planet grew closer and closer to the sun. Maybe they've adapted to a lightless environment. Grimlocks, darklings, etc... all could work here.
Then of course, we have to ask the question... what dragons are here? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 03 May 2022 01:42:03 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2022 : 01:10:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
EDIT: As a side note, I have to say we were some goofy folks in the early nineties! Some of the names we used for halflings were...absurd...to say the least and trying to work the counties canonical names into this book was making me cringe the whole time. I am hoping on explaining their awkwardness away using a lore-born reason.
Realmspace also has Clive the Fearsome, a pretty blatant ripoff of the Dread Pirate Roberts. It does not, however, descend into the utter ridiculousness of Little Bignome, who is in my opinion the most utterly ridiculous character to come out of D&D. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2022 : 13:04:51
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Gonna throw out a rather unusual idea here and it's only half baked, but I'm kind of surprised it never occurred to me before. On the idea of Coliar being a destroyed world... what if it were " one of the first" Abeir-Torils? By that I mean, we have this story that "Ancient sarrukh accounts remark on the “changing of the stars,” but until the Spellplague and the return of Abeir, very few paid these legends any heed.
So, what if it wasn't so much that the world was "twinned" as "the twinned world already existed, and the continent was transported magically when the world blew up"
Along these similar lines, we have the story of Asgorath from the original draconomicon release that starts with "The World was still flat, here before the beginning of Time, before Asgorath the World-Shaper folded the cloth of existence into its final form. The World was flat, and above it hung the Crystal Sun that Zotha had wrought before Asgorath cast him down. Asgorath soared above the World and looked down upon it, and she saw that it was good." I had been wondering if the world of H'Catha, which is flat with a central spire that points towards the sun, and has this strange power to imbue anyone that reaches the top of the spire with amazing intelligence if their brain was really large in size.... like a beholder... or a dragon too, no? I had been wondering if this world wasn't some kind of construct aimed at the sun intent on doing SOMETHING to it (maybe it was meant to turn it off, maybe it was meant to open portals to the plane of fire, who knows". So, what if the original "dragon world" that was flat WAS H'Catha. What if the "breath of Asgorath" that was fired at the world was something where H'Catha blasted across wildspace, hitting Coliar? When this occurred, the gods transport whole continents to a previous "water world". The sarrukh note a changing of the stars, but where they actually live looks the same, so they're confused and don't realize they've moved planets.
If this were the case, could it have been because the dragons of H'Catha and the dragons of Coliar were at odds with one another? For instance, maybe the dragons of Coliar were ascended to the divine by acquiring mortal followers, and the other dragons sought to stop it.
Following this, these entities may have gotten locked away, and then later released again, by the batrachi... and thus we have multiple references to Asgorath the world shaper that seem confusing to us.... one in which it releases its breaths upon a crystal sun... and another in which it hurls an ice moon at the world. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2022 : 14:07:26
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| I’m sure that in one way or another H’Calos could be worked into that story. |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2022 : 14:14:41
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Trying to write up Anadjiin as a playable race using the newer format in Monsters of the Multiverse. Apologies for the coding tags, I’m copy/pasting this from the GmBinder code.
## Anadjiin
Anadjiin are the fierce beast of the desert. Consummate predators uniquely suited to life in the deepest deserts and most challenging badlands.
Anadjiin have a roughly human form, but have a number of insectile qualities as well, though some say the pronounced head crest gives them more of a stegosaur-like appearance. The eyes of an anadjiin are powerful instruments which give an anadjiin an uncanny ability to see all that surrounds them.
### Anadjiin Traits
As an anadjiin you have the following traits.
<br>***Creature Type.*** You are a humanoid.
<br>***Size.*** Your size is Medium.
<br>***Speed.*** Your walking speed is 30 feet.
<br>***Claws.*** You have sharp claws that you can use to make unarmed attacks. When you hit with them, your strike deals 1d6 + your Strength modifier slashing damage, instead of the bludgeoning damage normal for unarmed strikes.
<br>***Desert Survivor.*** You are proficient in Survival and gain advantage on Survival checks when in a desert or badlands environment. Finally, you are better able to deal with heat than most beings, allowing you to require only a single gallon of water each day in hot conditions.
<br>***Compound Eyes.*** You are proficient in Perception.
<br>***Bleeding Wounds.*** As a bonus action, you can make a special attack with your claws. You do your normal claw damage but hit points lost to this attack can only be regained through a short or long rest rather than by regeneration, magic or any other means. At the start of each of the bleeding creature’s turns, it takes 1d4 necrotic damage for each time you’ve wounded it using this trait and it can then make a DC 15 Constitution saving throw, ending the effect on a success. Alternatively, the wounded creature, or a creature within 5 feet of it, can use an action to make a DC 15 Wisdom (Medicine) check, ending the effect of such wounds on a success. You can use this trait a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus, and you regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest.
<br>***Natural Armor.*** You have chitin plated skin. When you aren’t wearing armor, your base AC is 13 + your Dexterity modifier. You can use your natural armor to determine your AC if the armor you wear would leave you with a lower AC. A shield’s benefits apply as normal while you use your natural armor.
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Edited by - Seethyr on 04 May 2022 14:16:45 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2022 : 14:28:39
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Can't let this go... so laying out something further.
Some of Anadia's original inhabitants are possibly beings of darkness and cold. Their moon orbits another heavenly body. H'Catha fires at a heavenly body nearby, a giant heavenly body of "rock". This LIGHTS that heavenly body... the central sun of realmspace is formed. As it heats up, the pressure generated turns this heavenly body into fiery crystal. It begins to gain in mass by pulling in other bits from across the crystal sphere in via gravity. Some of these pieces never make it to it, but rather get heated up and then get "shot" out of the orbit as fiery pieces (eggs?) shooting towards the limits of wildspace. One such piece hits the planet of Coliar, shattering it. Some of these flaming bits of the sun hit the outer shell of the crystal sphere, where they form "stars" in the form of portals to the plane of radiance.
As this source of fire and radiance slowly lights, the inhabitants of Anadia are forced into its underdark. They travel miles into the earth, where they begin to create a new society on its hollow interior. As they leave behind their old society, new inhabitants come to the world via the sun and begin adapting the existing structures. The two groups hate one another. Conflict ensues between the cold, shadowy beings and the beings of light and fire. The primal font is possibly created as a means to "reboot" themselves as the beings of cold and shadow assault the beings of light and fire.
H'Catha itself has a "moon" named Turnbetl near it that exudes some kind of extremely flammable "gas" and noone approaches the place for fear of burning up. Perhaps this is the source of power for the "laser" that is the planet H'Catha. Perhaps even this power source is the unimaginable.... an actual path by which phologiston is leaking into realmspace.... and periodically the "laser" ends up being fired again. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2022 : 19:57:40
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And here is the Phoelarch
I have a question. Do you think the player should be in control of the phoera?
Phoelarch
Phoelarch are humanoid beings closely associated with the powerful elemental creatures known as phoenixes. Whether created or somehow descended from such creatures, they have powers and traits that closely associate with the fiery birds. They also share their souls with a separate, bird-like creature known as a phoera which they reincarnate into if they should die a violent death.
Phoelarchs have the general appearance of humans but are tall and slender. They radiate heat and have flame colored crests of hair and feathers.
<br>***Creature Type.*** You are a humanoid.
<br>***Size.*** Your size is Medium.
<br>***Speed.*** Your walking speed is 30 feet.
<br>***Born of Flames.*** You are immune to fire damage.
<br>***Flames of the Phoenix.*** Your skin is always warm to the touch. Starting at 3rd level, you can cast *flame shield* (warm version only) without requiring a material component and for a duration of 1 minute. Once you cast the spell with this trait, you cannot do so again until you have taken a long rest. You can also cast the spell at normal duration using any spell slots you have of 4th level or higher.
<br>***Fiery Rebirth.*** When you are reduced to 0 hit points, your body explodes causing 2d6 fire damage to all creatures within 10 feet (Dexterity save DC 13 for half). Furthermore, a shiny black egg is left in the wake of the explosion which is approximately six inches in diameter and weighs 1 lb. If any type of magic is cast on the egg that would otherwise bring you back to life, the egg grows and you emerge from it in whatever condition is dictated by the individual spell. However, if 24 hours pass, the egg hatches into a phoera which is under the control of the DM but otherwise allied to your desires. At this point, it requires a *resurrection* or stronger magic to return your form to that of the phoelarch. |
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Edited by - Seethyr on 04 May 2022 20:03:50 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2022 : 20:03:40
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Gonna throw out a rather unusual idea here and it's only half baked, but I'm kind of surprised it never occurred to me before. On the idea of Coliar being a destroyed world... what if it were " one of the first" Abeir-Torils? By that I mean, we have this story that "Ancient sarrukh accounts remark on the “changing of the stars,” but until the Spellplague and the return of Abeir, very few paid these legends any heed.
So, what if it wasn't so much that the world was "twinned" as "the twinned world already existed, and the continent was transported magically when the world blew up"
You don't even have to bother with twinning the world or any of that problematic retcon stuff -- maybe Toril's orbit was changed. There's no other detail given on how the stars changed, so it could have been that Toril was moved closer to or farther from the sun. It could also have been something like being knocked to a different position on the same orbital track -- which would mean that the stars wouldn't be in the expected positions for the given season. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2022 : 20:05:20
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Perhaps even this power source is the unimaginable.... an actual path by which phologiston is leaking into realmspace.... and periodically the "laser" ends up being fired again.
It can't be the phlogiston. It was explicitly stated in Spelljammer material that the phlogiston could not exist inside a crystal sphere. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2022 : 00:46:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Perhaps even this power source is the unimaginable.... an actual path by which phologiston is leaking into realmspace.... and periodically the "laser" ends up being fired again.
It can't be the phlogiston. It was explicitly stated in Spelljammer material that the phlogiston could not exist inside a crystal sphere.
That's exactly why I say the "unimaginable". I mean if we went with this particular idea.... that H'Catha is essentially a constructed world that acts like a giant artifact.... that it was used to basically "light the sun" OR "destroy worlds".... its power source should be something amazingly fantastic. If phlogiston DOES somehow get transported into a crystal sphere, might it take on some other form.... something so volatile that even the slightest exposure to air sets it aflame (like phosphorous or phosphine). Not sure how having it be phlogiston might make this more of an interesting piece, but it might make the area particularly "non-divine" or somesuch. It might even harm divine entities, making it a good weapon for primordials to use against gods. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2022 : 01:19:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
And here is the Phoelarch
I have a question. Do you think the player should be in control of the phoera?
Phoelarch
Phoelarch are humanoid beings closely associated with the powerful elemental creatures known as phoenixes. Whether created or somehow descended from such creatures, they have powers and traits that closely associate with the fiery birds. They also share their souls with a separate, bird-like creature known as a phoera which they reincarnate into if they should die a violent death.
Phoelarchs have the general appearance of humans but are tall and slender. They radiate heat and have flame colored crests of hair and feathers.
<br>***Creature Type.*** You are a humanoid.
<br>***Size.*** Your size is Medium.
<br>***Speed.*** Your walking speed is 30 feet.
<br>***Born of Flames.*** You are immune to fire damage.
<br>***Flames of the Phoenix.*** Your skin is always warm to the touch. Starting at 3rd level, you can cast *flame shield* (warm version only) without requiring a material component and for a duration of 1 minute. Once you cast the spell with this trait, you cannot do so again until you have taken a long rest. You can also cast the spell at normal duration using any spell slots you have of 4th level or higher.
<br>***Fiery Rebirth.*** When you are reduced to 0 hit points, your body explodes causing 2d6 fire damage to all creatures within 10 feet (Dexterity save DC 13 for half). Furthermore, a shiny black egg is left in the wake of the explosion which is approximately six inches in diameter and weighs 1 lb. If any type of magic is cast on the egg that would otherwise bring you back to life, the egg grows and you emerge from it in whatever condition is dictated by the individual spell. However, if 24 hours pass, the egg hatches into a phoera which is under the control of the DM but otherwise allied to your desires. At this point, it requires a *resurrection* or stronger magic to return your form to that of the phoelarch.
I vote no on having the player in charge of the Phoera.
I would also say that in order to make this race more "special" that we should look at the original phoelarch. A Phoelarch dyring required a "wish or miracle cast in combination with a resurrection". So, unlike any other player, dying for a phoelarch player should be an "oh shit" moment. So, what if it requires the use of resurrection, but it also requires something else besides an additional huge magic. Maybe the egg must be immersed in lava or a huge bonfire while the resurrection is cast? Maybe the egg must be bathed in the fire of a dragon's breath or warmed by the fires of a phoenix or brought to a temple of the Phoelarch god and placed in a brazier there? In doing this, also allow the gentle repose spell to work to allow the egg to not hatch for ten days.
On the flip side, make Phoelarch eggs valuable to necromancers... and when a phoelarch is heard to have died, they come to hunt the party carrying the egg. This part might be hard to codify into rules, but just throwing it out.
So, if we making coming back from the dead a problem.... we should also take some of the things the Phoelarch had as well that make them more survivable. Well, they healed when exposed to fire damage, but with cantrips... that would be too easy, unless you limit it. Maybe they have twice the number of hit dice of any character of the same level, and whenever exposed to fire damage of ten points or more they may restore a single hit die.
They should also be immune to disease and poison damage as the original phoelarch.
They should all know a variation of the greenflame blade cantrip (with fiery red flames) and the light cantrip. However, they should only be able to use each maybe once an hour unless they belong to a class that has the ability to use cantrips (including classes like fighters with eldritch knight and rogues with arcane trickster).
Oh, and since we have nothing on the Phoelarch deity.... they worship a deity of fire and feathers, a being known as Intiri, whom some say is an ascended Phoelarch? Or maybe they worship Lathander? Or maybe those are the same being? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 10 May 2022 01:26:34 |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2022 : 14:30:04
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I agree with you on the phoera and will stick with it.
Some of the other things you mentioned however, I understand where you are coming from and I deliberated over those very concepts but had to change a little from the source material in order to make them into a viable, playable race anticipating what is coming in 5.5e and through recent changes. It’s okay to make some changes because frankly phoelarchs have only ever been explored in a single source and the changes are minor - easily handwaived away in order to make playing them viable.
Immunities: Two damage type immunities (Fire and Poison) in 5e for a race is unprecedented and very OP unless there’s literally no other abilities given. There’s no other race I can think of that has more than one. Immunity to disease wouldn’t be the worst but in lieu of adding other more thematic abilities I chose to ignore it. Maybe as a phoelarch racial feat it would work better.
Resurrection: I wanted to make this slightly more challenging to a player as a phoelarch because it’s really thematic but requiring a wish after the transformation is just a debilitating problem. Too few have access to that level of magic. The same goes for requiring too high a level of spell once you get to 0 hp. So I tried to compromise.
I do like the cantrip idea, but had reached kind of an upper limit in the number of racial powers they have. Again, I might put this into a feat - something called “Phoenixborn” that can handle the disease issue and give the cantrip. This way players who really want to get into the phoelarch part of their phoelarch character can choose it in lieu of the +2 stat bonus.
I love the connection to Intiri/Lathander. That’ll be a great alteration to Kuntur Rapa in Lopango! |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2022 : 15:49:04
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Agreed on the wish + resurrection being too much. That's why I was throwing out the options of "bring the egg to an area of lava, bathe it in the fiery breath of a dragon, bring it to a temple to a deity of fire or the sun". Basically, turn it into a story concept for the players that's actually a little like the dragon prince series in which they need to haul this egg around in order to restore their friend, while they're being chased. Maybe include this as an option to DM's to come up with their own answer with the players and turn it into a story? Given that most gaming groups won't have access to resurrection, the most common answer will of course involve bringing the egg to somewhere where there's a priest of a fire / sun god to cast the spell (which may make them indebted to said church as well).
I like that Phoenixborn feat idea. If you DO do that, maybe give them light as a cantrip as regular, but the phoenixborn maybe give firebolt and greenflame blade as cantrips and the immunity to disease.
Odd question here... what do you think of the idea of making Phoera a possible creature that can act as a familiar or animal companion to a being that they bond to upon hatching (if said being has some ability already to cast find familiar or use an animal companion)? It might make for an interesting idea wherein a player dies and they get hatched, continue with the party, and then eventually get returned to their original form. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2022 : 14:19:48
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| Just a FYI on DMsGuild. Despite it not being a Spelljammer book, they don’t allow even land bound campaigns on any Realmspace world. Yet at least. If anyone wants the final link PM me. If SJ goes live in August I’ll be putting it up there too. |
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Edited by - Seethyr on 14 May 2022 14:20:17 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2022 : 17:31:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
Just a FYI on DMsGuild. Despite it not being a Spelljammer book, they don’t allow even land bound campaigns on any Realmspace world. Yet at least. If anyone wants the final link PM me. If SJ goes live in August I’ll be putting it up there too.
So do what some of the published 2E adventures did: start in the Realms, then go elsewhere. |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2022 : 01:44:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
Just a FYI on DMsGuild. Despite it not being a Spelljammer book, they don’t allow even land bound campaigns on any Realmspace world. Yet at least. If anyone wants the final link PM me. If SJ goes live in August I’ll be putting it up there too.
So do what some of the published 2E adventures did: start in the Realms, then go elsewhere.
I'd have to write up an adventure to go with it, but that's not the worst idea - thank you.
I'll fall back on it if they for some unknown reason don't release SJ on DmsGuild this summer. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2022 : 01:39:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
Just a FYI on DMsGuild. Despite it not being a Spelljammer book, they don’t allow even land bound campaigns on any Realmspace world. Yet at least. If anyone wants the final link PM me. If SJ goes live in August I’ll be putting it up there too.
That's not true. I know there was a product where one guy was trying to flesh out the planets called "Realmspace Revisited". That being said, it had very little original information. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Anadia Homebrew
