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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
 Posted - 13 May 2004 : 03:01:25
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Last weekend my players wandered a little to close to Myth Drannor and came across an Erinyes, during the fight the Erinyes summoned a Bearded Devil, the PCs decided to gang up on the Erinyes in the hope that if they killed her the Beared Devil would go away. Well they managed to kill her and the Bearded Devil went away.
Now for a few questions for the Candle Keep Brains trust
I was correct that the Bearded Devil does go away if the Summoner dies?
In the combat section of the Erinyes write up it says the its weapons are treated as Evil and Lwafully aligned when it comes to over coming DR. Now does this also mean that these will harm any non Lawful evil person who touches them?
If the Erinyes weapons are consider Evil and there fore unusable to my CN/CG PCs what would happan if the PCs tried to Redeem the Erinyes +1 Flaming Composite Longbow using the rules in Exalted Deeds? (Assuming they take it to the Abbey of the Sword to have it redeemed) Would it be a Redeemed +1 Flaming Composite Longbow that is treated as being Chaoticly and Good aligned for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction?
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“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2004 : 04:16:13
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-As a spell-like ability, the summoning ability to a devil (of any type) remains in effect regardless of the status of the summoning creature. Whether the erinyes was slain, possessed, or even removed to another plane, her bearded devil ally remains for the duration of the ability which summoned him (1 hour).
-The weapons of a creature are only considered of a certain type when wielded by the creature itself. If the creature is disarmed or slain, the weapon acts according to its statistics when picked up by another creature. Redemption of an Erinyes' bow is unnecessary; it's just a +1 flaming composite longbow. Redeeming the weapon is likewise impossible, and even if it were, the process would serve no purpose, as the lawful- and evil-aligned properties are derived from the devil herself, not the weapon, and do not carry over to the object. |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2004 : 13:43:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
In the combat section of the Erinyes write up it says the its weapons are treated as Evil and Lwafully aligned when it comes to over coming DR. Now does this also mean that these will harm any non Lawful evil person who touches them?
No. When it says they are evil and lawfully aligned, this only applies to DR-if something like this happened, they'd hurt good and chaotic characters, anyway.
quote:
If the Erinyes weapons are consider Evil and there fore unusable to my CN/CG PCs what would happan if the PCs tried to Redeem the Erinyes +1 Flaming Composite Longbow using the rules in Exalted Deeds? (Assuming they take it to the Abbey of the Sword to have it redeemed) Would it be a Redeemed +1 Flaming Composite Longbow that is treated as being Chaoticly and Good aligned for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction?
You don't need to redeem it that way-at least from a rules standpoint. Though, according to the BoVD, said weapon would still have the taint of evil around it. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2004 : 07:02:16
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Confound it... A question about planars and outsiders, and I had to be away helping to work on quantum cryptography software for the Australian National University's first superposition tester/robot...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2004 : 07:08:13
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Confound it... A question about planars and outsiders, and I had to be away helping to work on quantum cryptography software for the Australian National University's first superposition tester/robot...
I'm not sure what to think of this response... |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2004 : 07:21:39
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| Oh, nothing...just an interesting look into your mind from that post. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2004 : 07:25:47
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
See anything interesting...?  There's no need to answer that, it's just a rhetorical question...
Yes, I do. You're an interesting character, Sage...
*swears that as soon as he posted this response, he was expecting a tap on the shoulder from Alaundo going: Now that's enough about the Sage's noggin, now can we please return to the conversation about demons and equipment? * |
Edited by - Arivia on 14 May 2004 07:27:42 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2004 : 07:40:31
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Here's a question just involving devils (and something that has not come up in my PS campaigns oddly enough) -
In the 3.5e revision there were some changes that "came down the pipe" that affected DR. According to Andy Collins (and later proven by the various 3.5 revised rulebooks), the rule which allowed creatures with DR to hit creatures with similar immunities disappeared. As a result fiends and celestials are now able to hurt one another effectively, but fiends will be fully affected by each other's DRs.
To me, it seems this goes against what we've learnt about the Blood war and the many other fiendish squabbles being very bloody.
So what do you think here? Am I overreacting, or did they really step all over the canon with this change?
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 14 May 2004 07:42:50 |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2004 : 08:38:49
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It is indeed true, Sage, that a devil's natural and wielded weapons will not overcome the DR of a demon, and vice versa. Likewise, the weapons of a yugoloth (the Blood War mercenaries) won't affect demons or devils the way they used to. This doesn't mean that the Blood War is any less bloody; in fact, it may mean that battles are more vicious and drawn out as each combatant strives to inflict enough damage to truly wound his opponent.
Of course, you could rule that when baatezu and tanar'ri are fighting, their opposed alignment properties (chaotic and lawful) can substitute for for the otherwise-necessary "good" requirement. This then leaves the problem of yugoloths, which I think could be solved by making their weapons ignore any alignment-based DR of tanar'ri and baatezu.
Then again, there's always the new sure-striking property... |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2004 : 08:46:09
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I'd thought about the sure-striking ability, though it just seems to take some of the "fiendish-ness" out of fiend vs fiend combat.
It seems to me that of course fiends have to worry about other fiends' damage resistance. What I worry about is how exactly do celestials get to ignore it (and here I was thinking about how interesting a battle between a living flamestrike and several living holocausts would be, with the living holocausts only affected by holy damage and the living flamestrike only affected by air damage)?
But anyway, none of these rules existed in 2e, which is when the "canon" first appeared. In 2e, only critters with lots of hit dice could avoid the only-hit-by-plusses creatures, and that's what Planescape was built around. Not that it matters now I guess. The Blood War goes on.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Lina
Senior Scribe
Australia
469 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2004 : 10:54:30
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| I always thought that the summoned creature would stay summoned even after the summoner dies unless the creature was dispelled. If the creature was evil then it'd have free rein to create havoc and destroy. |
“Darkness beyond twilight, crimson beyond blood that flows! Buried in the flow of time. In thy great name. I pledge myself to darkness. All the fools who stand in our way shall be destroyed…by the power you and I possess! DRAGON SLAVE!!!”
"Thieves? Ah, such an ugly word... look upon them as the most honest sort of merchant."
-Oglar the Thieflord |
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bitter thorn
Learned Scribe
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2012 : 05:52:47
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| Does a summoned outsiders body or equipment remain on the material plane when it is slain? |
"Nobody listens to the Ranger!"
Our groups are all sticking with 3.X classic Realms. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4696 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2012 : 06:01:42
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quote:
Originally posted by bitter thorn
Does a summoned outsiders body or equipment remain on the material plane when it is slain?
The most common answer is no, sometimes it disappears with body. Sometimes equipment blows up as a final strike. Often a summoned killed on plane returns to home plane alive and equipped. There clearly are exceptions to all I offer, however this has tended to be the lore I have read. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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bitter thorn
Learned Scribe
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2012 : 07:44:49
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| That was my recollection too. Thanks! |
"Nobody listens to the Ranger!"
Our groups are all sticking with 3.X classic Realms. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2012 : 16:08:36
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Within 2E rules, a summoned creature remains after the death of the summoner unless stated otherwise in the summoning description or unless it has the ability and desire to leave.
Again, within 2E rules the weapons and equipment carried by fiends is usually forged from the stuff of their infernal or abyssal planes; to be strictly technical, a bearded devil's +1 flaming composite longbow is LE-aligned and would actually function as +2 (or higher) when on the bearded devil's native plane. Beyond RPG flavour and being noxious to paladins this would have little game effect. 3E rules allowed more complexity in determining the exotic materials and properties of such stuff, it really depends a lot on which rulebooks you use.
Insofar as fiends damaging each other ... I would personally regard devils/baatezu, daemons/yugoloth, and demons/tanar'ri (along each other "species" of fiend) as separate entities who are fully capable of tearing each other apart; they have many internal divisions which do not exist among celestials. But consider that a half-celestial, like a half-cambion, is a different "type" who is capable of damaging others of the "same" kind. Naturally, those fiends who are stronger can always damage those who are weaker, and they probably often do so with utter impunity. |
[/Ayrik] |
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A question regarding devils and equipment
