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Storyteller Hero
Learned Scribe
USA
329 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Feb 2022 : 13:21:52
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If Lolth engineered the Rage of Demons, which saw Gromph Baenre effectively exiled from Menzoberranzan, then suppose she decides to fill the position of the city's Archmage with a resurrected Pharaun.
Given that Danifae still owed Pharaun a favor by the end of the War of the Spider Queen, and that a century is not much time to a millennia old deity such as Lolth, and that it would infuriate Quenthel Baenre to no small end, this would be a good opportunity for fun.
Pharaun was already well-acquainted with Gromph Baenre's way of doing things as well as the workings of Sorcere in Menzoberranzan so he has the skills and knowledge, especially after spending time in Lolth's divine realm, with potential access to tons of magical lore collected by Lolth throughout her reign as a Demon Lord of the Abyss.
And again, Quenthel would be exasperated to no small end.
What do y'all think?
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Edited by - Storyteller Hero on 01 Feb 2022 13:22:30
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MandarinB
Acolyte
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2022 : 14:10:03
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I think its far more likely that following Gromph's departure from Menzoberranzan, Quenthel just propped up another Baenre to rule the academy. Seeing as he served as a stand-in for Gromph after his disappearance during WotSQ, I would guess Nauzhror Baenre would take his place, first as a temporary replacement and then in a more official capacity.
While Danifae, and therefore Lolth, does owe a favor to Pharaun, the two outright despised each other by the time Pharaun died- and Danifae was more than happy to leave him to die in the Demonweb Pits at the hands of her pet Draegloth. I don't see why she would bring him back now when she could've gotten his gratitude and maybe him as an ally by saving his life before. |
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Storyteller Hero
Learned Scribe
USA
329 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2022 : 18:15:13
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quote:
Originally posted by MandarinB
I think its far more likely that following Gromph's departure from Menzoberranzan, Quenthel just propped up another Baenre to rule the academy. Seeing as he served as a stand-in for Gromph after his disappearance during WotSQ, I would guess Nauzhror Baenre would take his place, first as a temporary replacement and then in a more official capacity.
While Danifae, and therefore Lolth, does owe a favor to Pharaun, the two outright despised each other by the time Pharaun died- and Danifae was more than happy to leave him to die in the Demonweb Pits at the hands of her pet Draegloth. I don't see why she would bring him back now when she could've gotten his gratitude and maybe him as an ally by saving his life before.
With Lolth, the reasonable order of logic wouldn't apply so much, as she IS a goddess of chaos known to do all sorts of things on a whim.
"Despised" is a strong word that is not necessarily accurate for Danifae and Pharaun. They were at odds, but it wasn't nearly as personal as the conflict between Quenthel and Pharaun. Dying is just a transition or release in the eyes of a cleric of Lolth. Pharaun could be considered blessed to die in the holy realm of his goddess.
Pharaun was many things, but unfaithful is not one of them. He even had a religious experience in the past that strengthened his faith in Lolth.
Danifae becoming part of Lolth would make her a person that Pharaun admires, not hates, especially for how true to form she was of a strong drow follower of the same faith.
Lolth doesn't follow mortal logic; she is immortal and owing Pharaun a favor was practically last tenday for what few years have passed, and as a faithful servant and adept in arcane magic, Pharaun could easily have become a beloved pet alongside Rild Argith.
If Pharaun has achieved a certain level of mastery to truly rival Gromph Baenre, which is potentially much easier with Lolth granting him access to her library and a lab of his own, he is a great piece to place on the board of the mortal realms once again.
Plus nostalgia to see the face of Quenthel Baenre twist in seeing Pharaun Myzzrym alive and well, and a non-Baenre becoming the Archmage, kicking House Baenre out of its complacency lest House Myzzrym potentially rise up to change the "order of things", as would fit a people who worship chaos in the form of Lolth.
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2022 : 22:11:48
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| Very cool idea and it fits well. I just dont think RA is going to ever give characters that arent his such a prominent role in Menzo. In these next two books something major is going to happen to Menzoberranzan for sure. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3741 Posts |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3806 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2022 : 23:30:10
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| Lolth's characterization in canon is "lol, whatever goes, 'cuz we don't know what chaos means". So yeah, I guess. If you want him to be rezzed, then it fits Lolth's character, if you don't want him to be rezzed, then it also fits Lolth's charatcer. It's entirely up to you even if you want to stay close to canon. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Storyteller Hero
Learned Scribe
USA
329 Posts |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3741 Posts |
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jordanz
Senior Scribe
556 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2022 : 00:59:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Storyteller Hero
quote:
Originally posted by MandarinB
I think its far more likely that following Gromph's departure from Menzoberranzan, Quenthel just propped up another Baenre to rule the academy. Seeing as he served as a stand-in for Gromph after his disappearance during WotSQ, I would guess Nauzhror Baenre would take his place, first as a temporary replacement and then in a more official capacity.
While Danifae, and therefore Lolth, does owe a favor to Pharaun, the two outright despised each other by the time Pharaun died- and Danifae was more than happy to leave him to die in the Demonweb Pits at the hands of her pet Draegloth. I don't see why she would bring him back now when she could've gotten his gratitude and maybe him as an ally by saving his life before.
With Lolth, the reasonable order of logic wouldn't apply so much, as she IS a goddess of chaos known to do all sorts of things on a whim.
"Despised" is a strong word that is not necessarily accurate for Danifae and Pharaun. They were at odds, but it wasn't nearly as personal as the conflict between Quenthel and Pharaun. Dying is just a transition or release in the eyes of a cleric of Lolth. Pharaun could be considered blessed to die in the holy realm of his goddess.
Pharaun was many things, but unfaithful is not one of them. He even had a religious experience in the past that strengthened his faith in Lolth.
Danifae becoming part of Lolth would make her a person that Pharaun admires, not hates, especially for how true to form she was of a strong drow follower of the same faith.
Lolth doesn't follow mortal logic; she is immortal and owing Pharaun a favor was practically last tenday for what few years have passed, and as a faithful servant and adept in arcane magic, Pharaun could easily have become a beloved pet alongside Rild Argith.
If Pharaun has achieved a certain level of mastery to truly rival Gromph Baenre, which is potentially much easier with Lolth granting him access to her library and a lab of his own, he is a great piece to place on the board of the mortal realms once again.
Plus nostalgia to see the face of Quenthel Baenre twist in seeing Pharaun Myzzrym alive and well, and a non-Baenre becoming the Archmage, kicking House Baenre out of its complacency lest House Myzzrym potentially rise up to change the "order of things", as would fit a people who worship chaos in the form of Lolth.
I definitely liked the character but if he was brought back to rival Gromph in power its kinda tough to keep the dramatic tension. I think he was bordering but not quite arch mage level (low end) when he died. But what was most likeable about him was was his wit ...giving him Gromph level skill/power sort of makes that wit....disposable. |
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sno4wy
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2022 : 07:45:50
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| Out of curiosity, if you brought back Pharaun, would you be using the version of him at the end of the WotSQ series, or at the end of the Empyrean Odyssey? |
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Storyteller Hero
Learned Scribe
USA
329 Posts |
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sno4wy
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2022 : 08:25:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Storyteller Hero
If bringing him into the post-Sundering era, it would be over a hundred years after Empyrean Odyssey.
A hundred years potentially getting groomed in Lolth's divine realm, studying with drow archmages of the past and having access to Lolth's collection of arcane secrets.
Right, but what I meant was are you taking into the account the events of the Empyrean Odyssey, or would you be carrying forward as though those events didn't happen and/or were insignificant enough to be written off?
I'm more curious than anything else, as Pharaun's appearance in EO was more of a cameo and I can see it being the case that his revelations/decisions then wouldn't hold up after a century of time in Lolth's domain. On the other hand, afaik the events of EO weren't retconned into the ground like the events of some novels have been, so if you do take them as canon as well, how would it affect your version of Pharaun that's brought back? |
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Storyteller Hero
Learned Scribe
USA
329 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2022 : 19:47:47
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quote:
Originally posted by sno4wy
quote:
Originally posted by Storyteller Hero
If bringing him into the post-Sundering era, it would be over a hundred years after Empyrean Odyssey.
A hundred years potentially getting groomed in Lolth's divine realm, studying with drow archmages of the past and having access to Lolth's collection of arcane secrets.
Right, but what I meant was are you taking into the account the events of the Empyrean Odyssey, or would you be carrying forward as though those events didn't happen and/or were insignificant enough to be written off?
I'm more curious than anything else, as Pharaun's appearance in EO was more of a cameo and I can see it being the case that his revelations/decisions then wouldn't hold up after a century of time in Lolth's domain. On the other hand, afaik the events of EO weren't retconned into the ground like the events of some novels have been, so if you do take them as canon as well, how would it affect your version of Pharaun that's brought back?
I think Pharaun might make it a side hobby to keep tabs on his son through divination, and maybe intervene if he finds out that his son is in danger.
Pharaun, despite his malice towards Quenthel Baenre, probably never lost his faith in Lolth, since his death in War of the Spider Queen was not the first time he experienced death, and his first "death" was when he acquired his sense of awe and admiration for the goddess.
The interactions between Pharaun and Quenthel probably won't be as snappy as they have to keep up appearances for both their respective Houses and maintaining stability in the city.
Pharaun might try to get Ryld Argith resurrected as well, as they've have a century to make up in Lolth's divine realm.
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Edited by - Storyteller Hero on 22 Feb 2022 19:48:43 |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2022 : 03:02:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Storyteller Hero
quote:
Originally posted by sno4wy
quote:
Originally posted by Storyteller Hero
If bringing him into the post-Sundering era, it would be over a hundred years after Empyrean Odyssey.
A hundred years potentially getting groomed in Lolth's divine realm, studying with drow archmages of the past and having access to Lolth's collection of arcane secrets.
Right, but what I meant was are you taking into the account the events of the Empyrean Odyssey, or would you be carrying forward as though those events didn't happen and/or were insignificant enough to be written off?
I'm more curious than anything else, as Pharaun's appearance in EO was more of a cameo and I can see it being the case that his revelations/decisions then wouldn't hold up after a century of time in Lolth's domain. On the other hand, afaik the events of EO weren't retconned into the ground like the events of some novels have been, so if you do take them as canon as well, how would it affect your version of Pharaun that's brought back?
I think Pharaun might make it a side hobby to keep tabs on his son through divination, and maybe intervene if he finds out that his son is in danger.
Pharaun, despite his malice towards Quenthel Baenre, probably never lost his faith in Lolth, since his death in War of the Spider Queen was not the first time he experienced death, and his first "death" was when he acquired his sense of awe and admiration for the goddess.
The interactions between Pharaun and Quenthel probably won't be as snappy as they have to keep up appearances for both their respective Houses and maintaining stability in the city.
Pharaun might try to get Ryld Argith resurrected as well, as they've have a century to make up in Lolth's divine realm.
*Spoilers*
Yeah, Phaeraun kind of implied in EO that he missed Ryld (I think he said Kael reminded him of Ryld), which kind of made me wonder why he hadn't seen each other, considering they both went to Lolth.
Phaeraun got the short end of the stick in EO, imho. But it always made me wonder...I mean, I assume he returned to Lolth, but if I remember correctly, he died in Celestia or Elysium, which is the realm of another deity. I assume Lolth still had claim to him, so it wouldn't matter, and there was no mention of him now being in Celestia.
I would love to see a return of Ryld and Phaeraun. |
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The Return of Pharaun Myzzrym - Storycrafting
