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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1309 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Jan 2022 : 11:38:01
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Hello there.
Check this out.
quote:
...Monsters of the Multiverse seems to set the stage for a move away from the Forgotten Realms as the chief campaign setting for the game...
There was a time when I would have considered this development concerning; however, Wizards of the Coast's present handling of the Realms makes such a change welcome.
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Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2022 : 13:39:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Azar
Hello there.
Check this out.
quote:
...Monsters of the Multiverse seems to set the stage for a move away from the Forgotten Realms as the chief campaign setting for the game...
There was a time when I would have considered this development concerning; however, Wizards of the Coast's present handling of the Realms makes such a change welcome.
So, some third party notes something we've been noting here for a while (that the goblinoids may very well have come here from the feywild like the elves). They then proclaim, with no other notes around it to suggest why, that this means WotC is moving away from the realms? Not really sure I can agree with that assertion one way or another, other than to say he provides no argument to support it. There has always been an assertion that a lot of the races of faerun came from the feywild (not just elves). I'd imagine the hags of Rashemen did. The various pixies, sprites, faerie dragons, dryads, etc... did. Part of the question that might need to be raised is what is the difference between the feywild, faerie, and the spirit world. Are they actually the same thing, or is it that there's actually a difference. Much like abeir and toril splitting apart and occasionally crashing back and forth, has that world suffered similar things (after all, we get totally different pictures of it with each edition almost... 4e came the closest to defining it, to give that edition props).
That being said, if they want to explore the feywild.... I say let them. It's getting to a point that I'd be more interested in seeing what some of US do with the realms by say DM's Guild than I would WotC. I see someone says that they're doing a new regional book on Thay, and I'd be intrigued to see what they do with it (myself I've been so much more focused on what the people who may have gone to Abeir did that I lost a lot of my drive for that region once it became an undead filled place with lackluster support for the council of wizards of all schools of magic idea.... where everyone's a lich in service to Tam). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2022 : 14:55:39
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I'm not a fan of the feywild, myself; I prefer Faerie. If I had to run with it, though, I'd say that Faerie is harder to reach and is, in a sense, more distant. The feywild would be something "closer" to the Prime, and would be something of a mix of the two planes.
I would also limit those native to Faerie. The true fae, like the pixies and sprites and such, would be from Faerie. Any of the other races would be from the feywild. A quick way to separate them would be that the immortal (or near-immortal) nature spirit types would be from Faerie, and the rest would be from the feywild.
(I've a fascination with the fae and I'm not hugely fond of the way their home is usually handled in RPGs... So I separate the feywild from Faerie and use the old 3.x book Faeries from Bastion Press for anything pertaining to Faerie itself)
(On a related note, I've given the Shadowfell the same treatment: it's "closer" than Shadow and is a blend of Shadow and Prime) |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 28 Jan 2022 14:56:22 |
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Sunderstone
Learned Scribe
104 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2022 : 15:05:18
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| I would love if somehow, this allowed Ed to reset the Realms to pre Time of Troubles era. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2022 : 19:22:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'm not a fan of the feywild, myself; I prefer Faerie. If I had to run with it, though, I'd say that Faerie is harder to reach and is, in a sense, more distant. The feywild would be something "closer" to the Prime, and would be something of a mix of the two planes.
I would also limit those native to Faerie. The true fae, like the pixies and sprites and such, would be from Faerie. Any of the other races would be from the feywild. A quick way to separate them would be that the immortal (or near-immortal) nature spirit types would be from Faerie, and the rest would be from the feywild.
(I've a fascination with the fae and I'm not hugely fond of the way their home is usually handled in RPGs... So I separate the feywild from Faerie and use the old 3.x book Faeries from Bastion Press for anything pertaining to Faerie itself)
(On a related note, I've given the Shadowfell the same treatment: it's "closer" than Shadow and is a blend of Shadow and Prime)
On the shadowfell and plane of shadow.... wasn't there at one point this idea that there was the "mirror of the prime on shadow". I picture the shadowfell as that.... what would be called the "border ethereal" for the ethereal plane.
On faerie and feywild, I could see something similar done, except that concept is actually more like what the spirit world is described as in many ways. In my view it might be like Toril is "mirrored" into the spirit world and you traverse it to get to the deeper areas of "places where the fey are". But then that brings up the discussion like we were just noting.... faerie and feywild are extremely similar in what's been documented. It might be that at time portions of "place" have been found on one side or the other.... and they may have crossed into shadow as well. So, for instance, the unseelie court may have been in the plane of shadow at one point, in the feydark in others, and in faerie at other times.... or faerie and the feywild may be the same damned thing. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1309 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2022 : 22:45:59
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| I was never keen on both the Feywild and the Shadowfell; those planes of existence gave me the impression that someone at WOTC was trying to stand out and/or justify setting changes involving monsters. |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2022 : 23:57:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Azar
I was never keen on both the Feywild and the Shadowfell; those planes of existence gave me the impression that someone at WOTC was trying to stand out and/or justify setting changes involving monsters.
I've long considered both of them to be just random, pointless changes. There's been a lot done to the setting, over the years, that seemed like they were making changes just for the sake of making changes, and not because there was any intent to add to or further develop the setting. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2022 : 00:40:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Azar
I was never keen on both the Feywild and the Shadowfell; those planes of existence gave me the impression that someone at WOTC was trying to stand out and/or justify setting changes involving monsters.
I've long considered both of them to be just random, pointless changes. There's been a lot done to the setting, over the years, that seemed like they were making changes just for the sake of making changes, and not because there was any intent to add to or further develop the setting.
So many of those. The ones that occurred in monster lore are the ones that bothered me the most.
I am an optimist however, and I hope one day a real fan will take over production and all will be well. I always look to Marvel for inspiration. Think of the pre-Iron Man movies until Feige got to the helm. That's all it takes. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3741 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2022 : 15:57:02
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| -I never liked any setting, period, being the default for generic rule books. Obviously, it's kinda hard to fill in a 200-300 page book if it only contains lifeless rules and statblocks, but it always caused cultural weirdness (that usually was easily ignored, but still). Every world had it's own spin on monsters/planes/magic/whatever, so. I liked the generic 3e era books, whichever ones they were, that had sidebars like "X in the Forgotten Realms", "X in Eberron" and so on. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerûn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerûn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 29 Jan 2022 15:57:51 |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2022 : 21:57:10
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I've never really understood the Shadowfell. It's a run down version of the Prime or at least the "real" world. Great, but how do I use it? Never liked it because it was kinda just meh. Shadows make me think two dimensions, and if the real world is alive, I'd say the Shadowfell should be associated with Entropy and placed also at like the end of time when everything is deadish. I dunno, heh. Or just revert it to the Plane of Shadow.
At any rate, whenever something gets printed that I don't care much for, I just remind myself it's all unreliable narrator. I prefer to think of most of 5E as new and/or old books found in Candlekeep and being relayed to us by some scribe or author other than Elminster. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2022 : 22:14:42
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The Shadowfell was typically depicted almost as a sort of poor-man's Ravenloft.
Eberron and Birthright each had a variant of the same idea. You could turn a corner or pass a doorway and begin to realize you've been ambushed by a plane - you see the world around you in a dark, muted, grim, faded, unhappy, almost twisted way. A subtle transition, not an obvious one, until suddenly you're fully immersed and it's already far too late to turn back.
So, like Ravenloft, the Shadowfell (by any name) is intended to be used as a setting. You don't just step in and out of shadows like a Shade. You end up being railroaded into a journey through dreary twilight which drags you wherever the DM/author wants the narrative to go. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2022 : 01:38:17
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| Was there not a counterpart to the Shadowfell? It seems reasonable that if you've got a dark, run-down imitation of the Prime, there should also be an imitation of the Prime where everything is bright and new and spotless. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2022 : 02:26:03
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I would be very glad to see them move on from the Realms.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1309 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2022 : 02:30:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Azar
I was never keen on both the Feywild and the Shadowfell; those planes of existence gave me the impression that someone at WOTC was trying to stand out and/or justify setting changes involving monsters.
I've long considered both of them to be just random, pointless changes. There's been a lot done to the setting, over the years, that seemed like they were making changes just for the sake of making changes, and not because there was any intent to add to or further develop the setting.
Wizards of the Coast - particularly in regards to The Forgotten Realms - perplexes me: they invent substitute settings while they neglect readily expandable legacy material (i.e., The Plane of Shadow and whatever plane Titania and Oberon inhabited pre-Feywild) and they perpetually neglect virtually EVERY region other than The Western Heartlands. |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3741 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2022 : 17:17:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Was there not a counterpart to the Shadowfell? It seems reasonable that if you've got a dark, run-down imitation of the Prime, there should also be an imitation of the Prime where everything is bright and new and spotless.
-Technically, I guess it was supposed to be the "Feywild". Going by what Wiki has to say, the 4e DMG said, "Finding some things of the Prime too 'bright' or too 'dark,' the Primordials tore these parts from the Prime, creating the Feywild and the Plane of Shadow (which later became the Shadowfell), respectively." The "Feywild" isn't particularly much of an opposite of the Plane of Shadow, but hey. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerûn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerûn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4441 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2022 : 18:54:20
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| I've always just assumed the Feywild to be another word/verbiage for Faerie and the same with the Shadowfell and Plane of Shadow. You're gonnna find the vast majority of monsters from these places in their respective new names so... |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4441 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2022 : 19:03:08
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I would be very glad to see them move on from the Realms.
-- George Krashos
They've tried: Mythic Odyssey's of Theros, Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica, Eberron: Rising from the Last War, & Strixhaven: Curriculum of Chaos but then people complained about it. My hope is that they start writing adventures for other settings. Curse of Strahd was fine, didn't involve the Realms unless you wanted it to and I think the same was done with Ghosts of Saltmarsh that gave you ideas where to put it IF you wanted to use the Realms.
More of that would be nice. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3741 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2022 : 19:59:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
I've always just assumed the Feywild to be another word/verbiage for Faerie and the same with the Shadowfell and Plane of Shadow. You're gonnna find the vast majority of monsters from these places in their respective new names so...
-I may be misremembering, but wasn't "Shadowfell" an amalgamation of the Plane of Shadows and the Negative Energy Plane? Whereas "Feywild" was just a rename for the Plane of Faerie, with nothing else in particular shuffled in (in this case, Positive Energy Plane would be most relevant here, to make it an opposite of "Shadowfell"). |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerûn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerûn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1309 Posts |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2022 : 02:16:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Azar
I have a sneaking suspicion that these changes may have stemmed from the shunning of Planescape.
Shunning Planescape is one thing. I can understand arguments against "fragmenting" D&D into a whole pile of different settings. Planescape and Spelljammer, by their very nature, are always going to not-quite-fit into a nice, clean, simplified group of setting products. Especially since WotC (and other companies) offer a bunch of other non-D&D settings - some fans will be eager to see these interconnected, some fans will be vehemently opposed to the idea.
But I don't agree with shunning Planescape while simultaneously robbing Planescape. The monsters created for that setting were created for that setting. They were part of a different "ecosystem". And they were somebody else's work. It speaks much about the (lack of) ethics and (lack of) creativity within WotC when they have to steal from themselves, when they pretend otherwise and hope their customers won't notice. |
[/Ayrik] |
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questing gm
Master of Realmslore
Malaysia
1452 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2022 : 03:14:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-I may be misremembering, but wasn't "Shadowfell" an amalgamation of the Plane of Shadows and the Negative Energy Plane?
How I understand it now, according to Ed:
quote:
What Shar did was successfully manipulate Cyric into murdering Mystra, causing the Spellplague (as the dying Weave ‘went wild,’ great ripples crashing across it from Weave anchor to Weave anchor). As existing wards and spells failed all across Toril, and wizards went mad, Shar was busy elsewhere. Out among the planes, to be precise.
Where, caused by the widening ripples, the Elemental and Energy Planes collapsed, merging roilingly into the Elemental Chaos.
Shar played lockkeeper, exerting all of her personal power (and she’s one of the few deities who can work with necrotic energies without being diminished or altered by them, and understands the properties of necrotic energy) to steer as much as she could of the necrotic energies flowing from the collapsing Negative Energy Plane so that rather than being lost into the stew of Elemental Chaos, they flowed into her home plane, the existing Plane of Shadow (we wrote of this on page 69 of the 4e Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide).
This changed the Plane of Shadow, and clergy of Shar will tell you that “the Shadowfell” (Shar’s name for the altered Plane of Shadow), was her “creation.” So it is, but she didn’t create it out of nothing. If I took the outer panels off my old tractor and replaced them with pieces of a Ferrari, I have ‘made’ something new, but it’s still my old tractor, that I bought rather than made from the ground its tires sit on, up, underneath.
With its new necrotic energies, the altered Plane of Shadow gained some new properties. Many souls of the dead came now to the Shadowfell, and had to pass through it to get to the Fugue Plane. And—and this was the entire reason why Shar acted as she did, hoping to increase her own power and reach thereby—the necrotic energies of the Shadowfell were the new energy source for, and root source of, all shadow magic. The power and reach of shadow magic cast/called upon in the Prime Material Plane (on Toril) had been subtly ebbing and fading for some time, and by this move Shar boosted shadow magic and her own might, in the Realms.
All planes change, over time, influenced by energies leaking from, and actual invasions from, adjacent planes; the planes don’t exist in isolation, but affect each other constantly (though post-Spellplague, the Astral Sea and the Elemental Chaos surround and separate the other planes, and so act as buffers between them). So the Plane of Shadow has been called many things by sentient mortals, down the ages, such as Shadowland, Shadow, and “the demiplane of Shadow,” and these different terms don’t always merely denote different mortal ways of viewing the same thing, they actually describe different versions of the same plane as it evolves.
Source: https://twitter.com/TheEdVerse/status/1259164665290113026
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2022 : 05:01:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
quote:
Originally posted by Azar
I have a sneaking suspicion that these changes may have stemmed from the shunning of Planescape.
Shunning Planescape is one thing. I can understand arguments against "fragmenting" D&D into a whole pile of different settings. Planescape and Spelljammer, by their very nature, are always going to not-quite-fit into a nice, clean, simplified group of setting products. Especially since WotC (and other companies) offer a bunch of other non-D&D settings - some fans will be eager to see these interconnected, some fans will be vehemently opposed to the idea.
But I don't agree with shunning Planescape while simultaneously robbing Planescape. The monsters created for that setting were created for that setting. They were part of a different "ecosystem". And they were somebody else's work. It speaks much about the (lack of) ethics and (lack of) creativity within WotC when they have to steal from themselves, when they pretend otherwise and hope their customers won't notice.
As a huge Spelljammer fan, I'm quite willing to say: Planescape was the better setting, in pretty much every way. I don't like it as much as Spelljammer, but it was integrated in with the existing stuff much better, it fitted in with the existing stuff better, and was a far more cohesive and well-planned setting than Spelljammer ever thought about being.
If I had to connect all the settings again today, I'd start with Planescape.
I think they'd be well-off to relaunch that setting, but I fear their current multiversal focus and the mangling of everything planar they've done will mean that it would be changed into something barely recognizable. They're happy to mangle what others have done, but they'll not even think about doing the same to their own stuff. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2022 : 15:53:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Was there not a counterpart to the Shadowfell? It seems reasonable that if you've got a dark, run-down imitation of the Prime, there should also be an imitation of the Prime where everything is bright and new and spotless.
Yeah, in 4e's "what we're gonna do" plans, basically the feywild and shadowfell were supposed to be "mirrors" of the prime like you describe. So, like the "feydark" in the "feywild" might have been mirrored over versions of cities in Toril's underdark. That was the initial plan. I don't think it was exactly shown that way.
At the same time, that's exactly what the "spirit world" was also described as in 3e.... a place where the waterfall is on the prime would be a much more majestic waterfall in the spirit world, etc....
Meanwhile, in Kara-tur, there was no astral connection in 3.5e to their lands, rather you went to the spirit world. At this point, they've done so many things like this, it's just a mess. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2022 : 20:14:26
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| At this point I don’t even care anymore what is done and what change is made into what. I just want something to remain the go to lore for more than a decade. I have maintained lore of my own for decades with friends and keep trying to explain away changes so that there is at least an awkward shoehorn into current canon. The reason I do this is so that ALL materials including old and new can be used. But the changes and retcons are so common now I can’t even trust that within an edition it’ll stay the same. Sorry for my rant, it’s just frustrating. |
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Scars Unseen
Acolyte
Japan
16 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2022 : 09:13:29
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| I agree that WotC do themselves a disservice with all the constant changes. It may be intended to keep new material relevant so that people need to keep buying books, but in reality it does the opposite. With all the changes, the best thing you can do as a group is find your own personal cutoff point and never buy any products after that. It's the only way to have a stable setting with their ongoing strategy of always going forward (but only in limited regions) and refusing to even acknowledge past canon. For some people, that may be the Grey Box, for some it may be the 3E FRCS, but if you're actually running a game, it's going to be somewhere, and products after that point aren't much use seemingly by design. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2022 : 13:32:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
At this point I don’t even care anymore what is done and what change is made into what. I just want something to remain the go to lore for more than a decade. I have maintained lore of my own for decades with friends and keep trying to explain away changes so that there is at least an awkward shoehorn into current canon. The reason I do this is so that ALL materials including old and new can be used. But the changes and retcons are so common now I can’t even trust that within an edition it’ll stay the same. Sorry for my rant, it’s just frustrating.
I hear you on that. My personal take is becoming that there's very little different between the spirit world and the feywild, and they're just another name for the "bright land that's right next to the prime, as opposed to the dark land that is the shadowfell".... and that you must transfer THROUGH it to get to other "deeper" lands. In essence, it becomes another form of "astral" but not to the planes of alignment. In some places, they may call it the feywild and in others they may call it the spirit world. Primal spirits and archfey inhabit it, and in some places it may be extremely savage and dangerous, while in others extremely peaceful and pleasant. Like someone was talking about before with Ravenloft and the plane of shadow, you can turn a corner and just suddenly "find yourself there".... and long ago this is how so many fey ended up in Toril.
To note, the "deeper" places that the spirit world/feywild might connect to might be the unusual places some of us have thought about. For instance, a plane of limitless light or radiance, a plane of faerie, there might be a beastlands place that's nothing but animals, a place of vast plant life filled with waterfalls and pools, a place of intelligent items/constructs, etc.... |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1625 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2022 : 02:19:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Azar
Hello there.
Check this out.
quote:
...Monsters of the Multiverse seems to set the stage for a move away from the Forgotten Realms as the chief campaign setting for the game...
There was a time when I would have considered this development concerning; however, Wizards of the Coast's present handling of the Realms makes such a change welcome.
It ironically backs up my belief that a FRCG for 5.5e is coming 2024, because it ends the idea of exploding piecemeal various regions of FR via hard cover adventures. |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1309 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2022 : 02:51:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
quote:
Originally posted by Azar
I have a sneaking suspicion that these changes may have stemmed from the shunning of Planescape.
Shunning Planescape is one thing. I can understand arguments against "fragmenting" D&D into a whole pile of different settings. Planescape and Spelljammer, by their very nature, are always going to not-quite-fit into a nice, clean, simplified group of setting products. Especially since WotC (and other companies) offer a bunch of other non-D&D settings - some fans will be eager to see these interconnected, some fans will be vehemently opposed to the idea.
But I don't agree with shunning Planescape while simultaneously robbing Planescape. The monsters created for that setting were created for that setting. They were part of a different "ecosystem". And they were somebody else's work. It speaks much about the (lack of) ethics and (lack of) creativity within WotC when they have to steal from themselves, when they pretend otherwise and hope their customers won't notice.
Planescape simultaneously works well as an independent setting and a collection of materials on the planes; myself, I simply pick what I want (say, information on Elysium from Planes of Conflict) and excise the rest (e.g., the jargon/slang endemic to Sigil). With a modicum of effort, Wizards of the Coast could have easily - easily - brought back Planescape in an updated format friendly to those who are looking to get into multiversal adventures and those who simply want lore-rich accounts of planes that can be readily adapted for their campaigns...be they set in Greyhawk, The Forgotten Realms, a homemade setting or something else entirely.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
quote:
Originally posted by Azar
I have a sneaking suspicion that these changes may have stemmed from the shunning of Planescape.
Shunning Planescape is one thing. I can understand arguments against "fragmenting" D&D into a whole pile of different settings. Planescape and Spelljammer, by their very nature, are always going to not-quite-fit into a nice, clean, simplified group of setting products. Especially since WotC (and other companies) offer a bunch of other non-D&D settings - some fans will be eager to see these interconnected, some fans will be vehemently opposed to the idea.
But I don't agree with shunning Planescape while simultaneously robbing Planescape. The monsters created for that setting were created for that setting. They were part of a different "ecosystem". And they were somebody else's work. It speaks much about the (lack of) ethics and (lack of) creativity within WotC when they have to steal from themselves, when they pretend otherwise and hope their customers won't notice.
As a huge Spelljammer fan, I'm quite willing to say: Planescape was the better setting, in pretty much every way. I don't like it as much as Spelljammer, but it was integrated in with the existing stuff much better, it fitted in with the existing stuff better, and was a far more cohesive and well-planned setting than Spelljammer ever thought about being.
If I had to connect all the settings again today, I'd start with Planescape.
I think they'd be well-off to relaunch that setting, but I fear their current multiversal focus and the mangling of everything planar they've done will mean that it would be changed into something barely recognizable. They're happy to mangle what others have done, but they'll not even think about doing the same to their own stuff.
I like to plunder Spelljammer for its monsters. Incidentally, Baldur's Gate 2 of all games features a Beholder variant that canonically originates from Spelljammer.
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
quote:
Originally posted by Azar
Hello there.
Check this out.
quote:
...Monsters of the Multiverse seems to set the stage for a move away from the Forgotten Realms as the chief campaign setting for the game...
There was a time when I would have considered this development concerning; however, Wizards of the Coast's present handling of the Realms makes such a change welcome.
It ironically backs up my belief that a FRCG for 5.5e is coming 2024, because it ends the idea of exploding piecemeal various regions of FR via hard cover adventures.
Hot damn...only a decade late   . |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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AJA
Senior Scribe
USA
770 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2022 : 06:45:36
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I would be very glad to see them move on from the Realms.
-- George Krashos
Oof. What is "Things My Younger Self Would Never, Not In A Million Years, Believe I Would Ever Say."  |
AJA
YAFRP
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Scots Dragon
Seeker
United Kingdom
89 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2022 : 07:17:08
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quote:
Originally posted by AJA
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I would be very glad to see them move on from the Realms.
-- George Krashos
Oof. What is "Things My Younger Self Would Never, Not In A Million Years, Believe I Would Ever Say."
To be fair, that ship sailed in 2008 |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1309 Posts |
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WOTC shifting focus from FR?
