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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1309 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Jun 2021 : 04:06:22
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Hello!
In terms of the Forgotten Realms timeline, my campaign is set right on the cusp between AD&D 2e to D&D 3e. Bane is not quite back yet, but his slated canonical return isn't far off. On the other hand, I could mix things up by throwing a curveball that surprises veterans of this setting: keeping Iyachtu Xvim as a divine player. To that end, I have two questions/thoughts.
1. What are the advantages of using Bane's offspring over the original big bad himself? What is appealing about letting Xvim remain for a while longer...or even permanently? Near as I can tell, he's interesting if you want an underdog evil around causing problems that may be overlooked by forces of good stretched thin.
2. In AD&D 2e, priests of Iyachtu Xvim lack access to healing magic; they do eventually gain access to raise dead, regenerate and resurrection, but those are relatively high level spells with commensurately high costs. On the other hand, the priesthood is primarily Lawful Evil; cooperation of a sort comes naturally to them. I can imagine individual churches of The Godson tentatively allying themselves with Neutral/Lawful Evil religions in "marriages of convenience" and perhaps some Lawful Neutral religions could be convinced to temporarily provide restorative aid as long as they (appear to) follow the letter of the regional law.
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Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2021 : 14:13:54
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Personally, I like the idea of Xvim remaining around. I thought he had more style than Bane; I always regarded Bane as kind of an "evil for evil's sake" kind of bad guy, because that was how he came across in the Avatar books and that was my intro to him.
I trust you've seen my theory that Bane didn't return in 3E and that it's actually Xvim pretending to be him? |
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Eldacar
Senior Scribe
438 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2021 : 15:48:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Azar
1. What are the advantages of using Bane's offspring over the original big bad himself? What is appealing about letting Xvim remain for a while longer...or even permanently? Near as I can tell, he's interesting if you want an underdog evil around causing problems that may be overlooked by forces of good stretched thin.
Well, my first thought would be that Bane was the ultimate tyrant.
Was.
If Bane doesn't come back, then that immediately changes the "future scope" of Xvim, beyond the typical "Bane may be dead but his evil legacy yet lives" notion. After he became a lesser god, in Realms canon he was sometimes described as petty. Except Cyric already is petty (and crazy), so the big thing, I think, is that Xvim needs to be adequately differentiated from that. He already was the "Godson" and inherits a chunk of Bane's church, sure, but now, with Bane not returning Xvim is placed into the position where he needs to actually seek his father's throne for real. He ceases to be a disappointing stopgap waiting for Bane's resurrection, and becomes an actual inheritor. The "rightful heir" when placed against Cyric the "crazed usurper" of the throne. Plenty of fiction can be (and has been) written about that particular plot arc, you just need to give it evil-god colouring.
So how is Xvim going to actually prove that he can live up to Dear Old Dead Dad's reputation? After all, this is a demigod who got his ass kicked by a mortal whose greatest* talent was her fancy singing voice. Is he going to stay a Saturday morning cartoon, or is he going to make a serious play for ascendancy?
* Reductionist at the very least, but you get the idea, I hope. |
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Marc
Senior Scribe
658 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2021 : 22:25:58
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| They appear as FR's versions of Morgoth and Sauron, Xvim does similar things as Bane except on a smaller scale, which I prefer for the Zhentarim, as they are evil merchants, and in 3e after Bane returned it seemed that they'll turn into an evil empire |
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Stones Finder
Acolyte
Canada
30 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2021 : 03:45:46
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I have long preferred Xvim to Bane, and I never saw the point of Bane's return through Xvim in 3e. It struck me as an afterthought - there was no hint of it in the few 3e Realms products before the FRCS. As of Cloak and Dagger, Xvim had revitalized the Zhentarim in ways Bane never did.
When/if my campaigns reach 1372 DR, I'm going to completely ignore Bane's return. Long live Xvim, the competent tyrant. |
Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it - Advice for the 5e design team |
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EricScott
Acolyte
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2021 : 09:49:24
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Hi, how I agree with you my preference also falls on Xvim to Bane. I don't know, I generally preferred to ignore Bayen most of the time! 
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Edited by - EricScott on 10 Jun 2021 09:51:54 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2021 : 14:16:34
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My personal preference is to confuse matters. By that, I mean.
Xvim is "Bane", as in the Bane that's NOT bound to the prime. He has been since he took over several years prior to the spellplague. Let's call him "Xvim/Bane"
The temple to Bane known as the Black Lord's Cloak in Mourktar in Threskel (his largest temple) went to Abeir, bringing a powerful and personal artifact of Bane to Abeir. His priests, transferred to Abeir, called out, but Xvim could not reach them. The High Priest went and touched the Black Lord's Cloak. Via this artifact, Bane "possesses" one this priest and creates an lesser avatar of himself (like what existed during the Time of Troubles, where the body is shared with a mortal... like a go'auld in stargate... not like a normal avatar).
Gilgeam's physical remains went to Abeir as they were buried in Unther. The avatar of Bane invades the tomb and uses the godflesh of Gilgeam to create a more powerful "manifestation"/"avatar"/"aspect" of Bane, but using the name Gilgeam. Possibly he was able to do this because possibly in the past he had already been controlling Gilgeam.
With the second sundering, "Gilgeam/Bane" walks Toril in an avatar form, and hopes to oust his son from his former throne.
The "godflesh" of several other Untheric gods (Ki, Inanna, Utu, Nergal, Enlil, Ramman, Ishtar, Marduk, etc...) were also liberated by other deities while in Abeir and used by some (at least temporarily) until they could generate enough worship to create a more powerful form. Some of these entities may have been as follows
Ki - unknown
Inanna - Posed as Red Knight but actually another deity name for the Metahel
Utu - Lathander and as another deity name for the Metahel
Nergal - Myrkul
Enlil - unknown
Ramman - A warlike god of Thunder and Lightning for the Metahel
Ishtar - Eldath and as another deity name for the Metahel
Marduk - Tyr and as another deity name for the Metahel
Ereshkigal - a goddess of the dead for the Metahel |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2476 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2021 : 22:29:11
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Interesting theory. Just one issue: Gilgeam's body was completely disintegrated during the events of the Alabaster Staff novel. So there is no body the avatar to possess
Also, wasn't Marduk an alias of Bahamut? The Platinum Dragon do asume his avatar and powers during 1374 (according to Dragons of Faerūn).
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Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 10 Jun 2021 22:31:49 |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1309 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2021 : 19:09:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Personally, I like the idea of Xvim remaining around. I thought he had more style than Bane; I always regarded Bane as kind of an "evil for evil's sake" kind of bad guy, because that was how he came across in the Avatar books and that was my intro to him.
I trust you've seen my theory that Bane didn't return in 3E and that it's actually Xvim pretending to be him?
Indeed I have. I'd likely keep Xvim as Xvim, but the idea of Bane's offspring returning with the "superior marketing" of his father's image is intriguing. |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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[AD&D 2e] Iyachtu Xvim
