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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Jul 2021 : 08:51:53
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I'll wait to see the damage and then try and work out if it's fixable.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2021 : 14:24:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Not sure why the Aevendrow would be connected to that, though. I mean, yes, you could come up with some explanation and whatever, but it's not an immediate connection. It's just 2 elements that happen to be both located in similar areas.
You're right, probably won't happen, but just to show the connection/thought that was in my brain. These aevendrow might represent a rejoining of the elven people that occurred after the tree of souls was made, but before the descent was cast, so using the tree of souls as a center, maybe they all "relink" to it as a basis. They then find out that the casting of the descent "did" something to the high mages who performed the ritual as well, maybe weakening their ties to the feywild or somesuch. Elves end up becoming more "fey" again, and maybe some of them whose souls had somehow been entrapped somewhere return to life, prompting a return to old homes.
They're retconning the Descent, tho. The drow were never exiled in this version, Lolth just went to a bunch of them and said "yo, wanna go live underground? We have cookies", and they accepted. Meanwhile, the majority of drow founded those two other cities. I guess Miyeritar still gets nuked in this version (assuming it hasn't been retconned), but the question is: what the hell happened to Ilythiir, that the majority of its population had to run away and found 2 new cities? That's probably a non-issue, though, since Ilythiir was likely retconned too except in name (I guess they're going to call the drow who followed Lolth "Ilythiiri", and have the other civilizations originate from unknown nations, or exist in their current incarnation from the get go, rather than being founded after some drow followed Lolth). Another question is: why did those two drow civilizations remain hidden, if they make up the majority of the drow?
Idk, they could have played on the history of Ilythiir and Miyeritar to explain the existence of these 2 cities, but I'm wondering if the dudes in charge of this are even aware that the FR drow have always had multiple civilizations, with a long ass-history.
Just wondering, why do you use the term majority? Not saying your wrong... wondering if in my blazing through the reading I skipped something. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3806 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2021 : 14:39:22
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| The implication in the dragon mag articles is that Lolth's faith is but a niche cult among the drow as a whole (a change that has its merits, from the perspective of leading premises to their conclusion, like I've already discussed here, though the way it's implemented is underwhelming: they're just saying that it's always been like this). |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 06 Jul 2021 14:39:49 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2021 : 14:50:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
The implication in the dragon mag articles is that Lolth's faith is but a niche cult among the drow as a whole (a change that has its merits, from the perspective of leading premises to their conclusion, like I've already discussed here, though the way it's implemented is underwhelming: they're just saying that it's always been like this).
Ah, gotcha, guess I need to start reading dragon+ . I so fell out of following their magazines once they turned virtual. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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deserk
Learned Scribe
Norway
238 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2021 : 21:02:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
The implication in the dragon mag articles is that Lolth's faith is but a niche cult among the drow as a whole (a change that has its merits, from the perspective of leading premises to their conclusion, like I've already discussed here, though the way it's implemented is underwhelming: they're just saying that it's always been like this).
Honestly i really hope that isn't the case.
Because if true, it would an unprecedented and massive rewrite of FR lore. And that would be really damaging to the integrity of the setting. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3806 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2021 : 21:44:07
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Well, they've already spitted it out. I doubt they're going to retract that after having made it public.
As it is now it's a rewrite, yes. Which is stupid, because a story in which Lolth loses everything essentially writes itself, given how nonsensical the whole premise of her "society" is. It's one of those "oh, it's fantasy, so I can do whatever I want" things that only worked when fantasy was new and there were no criteria on how to make good worldbuilding (which isn't just about adding details, far from it). |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 06 Jul 2021 21:44:25 |
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PattPlays
Senior Scribe
469 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2021 : 03:41:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
The Promenade has also been entirely removed from Dungeon of the Mad Mage, where it should have totally been included (in the Skullport section). Especially given that the followers of Eilistraee were retaking it, which would have created possible plot hooks in the book. Not only WotC removed the Promenade, but on the part of the map where the Promenade should have been.
Preeaach this drove me nuts. I wanted to be able to think about where that one book character got mazed with a divine shard inside of them and be able to point to if on a map. |
:The world's greatest OOTA fan/critic: :"Powder kegs within powder kegs!": :Meta-Dimensional Cheese: :Why is the Wand of Orcus just back?: :We still don't know the nature of Souls and the Positive Energy Plane: :PC on profile, Aldritch Elpyptrat Maxinfield: :Helljumpers, Bungie.net: :Rock Hard Gladiator, RIP Fluidanim, Long Live Pluto: :IRC lives:
https://thisisstorytelling.wordpress.com
T_P_T |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1625 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2021 : 02:10:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Not sure why the Aevendrow would be connected to that, though. I mean, yes, you could come up with some explanation and whatever, but it's not an immediate connection. It's just 2 elements that happen to be both located in similar areas.
You're right, probably won't happen, but just to show the connection/thought that was in my brain. These aevendrow might represent a rejoining of the elven people that occurred after the tree of souls was made, but before the descent was cast, so using the tree of souls as a center, maybe they all "relink" to it as a basis. They then find out that the casting of the descent "did" something to the high mages who performed the ritual as well, maybe weakening their ties to the feywild or somesuch. Elves end up becoming more "fey" again, and maybe some of them whose souls had somehow been entrapped somewhere return to life, prompting a return to old homes.
They're retconning the Descent, tho. The drow were never exiled in this version, Lolth just went to a bunch of them and said "yo, wanna go live underground? We have cookies", and they accepted. Meanwhile, the majority of drow founded those two other cities. I guess Miyeritar still gets nuked in this version (assuming it hasn't been retconned), but the question is: what the hell happened to Ilythiir, that the majority of its population had to run away and found 2 new cities? That's probably a non-issue, though, since Ilythiir was likely retconned too except in name (I guess they're going to call the drow who followed Lolth "Ilythiiri", and have the other civilizations originate from unknown nations, or exist in their current incarnation from the get go, rather than being founded after some drow followed Lolth). Another question is: why did those two drow civilizations remain hidden, if they make up the majority of the drow?
Idk, they could have played on the history of Ilythiir and Miyeritar to explain the existence of these 2 cities, but I'm wondering if the dudes in charge of this are even aware that the FR drow have always had multiple civilizations, with a long ass-history.
According to Chris Perkins they are splitting the canon into multiple canons, Novel Canon, Video Game Canon, Comics Canon, 1e Canon, 2e Canon, 3e Canon, 4e Canon, and 5e Canon, MtG Canon is not listed, but you could infer that is its own Canon too. They did it to clear things up for newbies and partners, but its only going to make it all more confusing because the settings lore was never designed for this. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2021 : 03:40:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
They did it to clear things up for newbies and partners, but its only going to make it all more confusing because the settings lore was never designed for this.
Of course, if this was really for newbies and partners, they could have printed a new campaign book -- which would have covered that stated goal *AND* given them something else to sell. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3806 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2021 : 03:41:04
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@Gyor, nah, that's just talk. There is still 1 canon, aka what they put in the stuff that they write, because that's what the current published setting is made up of. The new novels and other content will line up with the 5e vision, anything else would be counterproductive, especially for establishing their cinematic universe or whatever.
They're just saying that everything else won't matter until they want to, and in the way they want to, and trying to sugarcoat this with that PR talk. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 10 Aug 2021 03:44:03 |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2021 : 03:50:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Not sure why the Aevendrow would be connected to that, though. I mean, yes, you could come up with some explanation and whatever, but it's not an immediate connection. It's just 2 elements that happen to be both located in similar areas.
You're right, probably won't happen, but just to show the connection/thought that was in my brain. These aevendrow might represent a rejoining of the elven people that occurred after the tree of souls was made, but before the descent was cast, so using the tree of souls as a center, maybe they all "relink" to it as a basis. They then find out that the casting of the descent "did" something to the high mages who performed the ritual as well, maybe weakening their ties to the feywild or somesuch. Elves end up becoming more "fey" again, and maybe some of them whose souls had somehow been entrapped somewhere return to life, prompting a return to old homes.
They're retconning the Descent, tho. The drow were never exiled in this version, Lolth just went to a bunch of them and said "yo, wanna go live underground? We have cookies", and they accepted. Meanwhile, the majority of drow founded those two other cities. I guess Miyeritar still gets nuked in this version (assuming it hasn't been retconned), but the question is: what the hell happened to Ilythiir, that the majority of its population had to run away and found 2 new cities? That's probably a non-issue, though, since Ilythiir was likely retconned too except in name (I guess they're going to call the drow who followed Lolth "Ilythiiri", and have the other civilizations originate from unknown nations, or exist in their current incarnation from the get go, rather than being founded after some drow followed Lolth). Another question is: why did those two drow civilizations remain hidden, if they make up the majority of the drow?
Idk, they could have played on the history of Ilythiir and Miyeritar to explain the existence of these 2 cities, but I'm wondering if the dudes in charge of this are even aware that the FR drow have always had multiple civilizations, with a long ass-history.
According to Chris Perkins they are splitting the canon into multiple canons, Novel Canon, Video Game Canon, Comics Canon, 1e Canon, 2e Canon, 3e Canon, 4e Canon, and 5e Canon, MtG Canon is not listed, but you could infer that is its own Canon too. They did it to clear things up for newbies and partners, but its only going to make it all more confusing because the settings lore was never designed for this.
They also basically said that anything that is pre-2014 is no longer considered canon, and what is canon is what is in their products like the DMG. So, even if the novel line did resume (not including Drizzt, because RAS has never adhered to canon, anyway), they wouldn't be canon. Sure, they have their own "canon", but it's not the official canon. To pull an example from the thread on this topic, if a novel was about Jandar being freed from his horrible fate, unless they also addressed that in a module or guide, it wouldn't be considered "official" canon, and for all intents and purposes, Jander's situation is unchanged from OotA. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3806 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2021 : 04:07:04
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They will just make sure that the new novels align with their canon. The novel canon and module canon will still be the same for practical purposes (as in, what we read will be the same), all they said is just an excuse for them to ignore everything that came before, to warp it as they please, and so on.
If they don't want Jander to be freed, no novel will come out where he is freed. If they wanted him to be freed, that would probably be because they wanted to use him in a module. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 10 Aug 2021 04:14:59 |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
769 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2021 : 04:06:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
According to Chris Perkins they are splitting the canon into multiple canons, Novel Canon, Video Game Canon, Comics Canon, 1e Canon, 2e Canon, 3e Canon, 4e Canon, and 5e Canon, MtG Canon is not listed, but you could infer that is its own Canon too. They did it to clear things up for newbies and partners, but its only going to make it all more confusing because the settings lore was never designed for this.
Whelp that officially does it for me. I am done with D&D and done with FR. This even kills my desire to wanna play BG3 when it comes out. I'll stick to the other things I enjoy and hope people don't come and kill that too. It's been real all. |
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Eldacar
Senior Scribe
438 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2021 : 13:28:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
According to Chris Perkins they are splitting the canon into multiple canons, Novel Canon, Video Game Canon, Comics Canon, 1e Canon, 2e Canon, 3e Canon, 4e Canon, and 5e Canon, MtG Canon is not listed, but you could infer that is its own Canon too.
You know, comic book companies have tried doing this several times across the years. It never works. |
"The Wild Mages I have met exhibit a startling disregard for common sense, and are often meddling with powers far beyond their own control." ~Volo
"Not unlike a certain travelogue author with whom I am unfortunately acquainted." ~Elminster |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2021 : 17:25:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Caolin
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
According to Chris Perkins they are splitting the canon into multiple canons, Novel Canon, Video Game Canon, Comics Canon, 1e Canon, 2e Canon, 3e Canon, 4e Canon, and 5e Canon, MtG Canon is not listed, but you could infer that is its own Canon too. They did it to clear things up for newbies and partners, but its only going to make it all more confusing because the settings lore was never designed for this.
Whelp that officially does it for me. I am done with D&D and done with FR. This even kills my desire to wanna play BG3 when it comes out. I'll stick to the other things I enjoy and hope people don't come and kill that too. It's been real all.
I am about at this point, too. I put all my FR stuff in storage boxes (don't want to get rid of them yet, as some of them are hard to get, and I will hang on to them in the slim hope that maybe if I come back in a few years, things will be better. Doubtful). But yeah, time to focus more on my other interests. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Upcoming changes to drow
