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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Mar 2021 : 09:14:23
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While most d20 games are crunchier than I prefer to play these days, I’ve been released impressed with some of the changes they made to break away from the 3.5 chassis and toss out a ton of weird PC options (kobolds! androids! dhampirs! Lawful planetouched!).
I’m also pretty smitten with their efforts to bring on diverse writers and draw from more diverse cultural inspirations, with the West Africa-equivalent getting a huge setting supplement with an accompanying six volume campaign coming pretty soon. Especially in the light of how Chult has been handled, it’s really heartening to see.
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4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2021 : 13:31:29
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I've been running a PF2 game for my group through Fantasy Grounds since last summer. The rules are pretty clean, just the typical getting used to. I love how they use a mix of ancestries (human, elf, dwarf, gnome, kobold, goblin, catfolk, etc...) with heritages to make up stuff. There's common heritages, like Ancient-blooded Dwarf (resistant to magic) and Versatile Human (grants an extra feat at creation), but then the half-elf/half-orc are human heritages instead of a separate race. With Advanced Player's guide, they introduced Versatile Heritages: the Aasimars, Tieflings, elementals, shades, dhampirs, etc. that can be applied to ANY ancestry, so you can have that tiefling dwarf, or Duskwalker kobold.
The SRD rules are available at Archives of Nethys (https://2e.aonprd.com/) if you want to look them over before purchasing.
Oh, two more things:
- Right now, I'm running Age of Ashes for the group, but the Strength of Thousands adventure path you're talking about is definitely something I want to participate in when it comes out (August 5th). I'll post about it when I get it, maybe starting a game if there's interest.
- I'm working through the idea of making some stuff for the Realms in PF2 since the heritages and multiclassing system (feat trees instead of class levels) sounds like it may make running in the Realms interesting, if not fun.
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I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
Edited by - Ashe Ravenheart on 30 Mar 2021 13:33:17 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4441 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2021 : 15:43:58
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I have the core rulebook and wanted to like it, since a lot of dissenters said its like Paizo/Pathfinder wanted to make their own 4th Edition (which, well you know by now). I got it and read through the book.....eh I just haven't been sold. Some concepts I actually love, like shield durability and using it actually like a shield.....but then you have to 'use' an action and declare you're using a shield. Every. Turn. *yikes*
I like some of the Paladin....er sorry, Champion concepts but it still falls in like with trap options and no versatility. Sorry, I don't want to be saddled with a mount option for my career (Divine Ally choice can never be changed). Why couldn't they have -instead- just made them an available choice decided on at the beginning of the day? So I wake up, pray, choose Divine Ally (modify feats for what I want) and *boom* done. As a Player, you can even have have pre-selected suite of options based on your circumstances!
Lastly, and kind of what had really kept me from playing - Iterative attack penalties. I never liked them in 3.5 and never understood why they would keep them in PF2?
Now, I don't like ragging on any edition or game. These are just some hangup I've had when reading the system. There's a lot of things I read that I liked (spells get stronger depending upon the time spent casting), Rogue and Monks look solid, Fighters don't look like boring feats coupled together in a class. If someone asked me to play, I'm grabbing my dice!
As for the world, I'm glad they're taking the appropriate steps to fix issues within the industry. Inclusiveness, diversity, and axing bad stereotypes is absolutely a great start and I hope they keep more of that going. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2021 : 18:28:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
I have the core rulebook and wanted to like it, since a lot of dissenters said its like Paizo/Pathfinder wanted to make their own 4th Edition (which, well you know by now). I got it and read through the book.....eh I just haven't been sold. Some concepts I actually love, like shield durability and using it actually like a shield.....but then you have to 'use' an action and declare you're using a shield. Every. Turn. *yikes*
We haven't run into issues in play when using it, and I think it kinda works for the story. There are a lot of feats for shield blocking as well, making it so you can use it to protect allies, against reflex saves, or reducing damage, all without increasing the action economy.
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
I like some of the Paladin....er sorry, Champion concepts but it still falls in like with trap options and no versatility. Sorry, I don't want to be saddled with a mount option for my career (Divine Ally choice can never be changed). Why couldn't they have -instead- just made them an available choice decided on at the beginning of the day? So I wake up, pray, choose Divine Ally (modify feats for what I want) and *boom* done. As a Player, you can even have have pre-selected suite of options based on your circumstances!
Divine Ally can be a mount, your weapon, or even your shield. And the Advanced Player's Guide opens up the Champion to the Tenets of Evil.
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Lastly, and kind of what had really kept me from playing - Iterative attack penalties. I never liked them in 3.5 and never understood why they would keep them in PF2?
Again, in play this works out, and with the three-action system you can move, attack, and move without investing in feats. Also, if you have enough actions, you can cast multiple spells in a round (i.e. Magic missile can be a single action, so you could cast it three times in a row). Back to the iterative attack penalties, I think they kept it because you can choose to make multiple attacks, no matter what class you are. 4E has Basic Attack as one standard action (once per round) and 5E is the same (with abilities that grant you extra attacks). In this regard, the PF2 Monk can use a full round to make flurry of blows (1 action, two attacks, using the iterative multi-attack) with three actions and effectively make 6 attacks at +0/-5/-10/-10/-10/-10 (or +0/-4/-8/-8/-8/-8 with agile weapons). Power attacks are two actions, so the fighter could make a power attack at their full bonus and make a regular attack at -5 after it with the last action. It's a way of balancing out more attacks that 4E/5E with 4E/5E setting it up that you get less attacks, but without reducing the attack bonus.
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Now, I don't like ragging on any edition or game. These are just some hangup I've had when reading the system. There's a lot of things I read that I liked (spells get stronger depending upon the time spent casting), Rogue and Monks look solid, Fighters don't look like boring feats coupled together in a class. If someone asked me to play, I'm grabbing my dice!
Also with spells, you can learn the one spell and heighten it to make it more effective. You learn fireball at level 3 and it does 6d6, but if you prepare/cast it at level 9, it adds +2d6 for each heightened level, or 18d6. Likewise, the Spell Attack and Spell DC go up, and they are linked (casting a spell that attack someone could be +12, and your DCs for other spells are that plus ten (DC 22). Cantrips auto-heightened based on character level, so Acid Splash is at-will and previously you'd forget about it until you were out of other spells, but in PF2, when you're low-level, it does 1d6 damage, but at 20th level, it does 4d6 + spellcasting modifier, making worth using. And I do like the action use on spells, with every component taking one of your actions, and some spells allowing you to take more actions (like you said) to make it more powerful - cure being the prime example, with a single action making it a touch spell, two actions making it a ranged touch, and three actions making it an emanation/burst.
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
As for the world, I'm glad they're taking the appropriate steps to fix issues within the industry. Inclusiveness, diversity, and axing bad stereotypes is absolutely a great start and I hope they keep more of that going.
Heartily agree, there aren't any inherently evil "races", with the exception of the planar beings like Devils and Demons. And I've seen many examples of inclusiveness throughout the setting books coming out. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Wendolyn
Seeker
56 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2021 : 19:12:50
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I haven't played, but it sounds interesting from what's said above. Glad they have a strong area based on West Africa. I looked into the Heritage and Ancestry elements but was a little disappointed. My hopes were high. I thought it would be something like the Ancesty & Culture supplement,
https://www.dmsguild.com/product/314622/Ancestry--Culture-An-Alternative-to-Race-in-5e
But it seems like heritages are just subsets of ancestries, and don't facilitate things like an orc being raised by elves and thus speaking elvish and knowing how to use a longsword. But possibly I'm wrong! Seems like a cool system regardless. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4441 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2021 : 19:29:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
I have the core rulebook and wanted to like it, since a lot of dissenters said its like Paizo/Pathfinder wanted to make their own 4th Edition (which, well you know by now). I got it and read through the book.....eh I just haven't been sold. Some concepts I actually love, like shield durability and using it actually like a shield.....but then you have to 'use' an action and declare you're using a shield. Every. Turn. *yikes*
We haven't run into issues in play when using it, and I think it kinda works for the story. There are a lot of feats for shield blocking as well, making it so you can use it to protect allies, against reflex saves, or reducing damage, all without increasing the action economy.
Using the shield in ways like this is cool, sort of like the Interception fighting style in 5e, reduced damage to yourself or adjacent Ally 1d10 + proficiency bonus. What I'm talking about is having to declare shield use just for the normal +2 bonus you get for holding one.
I mean, maybe it's just assumed per-round like how I always treated the Dodge feat in 3.5 as I never required them to keep saying the bonus is against the orc. now the goblin. Now the giant. Etc. If so, that's cool.
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
I like some of the Paladin....er sorry, Champion concepts but it still falls in like with trap options and no versatility. Sorry, I don't want to be saddled with a mount option for my career (Divine Ally choice can never be changed). Why couldn't they have -instead- just made them an available choice decided on at the beginning of the day? So I wake up, pray, choose Divine Ally (modify feats for what I want) and *boom* done. As a Player, you can even have have pre-selected suite of options based on your circumstances!
Divine Ally can be a mount, your weapon, or even your shield. And the Advanced Player's Guide opens up the Champion to the Tenets of Evil.
Yeah. I get that the Divine Ally can be/do a lot of things. The concept isn't bad at all. Cementing it into my character without any deviation once that choice is made is. That's like saying "ok wizard, you've chosen your 1st level spell slots. You can only ever use these slots for these specific spells for the next 20 levels.
One of the significant impairments against non-casters and half-casters in 3.5 was a lack of flexibility overall. Weapon Focus was for 1 Weapon. Spell Focus targeted an entire School. Once a Feat was chosen, IF the DM allowed retraining, then it was once per level for one feat. I had hoped that, when I started reading PF2, they would've made steps to help in this area. Alas, that did not happen.
For the record, 4E (as a comparison) only allowed power/feat swaps once per level - which really rankled me as well, requiring house rules to allow for more versatility. Definitely not something that only PF2 has issues with.
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Lastly, and kind of what had really kept me from playing - Iterative attack penalties. I never liked them in 3.5 and never understood why they would keep them in PF2?
Again, in play this works out, and with the three-action system you can move, attack, and move without investing in feats. Also, if you have enough actions, you can cast multiple spells in a round (i.e. Magic missile can be a single action, so you could cast it three times in a row). Back to the iterative attack penalties, I think they kept it because you can choose to make multiple attacks, no matter what class you are. 4E has Basic Attack as one standard action (once per round) and 5E is the same (with abilities that grant you extra attacks). In this regard, the PF2 Monk can use a full round to make flurry of blows (1 action, two attacks, using the iterative multi-attack) with three actions and effectively make 6 attacks at +0/-5/-10/-10/-10/-10 (or +0/-4/-8/-8/-8/-8 with agile weapons). Power attacks are two actions, so the fighter could make a power attack at their full bonus and make a regular attack at -5 after it with the last action. It's a way of balancing out more attacks that 4E/5E with 4E/5E setting it up that you get less attacks, but without reducing the attack bonus.
In my experience, even 3.5/PF1 iterative attack penalties at -5/-10,etc they're quite likely to never make contact. What's the point of rolling 6 attacks when you know there's a 20% or less chance of making half of them connect? Not to mention the additional math involved, which requires either single-die rolling or color-coded die so you know which roll goes with which modifier. I find it clunky [*shruggs*].
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Now, I don't like ragging on any edition or game. These are just some hangup I've had when reading the system. There's a lot of things I read that I liked (spells get stronger depending upon the time spent casting), Rogue and Monks look solid, Fighters don't look like boring feats coupled together in a class. If someone asked me to play, I'm grabbing my dice!
Also with spells, you can learn the one spell and heighten it to make it more effective. You learn fireball at level 3 and it does 6d6, but if you prepare/cast it at level 9, it adds +2d6 for each heightened level, or 18d6. Likewise, the Spell Attack and Spell DC go up, and they are linked (casting a spell that attack someone could be +12, and your DCs for other spells are that plus ten (DC 22). Cantrips auto-heightened based on character level, so Acid Splash is at-will and previously you'd forget about it until you were out of other spells, but in PF2, when you're low-level, it does 1d6 damage, but at 20th level, it does 4d6 + spellcasting modifier, making worth using. And I do like the action use on spells, with every component taking one of your actions, and some spells allowing you to take more actions (like you said) to make it more powerful - cure being the prime example, with a single action making it a touch spell, two actions making it a ranged touch, and three actions making it an emanation/burst.
I think the last few editions saw that Caster without any magic is kinda boring. 4e's at-will scale, 5e's cantrips scale as does PF2's.
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
As for the world, I'm glad they're taking the appropriate steps to fix issues within the industry. Inclusiveness, diversity, and axing bad stereotypes is absolutely a great start and I hope they keep more of that going.
Heartily agree, there aren't any inherently evil "races", with the exception of the planar beings like Devils and Demons. And I've seen many examples of inclusiveness throughout the setting books coming out.
Agreed. Then again, Paizo has sort of been the leader on this front for quite some time. |
Edited by - Diffan on 30 Mar 2021 19:31:41 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2021 : 20:47:40
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| Retraining in PF2 is way less restrictive. Now it's just setting aside downtime and you can retrain feats, skills, and class features (like Divine Ally... although the suggestion for class features is a month of downtime, decided by the GM, of course). |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2021 : 20:52:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Wendolyn
I haven't played, but it sounds interesting from what's said above. Glad they have a strong area based on West Africa. I looked into the Heritage and Ancestry elements but was a little disappointed. My hopes were high. I thought it would be something like the Ancesty & Culture supplement,
https://www.dmsguild.com/product/314622/Ancestry--Culture-An-Alternative-to-Race-in-5e
But it seems like heritages are just subsets of ancestries, and don't facilitate things like an orc being raised by elves and thus speaking elvish and knowing how to use a longsword. But possibly I'm wrong! Seems like a cool system regardless.
I'm hoping that there may be some expansion that allows this later on, but right now it'd be a house rule. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2021 : 21:35:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Wendolyn
I haven't played, but it sounds interesting from what's said above. Glad they have a strong area based on West Africa. I looked into the Heritage and Ancestry elements but was a little disappointed. My hopes were high. I thought it would be something like the Ancesty & Culture supplement,
https://www.dmsguild.com/product/314622/Ancestry--Culture-An-Alternative-to-Race-in-5e
But it seems like heritages are just subsets of ancestries, and don't facilitate things like an orc being raised by elves and thus speaking elvish and knowing how to use a longsword. But possibly I'm wrong! Seems like a cool system regardless.
Adopted Ancestry is a level 1 feat from the core rulebook that kinda does this. |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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deserk
Learned Scribe
Norway
238 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2021 : 23:29:47
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I've always quite liked Pathfinder since it first came out and there are a lot of aspects it's setting I like. But I do have problems with it as well since Golarion is much more of a kitchen sink setting than Forgotten Realms, and there are some jarring design choices they've made (like Numeria, basically a Sci-fi technology in a Fantasy setting is one of the worst offenders in my mind). There are a lot country concepts that feel like they've been artificial placed in there as opposed to whether they make sense being there.
One of the things I really like about Faerun is that it has such a deep, organic and rich history which almost gives you the illusion of the Realms being a living and breathing world, and to me, it feels like every place makes sense being the way they are, and being placed where they are, especially those lands that have been heavily designed by Ed.
I do though really appreciate Paizo's fresh approach and perspective when it comes to fantasy tropes and designs, and taking the initiative at trying the unconventional. And in PF2 at least, they've made some attempts at humanizing the various non-human races, which I would love to see much more of the in Forgotten Realms. Non-humans shouldn't just exist to be monsters and bad guys.
And I do really appreciate Paizo's attempt at representing non-European cultures. They did a great job at designing places like Tian-Xia (which is the Asian-equivalent continent of the world), which I find in many ways more interesting than the Inner Sea of Golarion, since it feels like a consistent and cohesive setting. I think actually my favourite continent is the Crown of the World, which is the arctic setting. In my FR adventures I often replace the Great Glacier with Crown of the World and Kara-Tur with Tian-Xia, because they are so much better designed places, and feel like interesting fantasy settings.
I also don't see any particular problems with the concept of Chult itself, I think it has some good concepts as is, the only problem is that it has rarely been explored much in FR publication, but a lot of places outside of the Western Heartlands, Waterdeep and the North haven't been explored much. I actually think Chult has the potential to be a truly great, wondrous and iconic Realmsian land within the world of FR, just like Thay and Rashemen is. It is unique already in that it is one of the few lands in Faerun with their own distinct deity; that being the mysterious Ubtao. The only thing I would like to see is a bit more civilizational structure to the land here and there, more prominent city-states and settlements other than just Mezro and Port Nyanzaru, but still retain a large frontier land that would make the setting ripe for adventure. Mezro should be the theocratic heart of Chult in my mind, but it would be nice to have more mercantile and earthly-minded states too, as well as pirate ports (Chult would make a great place for pirates to hide in). You'd think there would be a lot more settlements and ports around the coast of Chult giving that it's waters connect the wealthy nations of the Shining Sea to nations of the Great Sea, and also because Chult is evidently quite abundant with natural resources. It would also be cool to know if remnants of the Eshowe still exist somewhere. |
Edited by - deserk on 30 Mar 2021 23:42:01 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2021 : 00:54:26
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quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
quote:
Originally posted by Wendolyn
I haven't played, but it sounds interesting from what's said above. Glad they have a strong area based on West Africa. I looked into the Heritage and Ancestry elements but was a little disappointed. My hopes were high. I thought it would be something like the Ancesty & Culture supplement,
https://www.dmsguild.com/product/314622/Ancestry--Culture-An-Alternative-to-Race-in-5e
But it seems like heritages are just subsets of ancestries, and don't facilitate things like an orc being raised by elves and thus speaking elvish and knowing how to use a longsword. But possibly I'm wrong! Seems like a cool system regardless.
Adopted Ancestry is a level 1 feat from the core rulebook that kinda does this.
Totally forgot about that one! Thanks! |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2021 : 02:10:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
quote:
Originally posted by Wendolyn
I haven't played, but it sounds interesting from what's said above. Glad they have a strong area based on West Africa. I looked into the Heritage and Ancestry elements but was a little disappointed. My hopes were high. I thought it would be something like the Ancesty & Culture supplement,
https://www.dmsguild.com/product/314622/Ancestry--Culture-An-Alternative-to-Race-in-5e
But it seems like heritages are just subsets of ancestries, and don't facilitate things like an orc being raised by elves and thus speaking elvish and knowing how to use a longsword. But possibly I'm wrong! Seems like a cool system regardless.
Adopted Ancestry is a level 1 feat from the core rulebook that kinda does this.
Totally forgot about that one! Thanks!
For a brief moment at launch, optimizers flocked to having their characters being adopted by gnomes, because it gave access to proficiency with a pretty good weapon down the line. I have to wonder if any of them ever actually roleplayed that... |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2021 : 02:47:43
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quote:
Originally posted by deserk
I've always quite liked Pathfinder since it first came out and there are a lot of aspects it's setting I like. But I do have problems with it as well since Golarion is much more of a kitchen sink setting than Forgotten Realms, and there are some jarring design choices they've made (like Numeria, basically a Sci-fi technology in a Fantasy setting is one of the worst offenders in my mind). There are a lot country concepts that feel like they've been artificial placed in there as opposed to whether they make sense being there.[/br]
A part of me appreciates that the Pathfinder setting is a maximalist gonzo kitchen sink. It strains credulity and coherency at times, but it’s not trying to be a believable world, it’s trying to be a stage for whatever kind of game you might want to run, and that’s led to some fun stuff. Numeria (where an alien starship crashed in the distant past, leading to the nomadic clans native to the region uneasily coexisting with feral robots and newborn androids) is actually the only place in their Europe-equivalent part of the setting I actually give a hoot about; I’m giddy to have Androids playable in 2e again, and the android who the party helps elevate to godhood in a 1e adventure path is canon in 2e.
This is to say nothing of how much I love the book detailing the other planets in their main solar system (and the next campaign, the one about teachers at a magic school in their Africa-equivalent taking a trip to Fantasy Mars), or how much some people love the module where you visit WW1-era Russia... |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2021 : 03:21:06
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quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
quote:
Originally posted by deserk
I've always quite liked Pathfinder since it first came out and there are a lot of aspects it's setting I like. But I do have problems with it as well since Golarion is much more of a kitchen sink setting than Forgotten Realms, and there are some jarring design choices they've made (like Numeria, basically a Sci-fi technology in a Fantasy setting is one of the worst offenders in my mind). There are a lot country concepts that feel like they've been artificial placed in there as opposed to whether they make sense being there.[/br]
A part of me appreciates that the Pathfinder setting is a maximalist gonzo kitchen sink. It strains credulity and coherency at times, but it’s not trying to be a believable world, it’s trying to be a stage for whatever kind of game you might want to run, and that’s led to some fun stuff. Numeria (where an alien starship crashed in the distant past, leading to the nomadic clans native to the region uneasily coexisting with feral robots and newborn androids) is actually the only place in their Europe-equivalent part of the setting I actually give a hoot about; I’m giddy to have Androids playable in 2e again, and the android who the party helps elevate to godhood in a 1e adventure path is canon in 2e.
This is to say nothing of how much I love the book detailing the other planets in their main solar system (and the next campaign, the one about teachers at a magic school in their Africa-equivalent taking a trip to Fantasy Mars), or how much some people love the module where you visit WW1-era Russia...
+1!
Instead of creating a world to support novels and NPCs, they created a sandbox where players could find something they liked. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2476 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2021 : 23:16:01
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Numeria is a site where an alien starship crashed and now they have advanced tech? Well, they just copy pasted Blackmoor there.
I'm not being a fan of Pathfinder since its first edition ruined one of my first campaigns as a DM. It was a 4e one, in the middle of the edition wars, so you can imagine. I've been shunning Pathfinder ever since, just becase the anti-4e camp like it. So, I've been shunning PF2 as well. It's really worth my time as a guy who prefers the 4e approach? |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 02 Apr 2021 23:17:33 |
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2021 : 23:51:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
Numeria is a site where an alien starship crashed and now they have advanced tech? Well, they just copy pasted Blackmoor there.
I'm not being a fan of Pathfinder since its first edition ruined one of my first campaigns as a DM. It was a 4e one, in the middle of the edition wars, so you can imagine. I've been shunning Pathfinder ever since, just becase the anti-4e camp like it. So, I've been shunning PF2 as well. It's really worth my time as a guy who prefers the 4e approach?
PF2 has been borrowing a fair amount of ideas from 4e (Rituals came over pretty much completely intact, and abilities sure are formatted a lot like Powers), and the new edition has also brought with it a very explicit push to get away from colonial mindsets and the assorted gross baggage of D&D stuff. The lore stuff is worth a read, even if you don’t touch the rules - but I think the rules are solid, and a lot more elegant than 1e (though still exponentially more crunchy than the stuff my indie storygame-obsessed self plays). |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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Renin
Learned Scribe
USA
290 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2021 : 05:46:19
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I run a PF2e campaign by post, that I have set in Waterdeep. 3 actions makes it very easy to for people to set their rounds up.
I quite enjoy that enemy creatures are designed in a manner the just make them dangerous, and are not something that has to follow core rulebook creation. Reminds me of AD&D.
I like the system. |
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2021 : 05:16:09
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For any fans of extra weird stuff: they recently revealed one of the new ancestries that's going to be playable in the upcoming Mwangi Expanse setting book, and they're super strange. They're shards of aeons (planar outsiders of Law, in the same way that fiends embody Evil and celestials embody Good) who live in exoskeletons of living wood, whose limbs slowly harden into branches, prompting the growth of new arms.
They look like this: https://i.redd.it/d9pk3y2151v61.png |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4441 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2021 : 15:31:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
It's really worth my time as a guy who prefers the 4e approach?
If you're investing in a different system than 4E, I'd give both Pathfinder 2 and 13th Age a look. Both, I feel, draw on 4E in some regards yet 13A has more 4E-isms with less mechanical crunch than PF2 offers. If having a LOT of options and feats and skills etc is your thing, then definitely check out PF2.
Or we can collaborate and make our OWN successor to 4th Edition that "fixes" some of the base issues, both mechanically and thematically! |
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Eldacar
Senior Scribe
438 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2021 : 15:48:33
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I played Pathfinder (1e) for a while, but ultimately fell away from it somewhere around the Mythic ruleset release and then later their Occult/Psionics playtest, mainly because of how terrible their mechanics development was in both cases and growing - later immense - frustration with Paizo among a chunk of their userbase about it. To this day Mythic is an immense disappointment to me, as was the campaign based around it.
Of course, then there was my collapse from fantasy RPGs in general for a while, helped by life getting in the way. What gaming I did do was either superhero (Mutants and Masterminds) or cyberpunk (Shadowrun) until I was slowly drawn back into fantasy settings.
I haven't looked at Paizo's PF2E system, but I'm more or less comfortable with the 5e D&D anyway. Nobody I game with is interested in it either. |
"The Wild Mages I have met exhibit a startling disregard for common sense, and are often meddling with powers far beyond their own control." ~Volo
"Not unlike a certain travelogue author with whom I am unfortunately acquainted." ~Elminster |
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2021 : 05:04:00
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| Worth noting here: by the end of the year, 2e will have Magus (a dedicated gish class), Summoner, Gunslinger, and Inventor are all going to be out by the year’s end, and next year has a book that apparently adds playable undead. |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2021 : 05:53:26
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quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
Worth noting here: by the end of the year, 2e will have Magus (a dedicated gish class), Summoner, Gunslinger, and Inventor are all going to be out by the year’s end, and next year has a book that apparently adds playable undead.
I have to admit: I do not know what "gish" means. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2021 : 06:48:36
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I saw it during its play test and did not like it
read through the rule book and imo it read the same way the 4e fr campaign setting did as a travel brochure
read the character book and thought it was good, still didnt like the rules though.
went looking for The Dark Eye books and found em so now I'm looking to get the monte cook books from his company's game...
As to the word Gish, don't know either... unless it's slang for sword mage or something. |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2021 : 09:01:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
Worth noting here: by the end of the year, 2e will have Magus (a dedicated gish class), Summoner, Gunslinger, and Inventor are all going to be out by the year’s end, and next year has a book that apparently adds playable undead.
I have to admit: I do not know what "gish" means.
A martial/caster, like a bladesinger or swordmage. |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2021 : 09:53:27
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quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
I saw it during its play test and did not like it
read through the rule book and imo it read the same way the 4e fr campaign setting did as a travel brochure
read the character book and thought it was good, still didnt like the rules though.
For what it’s worth, the setting material is pretty great, and most of the Lost Omens line are primarily lore with minimal mechanics - worth a peek, IMO!
quote:
went looking for The Dark Eye books and found em so now I'm looking to get the monte cook books from his company's game....
You’re welcome to start a separate thread about that  |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2021 : 15:19:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
Worth noting here: by the end of the year, 2e will have Magus (a dedicated gish class), Summoner, Gunslinger, and Inventor are all going to be out by the year’s end, and next year has a book that apparently adds playable undead.
I have to admit: I do not know what "gish" means.
Its a mix of warrior and spellcaster (spellsword, eldritch knight, etc...). The original term came from the Githyanki I believe, as this was a title in their culture.
I did originally pick up the PF 2e ruleset, and I will give them props for making a much more detailed ruleset than D&D 5e. You pretty much are going to need a program to help you keep your character correct as you level (making it initially is one thing, but as individual leveling up happens, it will become hard to keep track). To note, it got that way in 3.5e as well, so that's not necessarily a complaint in my book. The one thing I will say though against it is that they kept the 20 point of advancement on base attack bonus and similar on saves thus many other things at high level play will just spin way out of control. In comparison to 5e, I think they curtailed it too far (going from +2 to +6 isn't a whole lot of difference). I think if they ever put out a happy medium between these two, they'll have a really good design. To note, my worry on this is on mechanics and not necessarily "lore"..... as my feel is that any world can with modifications be made to fit most rulesets. I've barely looked over the PF2e worldbook, though I did buy it on the off chance I'd be interested in the game itself. I wouldn't mind trying it out, but that's looking less likely as work consumes my life more these days. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 30 May 2021 15:28:51 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2021 : 15:31:55
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quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
now I'm looking to get the monte cook books from his company's game...
He's got a lot of them, mostly built on the Cypher System, but there's a new one he recently came out with that I believe uses some new system.
I've played a couple games of The Strange, at GenCon, and one of Predation. Couldn't get into any Numenara sessions, though -- those sold out fast.
I've got a fair amount of the books he's put out for The Strange and Numenara. The Strange is, I think, a particularly interesting setting, and I like the way characters translate for other recursions. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
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Adhriva
Learned Scribe
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2021 : 01:19:39
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| I've really been enjoying the system. The gameplay feels and flows much more like a Realms novel that I have fallen in love with the system. It's been really nice to run too because there isn't as much of a burden on the DM to brew up an answer on the spot. I'm currently playing an Elven Bladesinger of the Leopard School (Wizard with some melee archetypes, but will transfer/retrain to Magus w/ archetype wizard when it comes out) and it already feels like your traditional Elven Bladesinger. It's amazing. I personally love the system. |
Professional illustrator and comic book artist.
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Has anyone been keeping up with Pathfinder 2e?
