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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11809 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Feb 2021 : 18:37:37
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Fair warning: I'm posting some direct quotes from rime of the frostmaiden below. If you are a player and haven't read it, proceed to further.
Well, I'm a slow reader at times and I tend to go back and forth sometimes. I know people were talking about the obelisk mentioned in rime of the frostmaiden and its hints to an idea of changing your entire campaign by going back to the time of Netheril. To me, that's all well and good, but there's very little history specific to that time period such that you wouldn't be fleshing out the whole world, so you'd in essence be creating mostly your own campaign. It could be fun, but its a hefty chunk of work.
That all being said, I had heard the thoughts here and started thinking about it THEN I read what was written myself more closely this morning, and I started thinking "how can we adjust this to work for us in a way that ISN'T a lot of work?". So, I figured I'd open up some possibilities, and maybe get some ideas in feedback.
Let's start off with "what is exactly written" about the secret of the obelisks and I'll bold some sentences.
Secret of the Obelisks
In this adventure, we learn the secret of the obelisks that have appeared in other fifth edition adventures published by Wizards of the Coast, including Tomb of Annihilation and Waterdeep: Dungeon of the Mad Mage.
The first group of these magical obelisks was crafted by a secret society of spellcasters called the Weavers. The obelisks could alter reality on a grand scale, sending a region or an entire world back to an earlier time (effectively erasing a part of history). The obelisks were constructed to counteract the effects of calamitous spells and cataclysmic events.
An evil wizard named Vecna stole one such obelisk and used it to erase the obelisk's creators from existence. Vecna also stole the knowledge needed to create new ones. That knowledge later came into the possession of Netherese wizards, who built similar obelisks of their own. They believed that if some catastrophe destroyed their empire, these obelisks could help restore it. Unfortunately for them, most of the obelisks built to protect Netheril were stolen or otherwise lost over time, as were records of their purpose and information about how to activate them.
So, with this concept, it clearly can be seen as "you can bring a region or world back in time and change it". However, another reading of it might be that you can bring a previous era FORWARD in time and overwrite (or drop over) what's there. In many ways, this could KIND OF sound like what happened with the spellplague down in the old empires area where there's portions of one world alongside another.
So, again, how can we use this in a way that we feel enhances the campaign for both old grognards AND possibly 4e lovers AND fans of the 5e concept of mixing both?
I see several spots where this can really work well
First, Halruaa, Nimbral, Lantan and the Chult Peninsula areas that "disappeared" and had really nothing (or next to nothing) written about them can be literally brought back using the lore from just prior to the spellplague. The same people in charge and everything. In essence, for them perhaps time stood still and now they have to catch up. Given the nearness to the obelisk in Chult that could make for a decent plot line (and perhaps involves the return of Mezro as well).
This use I don't think many would complain about (could be wrong), and it makes for immediate use of prior material except for rule changes.
The second idea is a little more messy, but given that a lot of areas were changed significantly, the idea would be to give a way to quickly create a conflict between the group "that was there" and the group "that is there now".
So, for instance, we have down in Dambrath now a Patriarchal group of brutish barbarian humans who worship Malar and spread the lyncanthropic curse. We previously had a Matriarchal group of half-elves (crintri) with drow and elven blood who ruled over a prior version of those humans and worshipped Loviatar. Neither side is particularly a shining beacon of good. If a "portion" of the land suddenly had an influx of the crintri and their loyalists, you could have the country in a civil war with itself that could prove fun for adventures.
Similarly, you might bring back the Myrkul "Knights of the Undying Dragon" that would attack the Everlasting Wyrm every hundred years (and maybe the Everlasting Wyrm's lair actually held one of these obelisks) as they existed prior to the spellplague.
Similarly, you might bring back the cities of western Chessenta that had disappeared (Cimbar, Soorenar, and Akanax) and have them at odds with the current rulership of Chessenta and amongst each other.
This concept of bringing back an earlier time storyline fits particularly well for what we've heard of Mulhorand, as we have basically what appear to be God-Kings returning but they appear to be like they were pre the orcgate wars. So, Re is around, Set isn't an outcast, in theory Osiris didn't die. You could also have their manifestations around as well. This is less of a "ready made replacement" where you use the previous materials as written, but it seems to fit the concept where the citizens of High Imaskar were still there and these Mulhorandi showed up. We also have ready made a powerful mage that might have been interested in this with Nezram the World Walker.
You could obviously do similar with any other lost empire, but it becomes a decent amount of more work (i.e. Narfell, Raumathar, Imaskar, etc...). I'm not sure it would be all that special either.
The idea that's nearest and dearest to my heart in this particular scenario is the concept of using my United Tharchs of Toril idea but using it in a twisted way. I already have it that returning from Abeir are several Zulkirs who actually survived (Mythrell'aa, Lauzoril's clone awakened by Velsharoon on Abeir, Yaphyll), and I was even doing the idea that neither the Toril version of Lauzoril or Lallara Mediocros had died in facing off against Tam in his demiplane... but they got trapped in there and were released by the spellplague. So, there exist two Lauzorils now, and they've jointly agreed to not attack one another and to work against Tam... only the Toril version of Lauzoril is less mellowed out and more cutthroat. He might actually "pull forward" a version of Thay PRIOR to Larloch inflicting the curse of Death Moon Orb upon him which would "drive him to greater and greater acts of evil". This would set this PRIOR to Eltab being released, prior to the civil war, and I believe we'd have all the same Zulkirs as in 3e. The land would also get renewed, such that the ritual that Tam tried wouldn't leave behind a husk of a country.
This last concept with Thay could prove very interesting in my homebrew in that I'd now have duplicates of not just a single Zulkir, but actually multiples... and while I saw Lauzoril as being willing to work with "himself", some of the others might not. It would also bring back an uncorrupted version of Szass Tam who still seems to want to have a united Thay to possibly face off against the demented version who burned the country down. Granted this concept is a little like the "many Manshoons" concept, but it could work for creating a Thay in revolt concept, which is something I think they had been working towards. Again, like the spellplague, you don't need to overwrite the WHOLE country, but you could select and choose which areas are overwritten. For instance, want Eltab still free? He still is. Its just the "returned" Tam never freed him and the city of Eltabbar may still be intact and holding nothing in place with its spell, with Dmitra Flass still as the tharchion and still holding an interest in Mulmaster. Druxus Rhym would still be the zulkir of transmutation, and Samas Kul would just be head of the guild of foreign trade.
Another way this could prove interesting in my homebrew would be that there are Zulkirs in the United tharchs that were born on Abeir in the past century, and I can see them not being interested in Thay at all... but the "returned" Zulkirs of Thay may not feel the same in return. So, "Thay" become conflicted on 2 fronts. First they want to reclaim their homeland from insane Tam. Second, they find out that their descendants have small populations in the Shaar and throughout other continents (and worse many haven't chosen to remain pure Mulan). The United Tharchs may be spread all over, but they don't have near the population of their old homeland (which the 3e campaign setting put at 4 million).
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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TKU
Learned Scribe
USA
158 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2021 : 19:57:06
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The potential uses for these obelisks are certainly interesting and varied. There are an awwful lot of places in the realms that I wouldn't mind see 'rewind' to a previous state (like the aforementioned Dambrath), though things could get very weird and confusing quickly-as they tend to when timetravel is involved.
I think these obelisks ultimately aren't going to be there for hooks for DMs and players to explore parts of Faerun's past though-at least not in a freeform sort of manner. They have been cropping up for a few years now IIRC. I think these are leading up to the next big shakeup of the setting, probably through some upcoming published adventure. I wouldn't be surprised if such an adventure led players through a succession of setpieces from iconic or storied segments of the Realm's past, but I don't see them becoming a supported fixture of the setting to facilitate a degree 'modularity' in the setting that allows DMs to pick and choose what setting/story elements from previous additions they want to build into 'their' version of the realms. I just don't see WoTC changing course suddenly and putting out materials to run campaigns in these different time periods and fallen empires like Netheril.
I think there are plenty of hints on the horizon that Wizards is going to do another big event of some sort to reshuffle the realms-we have another big ticket video game coming out in the next year attached to the prestigous 'Baldur's Gate' name, as well as an upcoming set from Magic the Gathering (and those almost always have some sort of big epic/apocalyptic storyline). From what I have read here on Candlekeep, it sounds like RA Salvatore is even committing to some major setting upheavals in regards to the Drow and Menzoberranzean. And I think he usually puts out a book a year, so we likely have some major changes coming in that department soon as well. Then there's all the concern over depictions of culture and ethnicity that has been big in the public eye recently, specifically in regards to Orcs and Drow, which WoTC has said they will address. I have heard people speculating about a potential '5.5e' or 6th edition, and while I wouldn't say that's a given, the wind does seem to be blowing towards some rather drastic changes coming to Faerun in the next year or so, IMO. So while it could be interesting to learn more about these Obelisks and how they could be a useful tool for DMs, I wonder if we won't be seeing them as a catalyst for the next major iteration of the setting in the relatively near future, rather than as a tool for DMs.
It is interesting to ponder the many 'what if, instead...?'s of FR history though, there are so many things that could be turned on their heads with a little upset here or there in the timeline. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2021 : 20:05:53
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You could also say that places like Halruaa and Lantan snagged these obelisks and used them to "skip ahead" to the present time.
But another thought... What if the Spellplague had nothing to do with Cyric stabbing Mystra? What if the whole rot about twinned worlds converging was just PR?
See, maybe Abeir and Toril were always entirely separate worlds. Some Abeirrans came through and grabbed a couple of the obelisks, and -- because of some catastrophe facing Abeir -- tried to write chunks of their world onto Toril. Mystra -- and maybe some other powers -- realized what was happening, and tried to stop it. Mystra nearly died in the process, but she and the others managed to stop what was happening before it got too far. And it took her and the others some time to regain enough power to undo it.
I'm not saying any of this is canon or even implied, it's just a thought exercise. And it would be a retcon of a retcon, but since the first retcon was so problematic, I'm willing to relax a bit on my anti-retcon stance, for this specific case. |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2021 : 20:17:34
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| This is WOTC. Think money. If you have items that let a DM pull an area back to a previous state, that would be an excellent reason for them to take everything previously published and re-publish an updated version with 5e stats for everything AND a section on how it could be tied into the present day. Think of the goldmine the 2e/3e stuff would represent. |
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My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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TKU
Learned Scribe
USA
158 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2021 : 20:41:15
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quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
This is WOTC. Think money. If you have items that let a DM pull an area back to a previous state, that would be an excellent reason for them to take everything previously published and re-publish an updated version with 5e stats for everything AND a section on how it could be tied into the present day. Think of the goldmine the 2e/3e stuff would represent.
No doubt, $ is their chief concern, but I think one of the big barriers to them contemplating something like this would be that it would be perceived as 'competing' with the main setting, in much the same way they won't be putting out any new content using the 3rd or 2nd edition rulesets, I don't see a return to publishing new setting material for those editions. A lot of stuff for those editions already got left on the cutting room floor or was never developed, I just don't see this sort of parallel development of edition content happening now with the added concern of competition with the current setting/ruleset they are promoting.
I think there might be a chance for whatever setting changes they make to include a sort of 'all stars' of popular stuff transported from the past and incorporated into the 'modern' realms though, 5e already has some veins of that sort of philosophy going through it.
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Edited by - TKU on 02 Feb 2021 20:42:01 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11809 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2021 : 21:29:44
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Just another piece to throw into this regarding the obelisks themselves. They're some kind of crystal "things", but where did they come from? Are they mined off a primordial much like Felliron is mined off of Telos. There's also the primdordial Timesus "the black star" primordial who was also being mined back in 4e and which had ties to the formation of the Abyss. By the way, I couldn't help but grin when I saw that the "Council of the Ebon Star" was what helped rule the enclave in rime... yet another black star reference.....
From 4e Death's Reach page 18
The primordial Timesus, the Black Star, has been represented in myth and legend as an avenging meteorite that smote foes by smashing down from the sky like a hammer of black stone. In truth, the flaming black rock that walked like a man could launch itself great distances to make devastating attacks. In some of its battles against the gods, fragments of Timesus's primordial form splintered and manifested into terrible creatures that became known as the blackstar host. The Host followed Timesus as faithful warriors, and those not destroyed in the Dawn War were imprisoned along with the Black Star.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11809 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2021 : 21:41:16
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quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
This is WOTC. Think money. If you have items that let a DM pull an area back to a previous state, that would be an excellent reason for them to take everything previously published and re-publish an updated version with 5e stats for everything AND a section on how it could be tied into the present day. Think of the goldmine the 2e/3e stuff would represent.
Yep, this is exactly why I mentioned this concept. Taking the Dambrath thing as an example, it wouldn't take much to read the 2e and 3.5e shining south and import a bunch of NPC's, literally copy and paste then edit something on the culture of the crintri, then setup some encounters showing the two groups being at odds. Then they could setup some "rogue" crintri worshipping like Lurue or Nobanion or some such who "need the party's help".
Having all of this occurring as some sort of continuation of the second sundering and linking the "second sundering" to these obelisks being used could also be a decent storyline. Maybe that's why things have been happening in delayed effect around the world, because SOMEONE has been going around using obelisks to "right the world". So, one month Halruaa's back... a few months later, there's Nimbral returning, etc... It might even be different teams working on this (for instance Nezram "resets" Mulhorand, but could care less about Halruaa).
Maybe the spellweavers come back....
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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PattPlays
Senior Scribe
469 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2021 : 02:43:42
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| Wait a second, there's an obelisk in Out of the abyss!! Did they forget about that? (Whorlstone Caverns under Gracklstugh) |
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PattPlays
Senior Scribe
469 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2021 : 02:46:23
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Also, Halrua has returned since the start of 5e as the SCAG says "halruan skyships have once again been spotted in the south".
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
You could also say that places like Halruaa and Lantan snagged these obelisks and used them to "skip ahead" to the present time.
But another thought... What if the Spellplague had nothing to do with Cyric stabbing Mystra? What if the whole rot about twinned worlds converging was just PR?
See, maybe Abeir and Toril were always entirely separate worlds. Some Abeirrans came through and grabbed a couple of the obelisks, and -- because of some catastrophe facing Abeir -- tried to write chunks of their world onto Toril. Mystra -- and maybe some other powers -- realized what was happening, and tried to stop it. Mystra nearly died in the process, but she and the others managed to stop what was happening before it got too far. And it took her and the others some time to regain enough power to undo it.
I'm not saying any of this is canon or even implied, it's just a thought exercise. And it would be a retcon of a retcon, but since the first retcon was so problematic, I'm willing to relax a bit on my anti-retcon stance, for this specific case.
This is neat though, but the canon story for Halrua and other places was that they went to Abeir and came back with the sundering of the twin worlds in the 1480's, right? |
:The world's greatest OOTA fan/critic: :"Powder kegs within powder kegs!": :Meta-Dimensional Cheese: :Why is the Wand of Orcus just back?: :We still don't know the nature of Souls and the Positive Energy Plane: :PC on profile, Aldritch Elpyptrat Maxinfield: :Helljumpers, Bungie.net: :Rock Hard Gladiator, RIP Fluidanim, Long Live Pluto: :IRC lives:
https://thisisstorytelling.wordpress.com
T_P_T |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1624 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2021 : 04:15:11
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Fair warning: I'm posting some direct quotes from rime of the frostmaiden below. If you are a player and haven't read it, proceed to further.
Well, I'm a slow reader at times and I tend to go back and forth sometimes. I know people were talking about the obelisk mentioned in rime of the frostmaiden and its hints to an idea of changing your entire campaign by going back to the time of Netheril. To me, that's all well and good, but there's very little history specific to that time period such that you wouldn't be fleshing out the whole world, so you'd in essence be creating mostly your own campaign. It could be fun, but its a hefty chunk of work.
That all being said, I had heard the thoughts here and started thinking about it THEN I read what was written myself more closely this morning, and I started thinking "how can we adjust this to work for us in a way that ISN'T a lot of work?". So, I figured I'd open up some possibilities, and maybe get some ideas in feedback.
Let's start off with "what is exactly written" about the secret of the obelisks and I'll bold some sentences.
Secret of the Obelisks
In this adventure, we learn the secret of the obelisks that have appeared in other fifth edition adventures published by Wizards of the Coast, including Tomb of Annihilation and Waterdeep: Dungeon of the Mad Mage.
The first group of these magical obelisks was crafted by a secret society of spellcasters called the Weavers. The obelisks could alter reality on a grand scale, sending a region or an entire world back to an earlier time (effectively erasing a part of history). The obelisks were constructed to counteract the effects of calamitous spells and cataclysmic events.
An evil wizard named Vecna stole one such obelisk and used it to erase the obelisk's creators from existence. Vecna also stole the knowledge needed to create new ones. That knowledge later came into the possession of Netherese wizards, who built similar obelisks of their own. They believed that if some catastrophe destroyed their empire, these obelisks could help restore it. Unfortunately for them, most of the obelisks built to protect Netheril were stolen or otherwise lost over time, as were records of their purpose and information about how to activate them.
So, with this concept, it clearly can be seen as "you can bring a region or world back in time and change it". However, another reading of it might be that you can bring a previous era FORWARD in time and overwrite (or drop over) what's there. In many ways, this could KIND OF sound like what happened with the spellplague down in the old empires area where there's portions of one world alongside another.
So, again, how can we use this in a way that we feel enhances the campaign for both old grognards AND possibly 4e lovers AND fans of the 5e concept of mixing both?
I see several spots where this can really work well
First, Halruaa, Nimbral, Lantan and the Chult Peninsula areas that "disappeared" and had really nothing (or next to nothing) written about them can be literally brought back using the lore from just prior to the spellplague. The same people in charge and everything. In essence, for them perhaps time stood still and now they have to catch up. Given the nearness to the obelisk in Chult that could make for a decent plot line (and perhaps involves the return of Mezro as well).
This use I don't think many would complain about (could be wrong), and it makes for immediate use of prior material except for rule changes.
The second idea is a little more messy, but given that a lot of areas were changed significantly, the idea would be to give a way to quickly create a conflict between the group "that was there" and the group "that is there now".
So, for instance, we have down in Dambrath now a Patriarchal group of brutish barbarian humans who worship Malar and spread the lyncanthropic curse. We previously had a Matriarchal group of half-elves (crintri) with drow and elven blood who ruled over a prior version of those humans and worshipped Loviatar. Neither side is particularly a shining beacon of good. If a "portion" of the land suddenly had an influx of the crintri and their loyalists, you could have the country in a civil war with itself that could prove fun for adventures.
Similarly, you might bring back the Myrkul "Knights of the Undying Dragon" that would attack the Everlasting Wyrm every hundred years (and maybe the Everlasting Wyrm's lair actually held one of these obelisks) as they existed prior to the spellplague.
Similarly, you might bring back the cities of western Chessenta that had disappeared (Cimbar, Soorenar, and Akanax) and have them at odds with the current rulership of Chessenta and amongst each other.
This concept of bringing back an earlier time storyline fits particularly well for what we've heard of Mulhorand, as we have basically what appear to be God-Kings returning but they appear to be like they were pre the orcgate wars. So, Re is around, Set isn't an outcast, in theory Osiris didn't die. You could also have their manifestations around as well. This is less of a "ready made replacement" where you use the previous materials as written, but it seems to fit the concept where the citizens of High Imaskar were still there and these Mulhorandi showed up. We also have ready made a powerful mage that might have been interested in this with Nezram the World Walker.
You could obviously do similar with any other lost empire, but it becomes a decent amount of more work (i.e. Narfell, Raumathar, Imaskar, etc...). I'm not sure it would be all that special either.
The idea that's nearest and dearest to my heart in this particular scenario is the concept of using my United Tharchs of Toril idea but using it in a twisted way. I already have it that returning from Abeir are several Zulkirs who actually survived (Mythrell'aa, Lauzoril's clone awakened by Velsharoon on Abeir, Yaphyll), and I was even doing the idea that neither the Toril version of Lauzoril or Lallara Mediocros had died in facing off against Tam in his demiplane... but they got trapped in there and were released by the spellplague. So, there exist two Lauzorils now, and they've jointly agreed to not attack one another and to work against Tam... only the Toril version of Lauzoril is less mellowed out and more cutthroat. He might actually "pull forward" a version of Thay PRIOR to Larloch inflicting the curse of Death Moon Orb upon him which would "drive him to greater and greater acts of evil". This would set this PRIOR to Eltab being released, prior to the civil war, and I believe we'd have all the same Zulkirs as in 3e. The land would also get renewed, such that the ritual that Tam tried wouldn't leave behind a husk of a country.
This last concept with Thay could prove very interesting in my homebrew in that I'd now have duplicates of not just a single Zulkir, but actually multiples... and while I saw Lauzoril as being willing to work with "himself", some of the others might not. It would also bring back an uncorrupted version of Szass Tam who still seems to want to have a united Thay to possibly face off against the demented version who burned the country down. Granted this concept is a little like the "many Manshoons" concept, but it could work for creating a Thay in revolt concept, which is something I think they had been working towards. Again, like the spellplague, you don't need to overwrite the WHOLE country, but you could select and choose which areas are overwritten. For instance, want Eltab still free? He still is. Its just the "returned" Tam never freed him and the city of Eltabbar may still be intact and holding nothing in place with its spell, with Dmitra Flass still as the tharchion and still holding an interest in Mulmaster. Druxus Rhym would still be the zulkir of transmutation, and Samas Kul would just be head of the guild of foreign trade.
Another way this could prove interesting in my homebrew would be that there are Zulkirs in the United tharchs that were born on Abeir in the past century, and I can see them not being interested in Thay at all... but the "returned" Zulkirs of Thay may not feel the same in return. So, "Thay" become conflicted on 2 fronts. First they want to reclaim their homeland from insane Tam. Second, they find out that their descendants have small populations in the Shaar and throughout other continents (and worse many haven't chosen to remain pure Mulan). The United Tharchs may be spread all over, but they don't have near the population of their old homeland (which the 3e campaign setting put at 4 million).
My theory is they plan to use the Obilesks to create a Temporal crisis simular to Time Spiral in the MtG multiverse, so they they cam bring back more beloved characters and elements to the setting without retconning the setting, so that they can use characters who would be dead in the current era in the MtG FR card set. |
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TKU
Learned Scribe
USA
158 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2021 : 04:36:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
My theory is they plan to use the Obilesks to create a Temporal crisis simular to Time Spiral in the MtG multiverse, so they they cam bring back more beloved characters and elements to the setting without retconning the setting, so that they can use characters who would be dead in the current era in the MtG FR card set.
This is pretty much exactly what I'm expecting as well. Bring back popular dead characters or organizations or whatever. (although I don't know if I would define that as not being a retcon)
I just don't see them starting a big endeavor to publish stuff to run campaigns in specific 'eras' (I mean, they never needed timetravel to do that).
. But using timetravel to mash together popular elements from FR's past? I can absolutely see that. And I as I mentioned before, I think there's too many hints of big changes on the horizon to discount some major setting changes in the near future. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11809 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2021 : 13:20:47
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quote:
Originally posted by PattPlays
Also, Halrua has returned since the start of 5e as the SCAG says "halruan skyships have once again been spotted in the south".
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
You could also say that places like Halruaa and Lantan snagged these obelisks and used them to "skip ahead" to the present time.
But another thought... What if the Spellplague had nothing to do with Cyric stabbing Mystra? What if the whole rot about twinned worlds converging was just PR?
See, maybe Abeir and Toril were always entirely separate worlds. Some Abeirrans came through and grabbed a couple of the obelisks, and -- because of some catastrophe facing Abeir -- tried to write chunks of their world onto Toril. Mystra -- and maybe some other powers -- realized what was happening, and tried to stop it. Mystra nearly died in the process, but she and the others managed to stop what was happening before it got too far. And it took her and the others some time to regain enough power to undo it.
I'm not saying any of this is canon or even implied, it's just a thought exercise. And it would be a retcon of a retcon, but since the first retcon was so problematic, I'm willing to relax a bit on my anti-retcon stance, for this specific case.
This is neat though, but the canon story for Halrua and other places was that they went to Abeir and came back with the sundering of the twin worlds in the 1480's, right?
That's the THEORY, but I don't believe anything has yet been confirmed as to WHERE they went and WHERE they came back from. Bear this in mind when thinking about it. Evermeet didn't go to Abeir. It went to the Feywild, and some non-magical "copy" of it was found just off the coast of Laerakond ... which was supposed to be down roughly around where Maztica had been (I stress roughly, because people didn't have GPS, and I don't know that they know exactly where it was). So, there is the option that some of these places went somewhere else and are coming back from there.
There's ALSO like I was saying with these obelisks, the option that people are simply transporting forward a copy of the past of portions of the realms maybe just prior to the spellplague. This option allows for all those NPC's that people may have liked in a region to be forward in time with little to no change, except that they need to be adjusted to the new rules. To note, this is KIND OF like the ideas that I've heard Ed was supposedly espousing that "one can simply use the same NPC's with the same name and assume its their grandchild"... except this is more literal.
For some folks this idea could be a blessing. I'm not sure if WotC would like or dislike the idea. The big thing I see is the concept of "doing it like the spellplague" so that you can have it be that the whole thing isn't copied over wholesale, but rather cities or even portions of cities might come over. It kind of marries the pre and post spellplague in a way that the second sundering was going to do, but you don't have to account for "well what happened over the hundred years that they were in Abeir".
Also, as an interesting aside to this concept, perhaps it creates portals between Abeir and Toril in these places, and on the Abeir side might be the 5 generations later descendants of the people that have just reappeared on Toril. THAT could get decidedly interesting, but then I may be just pushing the envelope too far with that concept. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3740 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2021 : 16:41:29
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| -WotC was dead-set against supporting two different product timelines back in 2008 (and rightly so, even though obviously what I liked was eliminated). Different place, different time, but with even fewer resources being allocated to their D&D stuff now as opposed to ten years ago plus, I can't see them time-hopping and supporting 1372+ Forgotten Realms. Maybe incorporating elements in adventures as mentioned via time travel, but anything more would seem unlikely to me. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerûn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerûn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2021 : 18:17:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-WotC was dead-set against supporting two different product timelines back in 2008 (and rightly so, even though obviously what I liked was eliminated). Different place, different time, but with even fewer resources being allocated to their D&D stuff now as opposed to ten years ago plus, I can't see them time-hopping and supporting 1372+ Forgotten Realms. Maybe incorporating elements in adventures as mentioned via time travel, but anything more would seem unlikely to me.
I concur. I think this is an excuse to import more things that don't belong in the setting.
I doubt they're going to worry about time travel, very much, unless it's a thing of "this NPC went back in time and did this, having this radical change on the present" -- and even that, I don't expect. They've barely paid any attention to canon up until now, so I don't see them worrying about excuses to break it. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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oden131
Acolyte
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2021 : 19:16:52
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| im not really disagreeing with you that that is what they might do, however at the end of rime it says you appear on the intact floating city 6 months before karsus folly in -343dr. personally i have been reading lore and trying to figure out how my wizard players will cast in the mystral weave and just what spells will transfer. i have some big dwarf fans in the group and i may let them try to let netheril fall and preserve the delzoun empire, i mean what could be easier than killing several million orcs :) |
no one expects the spanish inquisition |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
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oden131
Acolyte
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2021 : 20:50:20
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well the year is correct but i misread the paragraph
quote from the book spoiler alert from the epilog
"The obelisk has sent them back to the spring of #8722;343 DR, the Year of Chilled Marrow, six months prior to the catastrophe that causes Ythryn’s fall and another four years before Netheril’s demise. The characters find themselves high in the sky over Icewind Dale. Use the following boxed text to set the scene:" |
no one expects the spanish inquisition |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2021 : 21:07:00
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quote:
Originally posted by oden131
well the year is correct but i misread the paragraph
quote from the book spoiler alert from the epilog
"The obelisk has sent them back to the spring of #8722;343 DR, the Year of Chilled Marrow, six months prior to the catastrophe that causes Ythryn’s fall and another four years before Netheril’s demise. The characters find themselves high in the sky over Icewind Dale. Use the following boxed text to set the scene:"
Okay, glad to see the rest of that text.
I've not been in a hurry to obtain this book, myself, so I couldn't check it. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Using the Obelisk Mechanic found in Rime
