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"And naught will be left save shattered thrones, with no rulers but the dead. Dragons shall rule the world entire, and..."

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"And naught will be left save shattered thrones, with no rulers. But the dead dragons shall rule the world entire, and..."

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Origionally from Lords of Darkness p.18
In the pages of Maglas's Chronicle of the Years to Come Sammaster discovered a cryptic prophecy that he believed predicted that undead dragons would eventually rule the world. Thus inspired the irrational archmage gathered a band of followers and persuaded them that his fore telling of the future was accurate. In 902 DR the "Cult of the Dragon" created its first dracolich, using necromantic formulas that Sammaster inscribed in his magnum opus, Tome of the Dragon. Sammaster eventually died--or, as some Cult members believe, became a lich and disappeared. Today, the inheritors of his terrible knowledge continue to carry out his legacy.

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

And that was enough to set Sammy down the path of creating his first dracolich...

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Originally posted by George Krashos

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

And that was enough to set Sammy down the path of creating his first dracolich...

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Wooly Rupert is exactly right but I'd probably qualify the above statement by saying that Sammaster created the first Cult of the Dragon dracolich (Shargrailer in 902DR). The write-up of Myrkul in Faiths & Avatars seems to indicate that dracolichs have been around for a lot longer than 400 or so years and Steven Schend in his Fall of Myth Drannor product mentions a dracolich (The Exile's War, p.28) that obviously existed in 713-ishDR. So it would appear that the dracolich process existed prior to Sammaster and the Cult (maybe a secret ritual of Myrkul ...) but became much more widespread after his embracing of it. Just a thought.

-- George Krashos

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Originally posted by ericlboyd
Alaundo might have said that undead dragons would rule the world. That sort of suggests that such a concept already exists and that Sammaster simply read that and decided to accelerate their takeover.
--Eric

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Originally posted by Wood Elf Ranger

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Originally posted by ericlboyd
Alaundo might have said that undead dragons would rule the world. That sort of suggests that such a concept already exists and that Sammaster simply read that and decided to accelerate their takeover.
--Eric

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Alaundo?!! I refuse to believe our kindly headmaster had anything to do with undead dragons

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Originally posted by George Krashos

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

And that was enough to set Sammy down the path of creating his first dracolich...

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Wooly Rupert is exactly right but I'd probably qualify the above statement by saying that Sammaster created the first Cult of the Dragon dracolich (Shargrailer in 902DR). The write-up of Myrkul in Faiths & Avatars seems to indicate that dracolichs have been around for a lot longer than 400 or so years and Steven Schend in his Fall of Myth Drannor product mentions a dracolich (The Exile's War, p.28) that obviously existed in 713-ishDR. So it would appear that the dracolich process existed prior to Sammaster and the Cult (maybe a secret ritual of Myrkul ...) but became much more widespread after his embracing of it. Just a thought.

-- George Krashos

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Originally posted by chosenofvelsharoon

sammaster mistakenly translated "chronicle of years to come" by maglas. he wrote "and naught will be left, save shattered thrones with no rulers. But the dead dragons will rule the world entire, and ..." instead of "and nought will be left, save shattered throne with no rulers but the dead. Dragons will rule the world entire, ..."

this is in the ad&d supplement "cult of the dragon" by dale donovan (tsr9547)

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Originally posted by Senbar Flay

I have looked into the group known as the Cult of the Dragon and read they are actual fanatical followers of an old arccmages ideas about dragons and some such. Bu I haven't been able to find any info on what Sammaster actually predicts will come to pass. any ingo would be aprreciated

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• Empires of the Shining Sea (August, 1998)
• Calimport (October, 1998)
• The Grand History of the Realms (September, 2007)

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"Thus, history for the entire territory is broken down here by the dominant historical patterns established by Calimshan, which measure time in relation to the great Imperial Ages." (Empires of the Shining Sea, p5)

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"...all historical references are measured using Dalereckoning as a standard to facilitate cross-referencing times and events across the breadth of the Realms and between the past and present." (EotSS, p5-6)

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• Time of the Genies: Arrived in -7,800 DR (GHotR, p19)
• Calimport destroyed: -7,790 DR (Calimport, p13, GHotR, p19)
• Genie Wars:c. -5,960 DR (Calimport, p14)
• Eye Tyrant Wars: -170 DR (Calimport, p20)

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"The arcane prophets of Calimshan are known as the Abbalayar, of which more can be gleaned in the "Wild Calimshan" chapter of Section Two of this work. Of immediate historical import though, are the Phoenix Prophecies." (EotSS, p6)

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"When the djinn ruled the lands around the Marching Mountains, the Abbalayar were given sovereignty over Mount Abbalayat. With the fall of the djinn, the Abbalayar hid their home from the eyes of mortals, and only rarely have any recognized Abbalyar ventured from it since then.(EotSS, p85)

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"The greatest of Abbalayar seers is known only as the Nar'ysr, though to Northerners, he is far more famous as the Phoenix of Calimshan." (EotSS, p6)

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al- (Arabic: #1575;#1604;#8206;), also Romanized as el- as pronounced in varieties of Arabic, is the definite article in the Arabic language: a particle (#7717;arf) whose function is to render the noun on which it is prefixed definite. For example, the word #1603;#1578;#1575;#1576; kit#257;b "book" can be made definite by prefixing it with al-, resulting in #1575;#1604;#1603;#1578;#1575;#1576; al-kit#257;b "the book". Consequently, al- is typically translated as the in English

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What many students of the Phoenix Prophecies await are the culmination of the remaining Auguries, which are among the the most enigmatic prophecies ever seen. (EotSS, p7)

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"The Caleph Auguries are the most prominent and important prophecies made by the Nar'ysr, for they foretold (and continue to predict) the major schisms that established and later divided the so-called Empires of the Shining Sea. The Caleph Auguries roughly forecast the Nine Ages of Calimshan, and many of the titles for the time periods within this history are derived from the Nar'ysr's predictions. (EotSS, p6-7)

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"Within the Caleph Auguries, the Nar'ysr saw the rise and fall of the empires and powers. (EotSS, p7)

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"Still, for scholars across the Realms, the Phoenix Prophecies both instituted and predicted the great ages of Calimshan." (EotSS, p6)

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"In all, there are well over 8,000 separate Phoenix Prophecies recorded in the Herald Swordswreath's seven-volume manuscript, though, aside from the Caleph Auguries, most are of little interest to non-Calishites."

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...from a loose translation of his name when the Herald Swordswreath recorded many of his prophecies over 400 years ago.

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While copies of the Herald Swordswreath's manuscript lie in libraries in Candlekeep, Calimport, Silverymoon, Waterdeep, and elsewhere, the original manuscript volumes entitled The Phoenix Prophecies lie safely at Herald's Holdfast. This work is the first non-Calishite recording of the prophecies, though it is a work compiled both from a contemporary Abbalayar's memories and a number of small, now-lost sources that recorded earlier, slightly altered versions of the same prophecies. (EotSS, p6)

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"The Caleph Auguries are the most prominent and important prophecies made by the Nar'ysr, for they foretold (and continue to predict) the major schisms that established and later divided the so-called Empires of the Shining Sea. The Caleph Auguries roughly forecast the Nine Ages of Calimshan, and many of the titles for the time periods within this history are derived from the Nar'ysr's predictions. (EotSS, p6-7)

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"Within the Caleph Auguries, the Nar'ysr saw the rise and fall of the empires and powers. (EotSS, p7)

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"Still, along all the references to eclipses within the recorded Phoenix Prophecies, El Nar'ysr loosely predicted the Genie Wars, the Twelve Peak Wars, and the Eye Tyrant Wars, no less than four wars during the Shoon Imperium, and even the Time of Troubles and the Tuigan Horde---though they had little impact on Calimshan itself." (EotSS, p7)

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Meh. We don't have anything connecting the Phoenix Prophecies to the Cult of the Dragon. This doesn't rule it out, of course, but I think the existing lore for the Cult is strong enough without trying to tack on something with no apparent connection.

Besides, the timing is tricky for making that connection. Sammy created his first dracolich in 902DR. The Phoenix Prophecies were described, in 1370, as having been written "over 400 years ago" -- which I would say puts them at 931DR at the earliest. That's 439 years previously. Anything closer to 450 years would have been described as such, thinks I, and having them written closer to 900DR would make them closer to 500 years old. And again, if that was the case, I think they'd then be described as "nearly 500 years old" instead.

(The "over 400 years ago" reference comes from page 6 of Empires of the Shining Sea; page 45 says the current year is 1370)

Also, Sammy published his mistranslation in 887DR (page 16, The Cult of the Dragon); that's 15 years before he had a dracolich, and closer to 500 years before 1370.

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This doesn't rule it out, of course, but I think the existing lore for the Cult is strong enough without trying to tack on something with no apparent connection.

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

The timing issue remains. If they were recorded 400 years before 1370, then Sammy couldn't have read them in the 887-902 time frame.

And there's also the fact that there is absolutely nothing at all indicating Sammy was even aware of these prophecies. Everything we have on Sammy explicitly states his inspiration was Maglas's Chronicle of the Years to Come.

I'm not contesting that there's not niftiness contained in the Phoenix Prophecies, I'm contesting connecting them to something -- anything! -- without a reason to make that connection.

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

The timing issue remains. If they were recorded 400 years before 1370, then Sammy couldn't have read them in the 887-902 time frame.

And there's also the fact that there is absolutely nothing at all indicating Sammy was even aware of these prophecies. Everything we have on Sammy explicitly states his inspiration was Maglas's Chronicle of the Years to Come.

I'm not contesting that there's not niftiness contained in the Phoenix Prophecies, I'm contesting connecting them to something -- anything! -- without a reason to make that connection.

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I just flipped thru The Cult of the Dragon, a 2E source about Sammaster and the Cult. I did not see any prophecies in there, though it does say he retranslated many existing prophecies. It is from one of these mistranslations that the Cult arose.

Maglas, a seer and oracle, wrote in his book Chronicle of Years to Come:

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"And naught will be left save shattered thrones, with no rulers but the dead. Dragons shall rule the world entire, and..."

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Ol' Sammy translated it to:

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"And naught will be left save shattered thrones, with no rulers. But the dead dragons shall rule the world entire, and..."

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And that was enough to set Sammy down the path of creating his first dracolich...

The above info comes from page 16 of The Cult of the Dragon.

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Originally posted by Zeromaru X

My current theory is that the guy who made the original prophecy got it wrong. It wasn't a prophecy, it was a glimpse into Abeir, a world were the dragons killed their masters and dominated the world. Then Sammy went and muddled stuff even worse...

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Imagine the cult is just the result of lost in translation. Sammy just happen to suck really bad and should spend more skill points on additional languages.

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I just flipped thru The Cult of the Dragon, a 2E source about Sammaster and the Cult. I did not see any prophecies in there, though it does say he retranslated many existing prophecies. It is from one of these mistranslations that the Cult arose.

Maglas, a seer and oracle, wrote in his book Chronicle of Years to Come:

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"And naught will be left save shattered thrones, with no rulers but the dead. Dragons shall rule the world entire, and..."

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Ol' Sammy translated it to:

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"And naught will be left save shattered thrones, with no rulers. But the dead dragons shall rule the world entire, and..."

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Originally posted by Ayrik

Of course, the Ol' Sammy version inspired an evil Cult which actively attempts to make this version of the prophecy happen. Strange that such an accomplished wizard would be troubled over ambiguity in another wizard's visions instead of attempting to prophesize the visions directly. And strange that so many wizards would later promote or oppose the Cult without themselves attempting to confirm the original prophecy firsthand.

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