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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11859 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Dec 2020 : 22:45:38
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I just realized something and thought it was interesting enough to see if we could make something of it. Sadly, my memory on things from long ago isn't that great. I know in the Simbul's Gift there was discussion of the idea that one of the Yuir deities was known as "the Simbul" and that the queen of aglarond/chosen of mystra took her name from this goddess. I want to say that there was also some kind of involvement with the "dead goddess" and the chosen of mystra of the same name. It then hit me that the chosen of mystra also merged herself with Mystra. So, it would be almost like the god known as "the Simbul" might be merged with whatever version of Mystra is returned.
What do we know about that god known as the Simbul? I recall it being something like she was the goddess of the moment of choice or something like that.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1847 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2020 : 23:02:06
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| Checking now...I believe that information is touched on in the Spellbound boxed set. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2020 : 00:12:54
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| I think the Simbul was absorbed by Labelas |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
972 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2020 : 22:28:55
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| Simbul was the goddess of the moment of choice and was absorbed by Labelas as god of time. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2020 : 03:43:26
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| Thanks Tom! |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2020 : 04:20:37
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Tom,
That is so cool. Thank you for the response. I looked all over the Seven Sisters and Spellbound. I couldn't find it. Would you mind telling me where that is at? To be clear, not calling you out. Just curious is all! :)
Best regards,
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1288 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2020 : 15:56:10
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| Have you read the 2nd edition supplement on the non-human deities? Labelas's entry may have more on that; I also recall Labelas absorbing that aspect - was any of it discussed in the Simbul's Gift when Alassra and Alustriel talk with the elven sages? |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1288 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2020 : 16:07:20
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| (side bar - The Simbul's Gift is SO GOOD). |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
972 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2020 : 01:52:23
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| Demihuman Deities p117. And yes, The Simbul's Gift may be my single favorite Realms book with all due apologies to Elaine Cunningham and Paul Kemp. |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2020 : 06:53:51
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Tom,
Wow, thank you for that share! I never took note of that. That is so interesting. I find it interesting that it identified the Simbul of Aglarond not realizing the context of the name until 1368DR. I wonder what caused her to come across that name prior to that then?
Also, on another point: I know you said that novel was likely your favorite. I am curious though: did you like Tymora's Luck?
Best regards,
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe
USA
976 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2020 : 08:52:10
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Simbul in ancient Aglarondan tradition also roughly translated to "watchful warrior wizard". Considering her history of decimating invaders, especially Red Wizards, that appelation aptly fit her.
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Tom,
Wow, thank you for that share! I never took note of that. That is so interesting. I find it interesting that it identified the Simbul of Aglarond not realizing the context of the name until 1368DR. I wonder what caused her to come across that name prior to that then?
Also, on another point: I know you said that novel was likely your favorite. I am curious though: did you like Tymora's Luck?
Best regards,
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11859 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2020 : 18:22:51
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| So, without dragging out the Simbul's Gift, what happened between "The Simbul GOD" and "The Simbul Chosen" in the novel? Even if Labelas HAD absorbed that other god, there was some kind of aspect of her that got involved with the chosen of Mystra. Maybe it was just a conversation? I just honestly don't recall the encounter other than I know it happened. Oh, and I agree, I loved the novel. In fact, I took Lauzoril's daughters and had them growing up on Abeir for the last century. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2020 : 21:12:01
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Senior Scribe Delnyn,
Ah, thank you for that. That is in fact quite apropos! She does bring the pain to the Red Wizards for sure!
I love how the council in Aglarond complains when she is gone for a period of time here and there. I think to myself: exactly what would you be doing to stop the Red Wizards if you did ditch her? lol
Best regards,
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe
USA
976 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2020 : 22:01:03
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Answer: Keep the tharchions and zulkirs at each others' throats.
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Senior Scribe Delnyn,
Ah, thank you for that. That is in fact quite apropos! She does bring the pain to the Red Wizards for sure!
I love how the council in Aglarond complains when she is gone for a period of time here and there. I think to myself: exactly what would you be doing to stop the Red Wizards if you did ditch her? lol
Best regards,
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1288 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2020 : 22:41:22
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
So, without dragging out the Simbul's Gift, what happened between "The Simbul GOD" and "The Simbul Chosen" in the novel? Even if Labelas HAD absorbed that other god, there was some kind of aspect of her that got involved with the chosen of Mystra. Maybe it was just a conversation? I just honestly don't recall the encounter other than I know it happened. Oh, and I agree, I loved the novel. In fact, I took Lauzoril's daughters and had them growing up on Abeir for the last century.
I believe towards the end of the book the Simbul goddess and Chosen do have an interaction of sorts at the stone that has the Simbul's name on it (although I may be confusing this with Zandilar the Dancer (not the horse)).
But I don't remember what happened...if anything of import between them other than the Simbul realizing who her namesake is and what portfolio she had?
I am reading Tymora's Luck (for the 8th time) so I'll swap back to The Simbul's Gift as my next read I think. This thread made me nostalgic. Aznar Thrull is written so well in it. I hate that RLB couldn't be arsed to read The Simbul's Gift before he wrote the Undead series. |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2020 : 23:06:29
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Senior Scribe Delnyn,
Isn't that the truth. Had one more Zulkir and one more Tharchion contributed during the Salamander Wars, Chessenta would be a vassal state by 1365DR. They are idiots at times. Powerful idiots. Idiots nonetheless, at times.
Best regards,
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2020 : 23:44:41
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Master Seravin,
quote:
I am reading Tymora's Luck (for the 8th time) so I'll swap back to The Simbul's Gift as my next read I think. This thread made me nostalgic. Aznar Thrull is written so well in it. I hate that RLB couldn't be arsed to read The Simbul's Gift before he wrote the Undead series.
I hear you on the Tymora's Luck awesomeness. I have not read it that many times, but I think I've read it (3) times.
What do you mean by the RLB comment? He was asked to read it and refused to do so?
Best regards,
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1288 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2020 : 18:11:42
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He posted on one of the FB groups about the Undead trilogy of books and I asked him about his research before writing a book set in Thay; he said he had not read The Simbul's Gift before. Which is such a shame, because I think it gives such a good insight to the Thay envisioned by Ed. The scene with the Zulkir convocation in the Chairs is so brilliant, and Szass being in hiding the entire book but still making his presence felt..god I need to re-read it.
I guess if I was lucky enough to be chosen to write a Realms novel, I would read all the books set in the area I was writing, and as much sourcebook material as I could. I would not ignore what was already written.
Aznar was written in The Simbul's Gift of being almost psychotically paranoid and cautious; he made everyone meeting him strip naked to ensure they weren't hiding weapons, and when his spymaster dared to come before him without proper precaution the spymaster was completely flattened by wards/magic. Contingency is a spell from the Invocation/Evocation school, of which Aznar is the Zulkir and level 22 or 23 I believe...that he had NO CONTINGENCY magic on him given how paranoid he was written previously, makes zero sense. It shows that RLB did not read or care about what came before him in Thay. My opinion, anyway.
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2020 : 18:33:28
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Master Seravin,
Good point about Zulkir Aznar Thrull.
I also had a question for you since it's been so long since I've read the Simbul's Gift: were there major battle scenes in that novel between military forces?
Best regards,
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe
USA
976 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2020 : 20:20:08
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Does Alassra have a spiritual connection to the Yuirwood akin to the connection the hathran have with Rashemen? After all, she packs the raw power of a full circle of hathran, and she has a greater arsenal of spontaneous spells than her sorceror class would imply. Think Universal Rashemi Spirit magic feature, but applied to Aglarond.
Hearkening to the Simbul's Gift, why else would she risk giving her true name to a Zulkir of Thay of all people? All I could think of: She can easily afford even such a risk, and Lauzoril concluded the same within a eye blink. |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1288 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2020 : 11:21:31
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CPthero2- no army battle scenes in The Simbul's Gift, it was in the aftermath of Szass trying to control some Demon Prince and losing the epic battle so he was in hiding/nursing his wounds. I would so read a novel about Szass (pre Undead trilogy). The warefare in The Simbul's Gift was more about espionage, spymasters, small clusters of red wizards operating in Aglarond and Thay on behalf of different Zulkirs.
Delnyn - not sure if she if the akin to the witches of Rasheman lines up - more her extreme power is being a Chosen of Mystra than the Yuirwood - I did note that the Old Man of the Forest kind of whipped her butt in the novel or at least was her match.
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
972 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2020 : 01:48:59
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The thread has moved on. Sorry. Tymora's Luck was good and IIRC on the better side of the Realms novels, but I don't recall it being in the same league as the Simbul's Gift, Cunningham's books or Kemp's books.
As for RLB, in his defense, he said he wasn't aware of the Simbul's Gift, which I can't blame him much for. WotC should have caught that, not that I want to start a thread bashing WotC for mistakes. We all make em. Back to the book, Abbey's characterization of the zulkirs, especially Lauzoril as 3 dimensional was simply outstanding. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11859 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2020 : 16:03:30
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Yeah, I loved Lauzoril before the Simbul's Gift, but after it, I saw him more as a family man and a more believable personality. One thing I played with was an idea that during the Thayan Civil War, Lauzoril setup his family in Soorenar and that Soorenar partially went to Abeir. I so liked Mimuay that I wanted to turn her into an NPC, and even though we don't see much screen time for her, I also wanted to use her sister Nyasia in an entirely different way. Whereas Mimuay is a gothic type personae, Nyasia is a more bubbly, loving personality befitting the Zulkir of Enchantment, who becomes very important as an ambassador between disparate people.
Since I have it open, here's some timeline entries I have
1369 DR - Ever untrusting of the Zulkir of Necromancy, the Zulkir of Enchantment, Lauzoril of Thay, geases a white necromancer of Damara to train his fourteen year old daughter, Mimuay. She had already learned the rudiments of magic from a ghost apprentice named Ferrin, but this ghost had been destroyed (see the novel the Simbul's Gift). Lauzoril also altered the woman's memories so that she would have memories of arriving at the estate due to a “dream vision” that she had received from the gods themselves. She came bearing a magical bloodstone diadem, an item enchanted by Lauzoril himself, but which she believed would lead her to an apprentice who needed her guidance. As part of her training, the Ilmatari necromancer also teaches Mimuay of the various Faerunian deities, and in particular preaches the evils of Orcus, demon lord of undead, and her hopes that the newly risen god of necromancy, one Velsharoon, will prove to be less evil.
1377 DR – The rural estate of Zulkir of Enchantment, Lauzoril Tavai, in Thazalhar is discovered by the undead forces of Xingax, an atropal in service to Szass Tam who experimented in necromantic magics. Zulkir Lauzoril is unaware of the assault due to the spellwork of the red wizard necromancers amongst the undead. The household servants and guards are quickly overwhelmed and the undead converge upon the estate house itself. Lauzoril's wife, Wenne, and his two daughters, Mimuay, a young necromancer in training, and Nyasia, an innocent young teenager with an interest in stories, poetry, and music all wait in fear for their lives. However, when the undead actually enter the house, Mimuay calls upon Velsharoon to aid her, and the god answers her plea. All of the undead shirk their bonds of control placed upon them by the allies of Szass Tam and immediately kill them. Mimuay leads her mother and younger sister to the city of Bezantur, leaving her estate home for the first time in her life. They are met in Bezantur by necromancer priests of Velsharoon, who believed themselves sent by their god to find and bring a powerful necromancer to Soorenar.
1382 DR – Szass Tam becomes incensed by the necromancer-priests of Velsharoon serving as mercenaries alongside the other Zulkirs. Seeking to deter their influence, he sends several cultists of Orcus to assault their temple surrounding the Tower Terrible in Soorenar. The cultists fail disastrously, but they do manage to kill Lauzoril's wife, Wenne, who was busy sewing a silken robe for her eldest daughter, Mimuay, in their new home. Mimuay, who had been serving alongside the necromancer-priests of Velsharoon in Thay, turns in grief to Tharchion Dmitra Flass for comfort and a bond is formed between these two women.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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The God - Simbul - What do we know?
