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Originally posted by cpthero2

Senior Scribe Seethyr,

Wow, I don't know what the justification for that different of an aberration is. This may just be another inconsistency issue I hate to say. They are remarkably different.

Best regards,

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Originally posted by PattPlays

By Monster Manual you mean Volo's Guide to Monsters, yes? That book is presented as in-canon despite the many bastardisations of creatures such as the Devourer. Perhaps it's just Volo being an exaggerating oaf.

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Originally posted by cpthero2

Senior Scribe Seethyr,

I'm pretty certain Volo was just imbibing all too correctly in the Dreammist...

Best regards,

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Originally posted by PattPlays


I still don't know what's up with that town in Calimshan with the exact same name..

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Dec 5, 2019


@nessus88

I hope you are healing well and feeling better. Thank you for answering questions. I happen to have a question about Volo. I noticed there is a city in Calimshan called 'Volothamp' and I was wondering if he is named after the city or if he gave himself a pen name?


@TheEdVerse

Oooh! You've stumbled on a hidden secret of the Realms! Volo is indeed named after the city, as he was conceived there, and his mother had a secret sideline business in having babies for nobility and royalty (and keeping very quiet about it, so they could pass off her babes as legitimate fullblood heirs), and wanted to keep track of where she 'made' her own child. (Eventually, someone decided to guarantee the silence of Volo's parents by murdering them. Via deft hired killers who offed them separately in "accidents.")


@Mr_Espinos

For a moment I thought you were talking about the town of Volo located just south of Lake Geneva, Wisconsin. I was super excited because I had wondered if he was named for the town, it being located so close to the birthplace of #DnD


@StevenESchend

Partly inspired from Volo Bog in the sense. I always liked Jeff Grubb’s conception of Volo’s travelogues in that he named places after himself if he didn’t bother to learn the local name


@Mr_Espinos

So, standard colonial white guy?


@TheEdVerse

Heh. Volo's a SATIRE of the "Great White Explorer" of the British Empire, and has been from the start. We needed an 'idiot narrator.' Jeff Grubb named him; I already had the character (Elminster kept turning him into water-spouting frog fountains and the like.)
#Realmslore


@Mr_Espinos

He feels appropriately cartoonish.


@nessus88

Thank you so much for answering. This is great to know. Can I ask if Volo knows that his parents were murdered and for what reason?


@TheEdVerse

No. He SUSPECTS, but only recently, because they died at different times and the fatal accidents were so well-crafted. You see, it's only recently that he learned of his mother's sideline business (which was FAR more profitable than the everyday work his parents did).
#Realmslore


@RandomQueriant

How recently?

Are we talking soon enough that the killers, and the people who sent them, are likely still alive?

Or 5e "recently", and the killers children, and possibly their grandchildren, have probably died of old age?


@TheEdVerse

The latter. As extant Realmslore records, Volo was one of those who survived the Spellplague and Sundering via magical means.
#Realmslore

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

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Originally posted by PattPlays


I still don't know what's up with that town in Calimshan with the exact same name..

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Dec 5, 2019


@nessus88

I hope you are healing well and feeling better. Thank you for answering questions. I happen to have a question about Volo. I noticed there is a city in Calimshan called 'Volothamp' and I was wondering if he is named after the city or if he gave himself a pen name?


@TheEdVerse

Oooh! You've stumbled on a hidden secret of the Realms! Volo is indeed named after the city, as he was conceived there, and his mother had a secret sideline business in having babies for nobility and royalty (and keeping very quiet about it, so they could pass off her babes as legitimate fullblood heirs), and wanted to keep track of where she 'made' her own child. (Eventually, someone decided to guarantee the silence of Volo's parents by murdering them. Via deft hired killers who offed them separately in "accidents.")


@Mr_Espinos

For a moment I thought you were talking about the town of Volo located just south of Lake Geneva, Wisconsin. I was super excited because I had wondered if he was named for the town, it being located so close to the birthplace of #DnD


@StevenESchend

Partly inspired from Volo Bog in the sense. I always liked Jeff Grubb’s conception of Volo’s travelogues in that he named places after himself if he didn’t bother to learn the local name


@Mr_Espinos

So, standard colonial white guy?


@TheEdVerse

Heh. Volo's a SATIRE of the "Great White Explorer" of the British Empire, and has been from the start. We needed an 'idiot narrator.' Jeff Grubb named him; I already had the character (Elminster kept turning him into water-spouting frog fountains and the like.)
#Realmslore


@Mr_Espinos

He feels appropriately cartoonish.


@nessus88

Thank you so much for answering. This is great to know. Can I ask if Volo knows that his parents were murdered and for what reason?


@TheEdVerse

No. He SUSPECTS, but only recently, because they died at different times and the fatal accidents were so well-crafted. You see, it's only recently that he learned of his mother's sideline business (which was FAR more profitable than the everyday work his parents did).
#Realmslore


@RandomQueriant

How recently?

Are we talking soon enough that the killers, and the people who sent them, are likely still alive?

Or 5e "recently", and the killers children, and possibly their grandchildren, have probably died of old age?


@TheEdVerse

The latter. As extant Realmslore records, Volo was one of those who survived the Spellplague and Sundering via magical means.
#Realmslore

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....blame the spellplague?

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Originally posted by cpthero2

Learned Scribe PattPlays,

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....blame the spellplague?

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Always blame the Spellplague. ;) hahaha

Wave that 3e and prior lore flag, good sir! :)

Best regards,




P.S. That was a hilarious transcript.

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The thing about the morkoth is they were truly a race in Seros. They had racial desires and hundreds gathered in communities. There isn’t even an inkling of such a possibility in Volos. I am not saying I don’t like their new description, it just stomps all over lore which is aggravating.

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Originally posted by cpthero2

Senior Scribe Seethyr,

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The thing about the morkoth is they were truly a race in Seros. They had racial desires and hundreds gathered in communities. There isn’t even an inkling of such a possibility in Volos. I am not saying I don’t like their new description, it just stomps all over lore which is aggravating.

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I get that. That is the main problem with 4e/5e: they just nerfed all of the lore so they could lower costs and pump out adventures. The pain is real.

Best regards,

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The old lore is still there, everyone.

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Also, I think there is a bit of disillusion here. With all due respect, if the 3rd edition entry describes a colorful culture and race (3e was the generation of "everything is a playable template")

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• The Forgotten Realms was the dominant and implicitly understood "official" campaign from 2nd edition onward, by practicality
• I do believe that the approach of "everything is a playable template" went too far. I think that WotC was on the right track, but at the same time, I think they went too far as frankly, players are often not overly interested in understanding different cultures to that degree, but rather, wish to have the mechanical advantages alone
• Rarely does any manual ever describe a "colorful culture and race", without additional accessories, magazine articles, etc. I believe it was best done during older times as the setting supported the development of creatures, etc. when that occurred.

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...and the 2e Morkoth was basically a psychic crustacean trick monster,...

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Habitat Soaety: Morkoths arc normally solitary creatures. They sometimes make alliances with kraken, offering their help in exchange for an occasional slave. If approached by evil sea humanoids for assistance morkoths may strike a bargain bur often betray their "allies" at the most opportune moment. I Morkoths rarely leave their tunnels. The tunnels are originally natural, but are slowly carved over the coume of centuries by the morkoths so that the central chamber grows larger. Morkoth sometimes build their tunnels near hot air vents, so the water in morkoth lairs may be warmer than normal. Morkoths realize that other intelligent creatures like treasure, so they collect belongings from the creatures they kill to use in bargaining with other creatures. They place no value on gold o
gems or even magical items. Morkoths enjoy deception above all else. They do not enslave their victims, if only because their appetites are so fierce that slaves would not survive long. (Monstrous Manual, p.258)

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A morkoth lives a solitary existence, spending most of its days inside a maze of tunnels constructed of rock or coral at the bottom of the sea. The outer part of a morkoth’s lair usually consists of six tunnels, all spiraling outward, crisscrossing and interconnecting with one another in a bewildering pattern. The creature’s actual home is at the center of this maze. A morkoth uses a variety of lures to draw prey into its clutches. It may dangle treasure as a prize, but its hypnosis ability is the most powerful lure at its disposal. Once in a morkoth’s clutches, a victim doesn’t usually survive for long, since these creatures are interested in capturing only food, not slaves or captives. A morkoth has little interest in treasure except as a lure for prospective victims.(Monster Manual II, p.152)

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• Solitary existence: both, check.
• Spend most of their time in tunnels/rarely leave tunnels: both, check.
• Carved tunnels that turn into mazes or something similar to that: both, check.
• Don't value treasure: both, check.
• Use deception/hypnosis: both, check.

• 2nd edition Morkoth: "Special Attacks: Hypnosis"
• 3rd edition Morkoth: "Special Attacks: Hypnosis"

• 2nd edition Morkoth: 3,820 characters and 669 words
• 3rd edition Morkoth: 4,243 character, 742 words

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...and the 5e Morkoth is a legendary astral traveler who imprisons the minds of all who come near it, then have we not established a precedent for each edition radically transforming this aberrant beaked creature into a new role in the game-space?

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The morkoth of the 5e MM is such a departure from what they are like in FR in Seros that I almost see them as a completely different species with just the same name.

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They are all viable, all can be used in any of your games, and the coming of a later version never reduced any aspect of the older entries.

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What is the issue with 5e's interpretation of this 3.0 entry?

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There is no lore in this core monster manual about any Seros culture, that must be in a realmslore book.

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This 3.0 entry seems to be perfectly between the 2e hypnotic aquatic tunnel horror and the powerful solitary lairing hoarder of 5e. The emphasis on the lair of the morkoth in both 2e and 3e is a guarantee that the 5e version would be Legendary, as to obtain Lair actions and regional effects that would -add- to their status as terrifying lair monsters.

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If there's no lore about Seros (or any culture at all for that matter) in the core 3e entry then why would you expect any in the 5e entry?

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Remind me again why the 5e version of the morkoth is in any way more offensive than the 3e or the 2e entry for that matter?

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That was calming to read. Thanks for pointing out the fallacies.

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Originally posted by LordofBones

A lot of monster fluff is just flat-out bizarre. Look at the medusae; 2e and 3e have them as a monstrous race with a rare male species, who mate with mortal men. Okay, fine, they probably rose from the Olympian pantheon's home sphere then spread out.

In 5e, they're people who made deals with archdevils and demon lords for beauty. How does that even work? Did every single baatezu lord or tanar'ri prince decide on a universal template? Baatezu are lawful, so why would they inflict the snake-curse thing after the deal's duration? Why would tanar'ri inflict a standard curse template?

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Originally posted by Seethyr

Aarakocra as servants of the Wind Dukes of Aaqa? I guess that one is feasible...

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Originally posted by cpthero2

Master LordofBones,

I honestly do not understand why so many unusual developments, at least anecdotally, exist with the push to 5e. It is honestly very, very strange.

I mean, beyond what appears to be the real reason: WotC is trying to be as generic as possible to limit offending one customer segment over another, which is my only guess to date.

Best regards,

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I think it's because they've got designers with "kewl" ideas and absolutely no respect for (and possibly no awareness of!) that which came before. To paraphrase Ian Malcolm: "Your designers were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should."

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