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Scimitars of Drizzt
Seeker
Canada
77 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Oct 2020 : 03:07:45
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I'm trying to get a handle on the precise capabilities of a wizard in Faerun in terms of how they're portrayed in the novels. For perspective, in edition 3.5 Pharaun Mizzrym is listed as as class 14 wizard, and class 3 Archmage. Gromph, a class 16 diviner, and a class 4 archmage (or a class 20 wizard in 3e). I'm trying not to look too much into these numbers, but I don't know what else to go on. On the Realms Help site, Gromph casts "spell-like abilties" such as faerie fire at level 22, and Pharaun at level 17. For their massive list of prepared spells it doesn't mention levels, and I'm just sitting here knowing I'm overthinking, and ignorant.
I get these levels are used for campaigns, but when these characters were written in the novels there must have been something to go by in terms of how frequently they could cast powerful spells. Or maybe not, and it's really just all up to the writer.
Can anybody help me put this into perspective in terms of the level of spells that any given wizard can cast? These wizards in the novels, say they got a theoretical wizard level to put things into perspective. How does this level apply to which level spells they can cast realistically in the novels, and to the frequency? How much does this even matter? I've seen examples where 5th level spells require a wizard that is at least level 9, but I'm not sure if this is exclusive to campaigns. I get wizard levels and gaming stats aren't really relevant to how these characters are portrayed in the books. After hours of research I'm just at a loss.
I'm sure this question is kind of a mess, but I'm clearly overthinking this massively. Any help would be much appreciated.
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"Surrender now, or we will slay you!" the leader of the creatures called, a bit louder and more forcefully.
"A moment, please, my friend," Zasian said, motioning to the dwarf for patience. "We are discussing your terms."
"Ye heading off with Invo . . . Inno . . . that durned elf?" |
Edited by - Scimitars of Drizzt on 25 Oct 2020 03:26:17
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36826 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2020 : 04:10:13
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The rules have been pretty consistent on this for a while... Basically, a wizard can cast spells that are half of his levels, rounded up.
So a 13th level wizard could cast 7th level spells. A 5th level wizard can cast 3rd level spells. An 8th level wizard can cast 4th level spells.
Some of the prestige classes and such allow continued spell progression at the same rate as the base class, others do not. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 25 Oct 2020 04:50:36 |
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Scimitars of Drizzt
Seeker
Canada
77 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2020 : 04:17:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The rules have been pretty consistent on this for a while... Basically, a wizard can cast spells that are half of his levels, rounded up.
Well, I did not know. I forgot to mention I don't own any manuals or sourcebooks, nor have I ever played D&D. I should have said that. Thanks. |
"Surrender now, or we will slay you!" the leader of the creatures called, a bit louder and more forcefully.
"A moment, please, my friend," Zasian said, motioning to the dwarf for patience. "We are discussing your terms."
"Ye heading off with Invo . . . Inno . . . that durned elf?" |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36826 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2020 : 04:52:08
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No worries. 
I owned and perused a lot of the rulebooks long before I ever played... And I've got an utter buttload of rulebooks for systems I've never played or that I've only played once or twice.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Scimitars of Drizzt
Seeker
Canada
77 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2020 : 05:15:59
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| Nice! These forums are great, I feel as if it's host to the best of the best in terms of people with knowledge on the lore. Gotta love it. |
"Surrender now, or we will slay you!" the leader of the creatures called, a bit louder and more forcefully.
"A moment, please, my friend," Zasian said, motioning to the dwarf for patience. "We are discussing your terms."
"Ye heading off with Invo . . . Inno . . . that durned elf?" |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2020 : 03:38:01
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Seeker Scimitars of Drizzt,
First of all, since I've yet to converse with you on here: welcome to the site, and thank you for the post!
Master Rupert of course is spot on in his analysis. I wanted to also mention that sometimes you will just see inconsistencies when juxtaposing crunch (mechanical stats) with fluff (roleplay/story stuff). It happens.
Though not exactly a 1:1 here, I do remember for example a character named Shal-Bal from the novel Pools of Radiance using a Ring of Three Wishes (she had at very low level) and the use of the Wish did not comport with the rules of that spell. It was just a thing for the story though.
Best regards,
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4452 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2020 : 10:12:20
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| When it comes to characters in the novels, I like to think of the rules more like guidelines than hard-coded requirements when delving into the full capabilities of such characters. It doesn't help that each edition is different and messes up the context of what said character is capable of achieving depending on the ruleset. For example, Pharaun Mizzrym is a Wiz 14/ Arc 3; CR 19 character, but in 4E (while not getting official stats) would probably be in the upper 20's (I'd put him as a 26th or 27th level Elite Controller). That's why I've come to dislike the hard levels/rules for NPC creation that 3.5 started. Let it be vague and let the narrative of the story dictate their unique qualities and flaws, not feat chains and spell-lists and multiclassing. |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2020 : 10:22:11
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Great Reader Diffan,
Agreed! You just have to get stuff done in those novels at times, and crunch be damned! ;)
Best regards,
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Scimitars of Drizzt
Seeker
Canada
77 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2020 : 23:01:16
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quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Seeker Scimitars of Drizzt,
First of all, since I've yet to converse with you on here: welcome to the site, and thank you for the post!
Master Rupert of course is spot on in his analysis. I wanted to also mention that sometimes you will just see inconsistencies when juxtaposing crunch (mechanical stats) with fluff (roleplay/story stuff). It happens.
Though not exactly a 1:1 here, I do remember for example a character named Shal-Bal from the novel Pools of Radiance using a Ring of Three Wishes (she had at very low level) and the use of the Wish did not comport with the rules of that spell. It was just a thing for the story though.
Best regards,
Thanks!! I love your usage of the forum titles to address the posters  And interesting, that example is nice to know. Thanks!
quote:
When it comes to characters in the novels, I like to think of the rules more like guidelines than hard-coded requirements when delving into the full capabilities of such characters. It doesn't help that each edition is different and messes up the context of what said character is capable of achieving depending on the ruleset. For example, Pharaun Mizzrym is a Wiz 14/ Arc 3; CR 19 character, but in 4E (while not getting official stats) would probably be in the upper 20's (I'd put him as a 26th or 27th level Elite Controller). That's why I've come to dislike the hard levels/rules for NPC creation that 3.5 started. Let it be vague and let the narrative of the story dictate their unique qualities and flaws, not feat chains and spell-lists and multiclassing.
Makes sense. Thanks for the additional clarification, that is interesting to know regarding Pharaun! |
"Surrender now, or we will slay you!" the leader of the creatures called, a bit louder and more forcefully.
"A moment, please, my friend," Zasian said, motioning to the dwarf for patience. "We are discussing your terms."
"Ye heading off with Invo . . . Inno . . . that durned elf?" |
Edited by - Scimitars of Drizzt on 26 Oct 2020 23:02:58 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4452 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2020 : 23:59:43
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quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Great Reader Diffan,
Agreed! You just have to get stuff done in those novels at times, and crunch be damned! ;)
Best regards,
Exactly! I remember reading one of the Drizzt books, The Lone Drow maybe?, in which Drizzt drops two globes of darkness on his enemies before attacking and I was like "wait a minute, they can't do that....." and then later I saw Drow of the Underdark supplement that had a feat that lets drow do that more often with a Deeper Darkness effect. Not saying that Drizzt had that particular feat, but I found it funny that it was rules-breaking in a novel that eneded up as an option later on.
This is one of the major reasons why I still love 4E. I don't need an in-game reason/mechanic to have my Human Berserker wield two greatswords other than "that's his schtick." Before, he'd need X-amount of Hit Die, X stat requirements, and X Feat chains before even wielding them "propertly" and not without significant penalties. |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2020 : 16:09:32
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Seeker Drizzt,
quote:
Thanks!! I love your usage of the forum titles to address the posters
Thank you, and I am glad you like the approach. I of course always think of Candlekeep as a place of learning, and with it, the great imagery of hard working sages. So, I just liked the idea of utilizing the titles in a "formal" way when dealing with sages here at the Keep. Of course, nothing in the code of conduct about it, I just thought it would be fun, and since creating an account here seven years ago, I've just kept it up to this day. It's fun. :)
quote:
And interesting, that example is nice to know. Thanks!
No sweat, and glad you liked the example. It is a stark example when compared to later years of writing. I always think of that situation in the Pools of Radiance as sort of crunch porn for Realms gamers. It was really over the top, but, what can you do? haha
quote:
Makes sense. Thanks for the additional clarification, that is interesting to know regarding Pharaun!
No sweat. I think another thing to consider is that mechanics really just do address those, well, crunchy things. They don't speak 1:1 on being clever, devious, etc. Those qualities when combined with crunch are the dynamic duo, if you will. ;)
Best regards,
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Wizard Prowess
