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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Dec 2020 : 10:04:45
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I suppose, but perhaps Ordning does not literally translate into "order" but perhaps means something like Assembly of the Glorious Tribes.
Perhaps i can look for inspiration in the dwarven dictionary since the two languages are meant to be related.
I can understand the lack of interest in giant lore, there simply wasnt enough of it to make it interesting but i think that is starting to change.
Giant lore in Icewind Dale is from what i can gather summarised below.
The Reghedmen fought Kelvin Duarol in the land around Kelvin's Cairn in the distant past.
A giant city of Ostoria named Karffbadh once existed on the peninsula that is now covered by the Sea of Moving Ice.
There are seven thrones at Jarlmoot west of the Ten Towns. The leader of this moot was known as the Jarl of Jarls.
So we have a number of possibilities with regards to the ordering but it seems clear that first was Karffbadh, one of the successors to Ostoria, which gradually fell as the north was covered with ice from the ever expanding Great Glacier and the climate changes caused by it.
Presumably the giants moved from Karffbadh to outlying areas of their city state, which is now known as Icewind Dale.
So either we have Kevlin Duarol and his battle with the Reghedmen next or we have the Jarlmoot.
I think it more likely that Jarlmoot came next, the clans of Karffbadh migrated to Icewind Dale and gradually separated into 7 distinct groups led by the Jarl of Jarls who presumably was descended from the ruling family of Karffbadh.
These jarldoms gradually fell one by one to external or internal pressures. I think there were a group of white dragons (a remnant of Hoarfaern perhaps) that once laired around here and likely fought with the frost giants, causing the fall of a number of jarldoms.
Then Kelvin Duarol who controlled the Ten Towns region, fought with the Reghedmen and lost and thus ended frost giant dominance in the area.
I reckon there should be lots of old giant ruins in the Sea of Moving Ice, and more than a few under the Reghed Glacier and of course inside Kelvin's Cairn |
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Returnip
Learned Scribe
222 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2020 : 21:01:34
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quote:
..perhaps Ordning does not literally translate into "order"..
The word "ordning" (it's a Scandinavian word) does indeed translate literally into the English "order". The word can also be used in the various senses that order can be used. Like "world order", "societal order" and can definitely mean a hierarchy for example. |
On the other hand you have different fingers. |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2020 : 02:22:28
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Learned Scribe Returnip,
Oh, and I just bet you're from this fabled land of Scandinavia, now are ya....? 
Best regards,
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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xaos_bob
Acolyte
1 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2021 : 07:39:53
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Hello Reader Dallison,
I'm a bit late to the proceedings, but I wanted to remind you that 2e did, indeed, have tieflings. They weren't a core heritage, but they were introduced by Planescape, and included Torment, which predates both IWD games.
That said, Planescape was rather treated by WotC as a niche setting, despite even Torment's popularity. Not a shock that legitimate tiefers didn't make a showing in Icewind Dale.
As to the plethora of awakened animals, I have been mulling that over for days now. As it stands, there is no good reason (stated or implied) for druids to be doing this. Ravisin, the druid credited for awakening both the plesiosaur and the white moose, is angry about her sister's death, but awakening animals seems a reaaly weird way to get revenge.
So I chalk it up to something that fell through the cracks. Maybe it sounded cool enough in meetings, but in execution it is just strange and a little stupid. A druid, even an evil one, inflicts sapience on an innocent animal permanently, then abandons them with the admonishment of "go and kill a bunch of people because I say so"? How is that remotely druidic? Burdening them with a mind that cannot benefit from hands and tools and social structures, then enslaving them to pursue a personal agenda is one of the least druidic things I have ever heard. How can she even still cast her spells? How has the earth itself not arisen to consume her at this point?
I haven't yet determined what I will do instead. I lean toward using the story as written as background for a player who can speak with animals. Unless there is a compelling reason for an animal to be awakened and not, y'know, simply an animal doing its thing, there will be no awakened beasts in my RotF campaigns.
Finally, thank you to everyone in this thread for your research. It has led me in some unexpected directions, which is really nice after reading the fourth source regarding the Dale that has been copy-pasted from the previous. Seriously, four. That I recall clearly, there may have been a couple more. I appreciate an author double-dipping their own work, but it was getting pretty bland. And then I found this thread! So thank you, again. |
"If we be adventurers, then let us ADVENTURE!"
~Minsc, Baldur's Gate |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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LadyNukshia
Acolyte
Spain
4 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2021 : 13:57:04
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Hi!
Thank you everyone for your contributions in this interesting conversation. I'm new to Icewind Dale, you gave me many insights and new ideas.
We now the novels and the sourcebooks don't always agree, and here is one example related to the thread:
The short story "The First Notch" - by RAS published in one Dragon magazine and The Collected Stories, The Legend of Drizzt - is about the battle with the ettin mentioned in The Legacy. The shadow dragon had already enter but not invaded with his minions.
We can read this line about Bruenor in the firsts paragraphs: "He had passed the midpoint of his third decade, nearly into his threens, yet truly he felt a child when he thought of his hairless face, not a single whisker showing. "
--> he wasn't even 30 years old, that means it was before 1150 DR (not 1172 like sourcebook - Hall of Heroes? - says)
We know also, from Dwarven Deep, that the Battlehammer stay in Ironmaster for a while, though not welcomed there, so I don't think they stayed long.
And also, if there where any human settlement (Caer Dinev or Caer Koning maybe) taken by orcs or goblins, I think they would have get ridden of them before settle in the Valley, to close home.
So the Battlehammers could have arrived a couple of years later after leaving Mithral Hall, or maybe just one.
If their only neighbours were the nomads tribes (Ice hunters and Reghed men), definetly they'd have be very wary of them: the ones from Ironmaster kill them or stripped of their weapons and everything if they enter their territory! Maybe there was some trade for building trust, like weapons for pelts or teach their explorers to survive and hunt there.
If there where any settlement there already, they may welcome the new allies, but maybe they didn't like the trade with the tribes...
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Reimagining Icewind Dale
