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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Sep 2020 : 07:45:21
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Good evening Ladies, Gentlemen, Dignitaries, Scribes of Realmslore, and other Distinguished Individuals,
It's been a while since I've posted on here. I have to say, I've missed the fantastic arguments I've had with some of you over the years, and most especially with Master Rupert. The Covid-19 issue has made it greatly difficult for a variety of reasons to post during this time, but I am hoping this is my return to the "real" world now. ;) I hope you all are doing well. My question this evening is regarding the "Dark Herald" of Tethyr.
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Has anyone ever managed to discover who the Dark Herald is, or have a good idea of who they feel the Dark Herald may be?
I believe the Dark Herald to be Teremir II of the Bormul Dynasty. I outline my reasoning below.
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I believe the Dark Herald to be Teremir II of the Bormul Dynasty. I believe this as the ""Dark Herald" of Tethyr, who set himself up as an authority after the fall of the royal family, and was killed a year later-the
uniformity of standards, armorial bearings, and fees is threatened." [Code of the Harpers, pg. 75] Teremir II is the only one listed in the monarchs section of the Grand History of the Realms for Tethyr that was in his position for one year. (GHotR, pg. 84)
Now, I know this is not an ironclad bit of evidence here, but is all I could find thus far, as the most objective element of what I could find in the CotH quote was an identification of being killed one year after having found himself in a position of authority. The only individual in the listing of rulers of Tethyr that was in a position of power for one year, was Teremir II.
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Issues with my idea:
1) The quote from CotH specifically says "...set himself up as an authority after the fall of the royal family...", but does not indicate he ruled. So, while odd, yet not confirming a rulership position, he was not identified as a regent, vizier, or something else. [Thank you to my friend ironfist221 for having pointed that out to me and for having some great Discord voice chats with me about this topic!]
2) The "Dark Herald" must be after 992DR, as that is when the Herald's came into existence.
3) I could not find a comprehensive list of all Herald's through the years as a means to try and evaluate my idea.
4) I scoured Lands of Intrigue and couldn't find anything about the Herald's in there that led to anything about a "Dark Herald" before, during, or after the Interregnum, or the 10 Black Days of Eleint.
5) I double checked Cloak and Dagger as well as Power of Faerun, and couldn't find anything there, either.
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I'm looking forward to reading responses!
Best regards as always,
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
Edited by - cpthero2 on 10 Sep 2020 08:25:35
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2020 : 10:16:03
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Great Reader Dallison,
quote:
Does he pretend yo be a real herald and then murder royal families or plot their downfall.
I'm really uncertain if that was his actual title as a herald, hence the quotations around that title in Code of the Harper's (CotH), on pg. 75. I think it was his "infamous" title afterwards, but ultimately that is just a guess from me.
I think it was Teremir II who, as per the Grand History of the Realms (GotH), pg. 84, restored the Bormul Dynasty by killing/murdering Coram II and restoring the line of the Bormul family.
quote:
And why did teremir 2 choose to become a bad herald. Did he blame them for his misfortune, was a herald complicit in his downfall.
Assuming I am correct in my assumption it is Teremir II, it is likely just corruption and a desire for power. It was identified in the Lands of Intrigue, on pg. 4, that,
quote:
King Teremir, the first monarch after the Queen's era, was a fifth son; his kingdom was torn by strife within 25 months of his ascension. King Coram II was also a fifth son, and he was killed by King Teremir II in a coup after five years on the throne.
What I find interesting about this is that it specifically mentions King Teremir II (who was only on the throne for one year, from 1070 to 1071) having committed a coup. He wasn't in the ruling family at the time of King Coram II ruling, hence the coup. So, it's certainly possible he could have been from the position preceding what is currently in Tethyr called the "Title Chancellor." [Lands of Intrigue, LoI, pg. 31}
In that position, which falls under the "Courtly Titles and Positions of Tethyr" section, it goes on to state,
quote:
Title Chancellor: (Lady Aalangama Gulderhom, Countess
of Morninggold) This chancellery records and oversees the ascension of the nobility to hereditary and other titles and claims. It maintains permanent records of the noble families new and old alike, working closely with the Heralds Blue Velvet, Shining Helm, and Thorntree to corroborate such information. This new office has been permanently assigned to the leader of the Order of the Silver Chalice, the knightly order dedicated to the goddess of nobility, Siamorphe. Should questions concerning succession arise, the title chancellor's ruling can only be overturned by the monarch or a majority vote of the monarch's Royal Privy Council. [LOI, pg. 31]
What else I found interesting is a quote from the 2nd edition revised Campaign boxed set, which says,
quote:
Heralds have in the past served as regents for underaged kings and queens, but are forbidden from holding onto that power once a suitable heir is found and from leading attacks directly against other Heralds. There have been abuses of these restrictions in the past, and the High Heralds have proved powerful enough to punish the guilty. [FRCS, 2nd Ed., pg. 26]
I did also find a bit in the LOI that says,
quote:
The only successful descendant of King Teremir was his namesake, his great-grandson Teremir II, from his daughter's line and family. For the course of nine months in the Years of the Spawning and Lions' Roars (Kythorn 1070 to Ches 1071 DR), Teremir the Second ruled Tethyr after his personal duel and slaying of King Coram II. Upon the return of the king's brother Prince Alemander, the Lions' Dynasty once again ruled Tethyr, and a wizard took the throne after slaying all his enemies and those who slew his brother. [LOI, pg. 32]
quote:
It may be that the dark herald was teremir 2, but he may have long since died and been replaced by disgraced members of other dynasties. Not every baddy has to live forever.
Well, that certainly could have happened. The High Herald's likely would have discovered that I feel.
What are your thoughts on my ideas and sources cited above?
Best regards,
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2020 : 11:47:49
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Heralds aren't allowed to rule kingdoms. It can't be Teremir II. I've always taken it - and considered that it was quite clear - that the Dark Herald held sway in 1347-1348 DR after the Ten Black Days of Eleint. Code of the Harpers was written a long time before Lands of Intrigue. Teremir II didn't exist when Ed wrote Code of the Harpers.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2020 : 19:33:18
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Great Reader Dallison,
I like that idea. The mocking moniker makes sense. I just realized in re-reading the appropriate section from CotH, pg. 75, that I didn't take something into account from just above the specifically quoted piece I had, and I feel it is relevant:
quote:
At the bottom of the heraldic hierarchy are the many local Heralds, who dwell all over Faerūn. In some cases these Heralds are subjects of the local crown (as in Cormyr) and in some cases they are independent foes or rivals of the authorities (as in present-day Hillsfar and traditionally in Amn). Local Heralds serve as scribes-clerks for census, tax, and genealogical purposes-designers and regulators of the use of armorial bearings, and criers at tournaments and festivals. They are usually trained, inspected, and chartered by the High Heralds. (If they are not, as happened in the case of the infamous "Dark Herald" of Tethyr, who set himself up as an authority after the fall of the royal family, and was killed a year later-the uniformity of standards, armorial bearings, and fees is threatened.) Even these local offices rapidly accumulate rich traditions and lore.
What I feel is relevant there is specifically, "Local Heralds serve as scribes-clerks for census, tax, and genealogical purposes-designers and regulators of the use of armorial bearings, and criers at tournaments and festivals."
What is interesting about that is lays out exactly what those local Heralds do in their capacity as local Heralds, and sets up the relevant of the next statement, which is: "They are usually trained, inspected, and chartered by the High Heralds. (If they are not, as happened in the case of the infamous "Dark Herald" of Tethyr, who set himself up as an authority after the fall of the royal family, and was killed a year later-the uniformity of standards, armorial bearings, and fees is threatened.)"
What is really important there is that it is told that they are usually trained, etc., but in the case of the Dark Herald, he wasn't. Since the royal family was slain and no one remained except of course different people of different heritage vying for the crown, this establishes that the Dark Herald was in fact a Herald, just not one "trained, inspected, and chartered by the High Heralds."
So, I think I agree with Master Krashos about his point of the publishing dates of the books. It doesn't change anything about Master Krashos' point, but I just thought it was an interesting aspect of at least knowing it was an unregulated Herald that tried to be the man, and got wrecked. lol
Best regards,
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2020 : 19:36:52
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Master Krashos,
Great point on the publishing dates. Thanks for catching that!
It definitely does make sense that it would be during the Interregnum Years, directly after the (10) Black Days of Eleint that is, that the Dark Herald tried to work his magic.
Best regards as always,
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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The Dark Herald - Corrupt Herald
