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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1625 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Sep 2020 : 16:07:07
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Spoiler Alert for Frostmaiden
We finally learn that the Black Obilesks do. They allow characters to time travel or revery a region or world back to a previous state of time, like reverting the world say 1800 back in the past before the Fall of Nethril (which you can potientially avert). These Obilesks are confined to the Forgotten Realms, they can be found on Exandia, Ravenloft, and in Hell. Some where created by Weavers (some believe this refers to the Spellweavers), from whom Vecna stole the scret of making them, who in turn seems to have had the Netherese steal the secret from him, only for the Nethese Obilesks to be stolen after the fall of the Netherese Empire, so that is why these things are on multiple worlds (and hypothetically why they may be different from each other). You add in the Forgotten Realms MtG crossover next year, the fact that the planned D&D movie involves both the Hand & Eye of Vecna and the Forgotten Realms, and it pointing to something big planned.
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2020 : 16:11:59
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So one could in theory undo the Spellplague? |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
Edited by - Brimstone on 07 Sep 2020 16:12:37 |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2020 : 16:20:14
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| The spellweavers would certainly want to undo their history. According to the Ecology of... article (I’m sorry I forgot which issue) of Dragon magazine they’ve wanted to go back to the moments before they destroyed their empire ever since. I skipped 4e for the most part but I think this was also written about there. |
Follow the Maztica (Aztec/Maya) and Anchorome (Indigenous North America) Campaigns on DMsGuild!
The Maztica Campaign
The Anchorome Campaign |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2476 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2020 : 16:31:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
So one could in theory undo the Spellplague?
It wasn't already undone?  |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2020 : 16:38:19
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| I'm not so convinced an actual RSE is coming, since the point of most of them was to sell novels -- and WotC isn't doing novels any more. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2476 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2020 : 16:43:17
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| Unless this may be connected to the plot of the movie, as Gyor suggested. Although, I really doubt that movie will ever see the light of day. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 07 Sep 2020 16:44:13 |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2020 : 16:57:57
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Is it sad that my first reaction was: "not again..."<sigh>
But, it doesn't really matter that much since I determined in my version of the Realms that the Spellplague isn't going to happen, anyway. But that is years away. It is barely up to the early 1370s. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2020 : 19:46:44
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| I’m inclined to like this, but I’m a 4e gal; I like the Netherese as one of the big bads of the setting. No idea why they’re on Exandia or in the Domains of Dread, though. Crossover isn’t really my jam. |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4441 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2020 : 20:23:54
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| Plot device to undo the Sundering, at least that's what I'd do... |
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2020 : 20:48:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Plot device to undo the Sundering, at least that's what I'd do...
Take me to the world where the timeline split with the Sundering. |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11830 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2020 : 21:32:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
The spellweavers would certainly want to undo their history. According to the Ecology of... article (I’m sorry I forgot which issue) of Dragon magazine they’ve wanted to go back to the moments before they destroyed their empire ever since. I skipped 4e for the most part but I think this was also written about there.
Seethyr, isn't this LITERALLY the same plot you have the spellweavers attempting to accomplish over in Anchorome? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3743 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2020 : 00:32:00
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-Very hokey if they literally have an event that goes "Poof, OK everything is back like it used to be in __________ and the last _________ years never actually happened."
-As a background plot device, sounds cool, because time travel was never really presented with as much...gravitas in the Arcane Age books (or was it the Chronomancy book?) as time travel should. The time travel spell was a 9th level spell and had some pretty hard to get components, but it should be more like "whoa" in terms of access and casting. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerûn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerûn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2020 : 00:51:29
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The best I make of this is that the "Black Obilesks" as described allows the DM to go back in campaign to before any change not liked. That is given permission to reset to home game, or maybe cause new players to a before Time of Troubles, Sundering or other RSE.
Run your own game if players want to change it I guess could be a player option. Having it available does not mean a PC will use it after all.
There is also the other thing, given a chance to change the future... in many cases in fiction fail with those trying a TPK. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2020 : 01:19:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-Very hokey if they literally have an event that goes "Poof, OK everything is back like it used to be in __________ and the last _________ years never actually happened."
Is that really all so different from the Second Sundering? |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2020 : 01:23:27
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| So, I just had an interesting thought: what if this is a lead into 6e? They have about a 6 year spacing on editions and 5e came out in 2014. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1625 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2020 : 01:27:46
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The one Obilesk that can be used sends the players so far back in time (1800 years), it is, long before 1e FR, so that doesn't work as an edition reset at least on a canon level. Nor would a canon reset of FR make sense make sense in the context of these Obilesks existing in other settings. What ever plans WotC has for the Obilesks its not just local to FR, its multiversal.
Right before they are releasing the Forgotten Realms MtG set, they are releasing Time Spiral Remastered, which was the set with all kinds of temporal chaos, like creature appearing from the past and other creatures and places disappearing. It ended with an event called the Mending which changed how Planeswalkers worked and removed most interplanar travel besides Planeswalkers.
This might not be an accident. I think the main goal of the Obilesks is to trigger a time spiral like event throughout the D&D multiverse, while something simular happens in the MtG multiverse (perhaps related to the original time spiral some how). |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2020 : 01:30:26
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
The spellweavers would certainly want to undo their history. According to the Ecology of... article (I’m sorry I forgot which issue) of Dragon magazine they’ve wanted to go back to the moments before they destroyed their empire ever since. I skipped 4e for the most part but I think this was also written about there.
Seethyr, isn't this LITERALLY the same plot you have the spellweavers attempting to accomplish over in Anchorome?
LOL yep, I wasn't going to say it. |
Follow the Maztica (Aztec/Maya) and Anchorome (Indigenous North America) Campaigns on DMsGuild!
The Maztica Campaign
The Anchorome Campaign |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2476 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2020 : 01:33:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Plot device to undo the Sundering, at least that's what I'd do...
Count me in! |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1625 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2020 : 01:35:15
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quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
So, I just had an interesting thought: what if this is a lead into 6e? They have about a 6 year spacing on editions and 5e came out in 2014.
Maybe not 6e, but 5.4e certainly, that is what Tasha's Cauldron of Everything is in essence. The variant class features are functionally fixes and fun options for classes, the Lineage system is the same for races, there is a side kick system including playable sidekick classes, a setting neutral version of the Artificer, Psionic subclasses, new spells, including 9 new conjuration spells that radically change how summoning magic works (although they are in addition to and not a replacement for stuff like Conjure Woodland Creatures). New feats, they are removing racial prequistes for feats, and so on. So its all opinional, but its a radical restructuring of the game, but still requires the PHB. |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1625 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2020 : 01:39:30
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| Its not just one thing, its the convergence of all the puzzle peices one has to take into account. |
Edited by - Gyor on 08 Sep 2020 01:40:52 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3743 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2020 : 01:55:05
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quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
Is that really all so different from the Second Sundering?
-Whatever the Second Sundering was maintained the well-accepted setting alterations and plotlines while reversing a lot of the not well-accepted ones, whereas a hokey time travel plot device is basically just saying F it and throwing the baby out with the bathwater. But yeah, without accompanying books/articles/sourcebooks/whatever following and explaining the changes, it would be more or less the same thing, except you'd have the restoration of the original, as opposed to the development of a hybrid. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerûn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerûn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2020 : 02:04:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
Is that really all so different from the Second Sundering?
-Whatever the Second Sundering was maintained the well-accepted setting alterations and plotlines while reversing a lot of the not well-accepted ones, whereas a hokey time travel plot device is basically just saying F it and throwing the baby out with the bathwater. But yeah, without accompanying books/articles/sourcebooks/whatever following and explaining the changes, it would be more or less the same thing, except you'd have the restoration of the original, as opposed to the development of a hybrid.
I consider "Mulhorand came back and went back to normal and the Imaskari vanished again" the same kind of hokey as using time travel would be, personally. |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2020 : 03:58:45
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Idea, go back in time and strangle Baby Elminster... |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
Edited by - Brimstone on 08 Sep 2020 03:59:00 |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3806 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2020 : 04:20:01
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quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
Is that really all so different from the Second Sundering?
-Whatever the Second Sundering was maintained the well-accepted setting alterations and plotlines while reversing a lot of the not well-accepted ones, whereas a hokey time travel plot device is basically just saying F it and throwing the baby out with the bathwater. But yeah, without accompanying books/articles/sourcebooks/whatever following and explaining the changes, it would be more or less the same thing, except you'd have the restoration of the original, as opposed to the development of a hybrid.
I consider "Mulhorand came back and went back to normal and the Imaskari vanished again" the same kind of hokey as using time travel would be, personally.
That could be said for tons of the 4e changes too--specifically the one that was reversed with this.
It frankly eludes me why people keep insisting that FR changes weren't just designers saying "I want this to happen", and having it happen with some cheap, super handwavy change. Of course, with no regard for whether that fit into the lore or was decent development or not, and with no regard for actually sitting down and exploring the long term of consequences of the super cheesy plot they came up with. At least since WotSQ (and this is from someone who joined at the end of 4e).
Everyone has their favorite version of FR, but let's not delude ourselves into thinking that there's even a little bit of credibility left into how changes are handled. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 08 Sep 2020 05:10:34 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2020 : 08:08:37
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| Don’t hold out hope for a total reset; the genie’s out of the bottle on tieflings and dragonborn as core races, they’re inseparable from what D&D means to an entire generation of players. |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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Swordsage
Learned Scribe
149 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2020 : 09:22:46
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| And here it is: the final grand cop out from a moribund WotC and their by-the-numbers suite of designers without a clue. Now they get to ignore everything ever written in not just the Realms but across the D&D firmament and point to their deux ex machina obelisks as some all-affirming design trope. Uninspired, lazy, and insulting. The Realms just lost its final shred of consistency and internal coherence. If it wasn’t so saddening it would make an impressive farce of legendary proportions. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2020 : 09:34:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'm not so convinced an actual RSE is coming, since the point of most of them was to sell novels -- and WotC isn't doing novels any more.
My understanding was the point of them was to link canon "continuity" between game editions. Although, yeah, they were each accompanied by one or more novel trilogies which became cornerstones of later Realmslore.
I think the novels sold (or didn't sell) based on other merits (or lack thereof) - regardless whether they involved RSE. New blow-up-the-world threats or even the actual act of blow-up-the-world is always sensational enough to bump audience interest. But plenty of FR novels sold well by being about smaller parts of the Realms which surrounded iconic characters. Or by carrying the names of popularly recognized authors.
I wonder if WotC makes more money from the game materials or from the novels? |
[/Ayrik] |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2020 : 10:53:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'm not so convinced an actual RSE is coming, since the point of most of them was to sell novels -- and WotC isn't doing novels any more.
My understanding was the point of them was to link canon "continuity" between game editions. Although, yeah, they were each accompanied by one or more novel trilogies which became cornerstones of later Realmslore.
I think the novels sold (or didn't sell) based on other merits (or lack thereof) - regardless whether they involved RSE. New blow-up-the-world threats or even the actual act of blow-up-the-world is always sensational enough to bump audience interest. But plenty of FR novels sold well by being about smaller parts of the Realms which surrounded iconic characters. Or by carrying the names of popularly recognized authors.
I wonder if WotC makes more money from the game materials or from the novels?
Novel-wise, they did a couple RSEs to link editions... All but one of the rest were to sell books.
I don't have the quote on hand, but I do recall a statement from someone -- an author, as I recall -- that the RSE books generally sold better than the non-RSE books.
And a former TSR/WotC staffer said at GenCon that the books were considerably more profitable than the game material -- but it was the "wrong type" of money because the company considered itself a gaming company and not a publishing company. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 08 Sep 2020 10:56:50 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4441 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2020 : 11:16:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Swordsage
And here it is: the final grand cop out from a moribund WotC and their by-the-numbers suite of designers without a clue. Now they get to ignore everything ever written in not just the Realms but across the D&D firmament and point to their deux ex machina obelisks as some all-affirming design trope. Uninspired, lazy, and insulting. The Realms just lost its final shred of consistency and internal coherence. If it wasn’t so saddening it would make an impressive farce of legendary proportions.
1) you can always ignore it.
2) apparently some people are enjoying the direction WotC has taken D&D, it IS the highest selling Edition to date, even surpassing TSRs despite their spotty bookkeeping back in the day.
3) why not wait more official info before going straight Doom and gloom? |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2020 : 14:43:52
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quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
Don’t hold out hope for a total reset; the genie’s out of the bottle on tieflings and dragonborn as core races, they’re inseparable from what D&D means to an entire generation of players.
2e Planescape established tieflings as a playable race so they were around back then so that isn't a problem. Dragonborn COULD be brought in via the experimentation of the Netherese (specifically house Orogoth) in trying to assume some of the characteristics of dragons (they would have come into existence around -2300 DR). |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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It looked like a new Realms Shaking Event Coming
