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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Aug 2020 : 06:42:43
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What's the big deal? God forbid a child learn about D&D. I'd love to hear why this is any weirder than action figures for the old D&D cartoon.
Also, how is this Realms related?
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4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2020 : 07:47:09
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| 'm sure Gygax "turned over in his grave" long ago. Several editions back. When Wizbro quietly but firmly shifted away from "it's your game, make up whatever rules your group likes, be fair and consistent, but anything goes so be creative and have fun!" to "buy our official D&D products to get the latest official rules, anything else can break the game and isn't really kosher". |
[/Ayrik] |
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2020 : 07:55:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
'm sure Gygax "turned over in his grave" long ago. Several editions back. When Wizbro quietly but firmly shifted away from "it's your game, make up whatever rules your group likes, be fair and consistent, but anything goes so be creative and have fun!" to "buy our official D&D products to get the latest official rules, anything else can break the game and isn't really kosher".
He can rotate at supersonic speeds for all I care. The man was a libertarian evangelical who often dabbled in deeply racist thought. |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2020 : 08:20:20
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| Hasbro is a toy company. If they produce toys that will get kids to play 5E more power to them... |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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deserk
Learned Scribe
Norway
238 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2020 : 11:55:07
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quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
He can rotate at supersonic speeds for all I care. The man was a libertarian evangelical who often dabbled in deeply racist thought.
That is such an incredibly ignorant thing to say. I should hope you don't get judged as harshly for failing to live up to moral standards of future generations. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2020 : 12:13:54
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| lol, this reminds me of something I got from a friend. I had backed the reaper kickstarter and picked up two of the main package, so I gave him some of my duplicates. He had actually backed a "dungeons & doggies" kickstarter on a lark with dogs setup like PC's (i.e. a wizard dog, etc...), so he gave me it. I kept thinking, I may make use of it as familiars. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2020 : 12:39:55
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This was announced back in May. I shared it here, then.
As for myself, I don't get it. I don't see the appeal of My Little Pony, and I certainly don't see a reason to do a crossover, there...
But it's not something I'm going to say too much about. I don't have reason to be bothered by it, and since I'm not the target market, I can ignore it. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2020 : 12:55:31
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| This is absolutely something I would get for my daughters. Not for me, for my six year old that loves My Little Pony and I really want them to play with me one day. Also, God bless Gary Gygax, creator of the greatest game ever to grace this planet. |
Follow the Maztica (Aztec/Maya) and Anchorome (Indigenous North America) Campaigns on DMsGuild!
The Maztica Campaign
The Anchorome Campaign |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2020 : 13:08:27
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Hasbro owns WotC, and through them, D&D.
Hasbro owns My Little Pony.
They have licensed the world and characters to Riverhorse in the UK to produce an official RPG that is age-appropriate (and, a LOT of fun). Some of the published adventures actually recreate classic D&D adventures in the new world/format. I highly recommend it to parent gamers and non-parent gamers alike! |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
Edited by - Ashe Ravenheart on 10 Aug 2020 16:33:44 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3741 Posts |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4441 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2020 : 14:06:28
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Both my daughters have interest in this, one has played a bit (she's 11) and the other is younger (5) but something like this would surely get them to sit down and play, I'd be all for running it for them too.
Id have to find a homebrewed Character Sheet and let them color it which is something I wish D&D would invest in (coloring books with heroes as the portrait) but it would be a blast!
Also, anything to get kids into D&D and have a great first impression is something I think is a tremendous idea, don't know why people would be against that (Gygax included) |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2020 : 14:53:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
This was announced back in May. I shared it here, then.
As for myself, I don't get it. I don't see the appeal of My Little Pony, and I certainly don't see a reason to do a crossover, there...
But it's not something I'm going to say too much about. I don't have reason to be bothered by it, and since I'm not the target market, I can ignore it.
I can see the market only because I've literally poured out my dwarven forge dungeon and cavern pieces for my fiancé's 7 year old (at the time) daughter and "played" a made up game with her that she affectionately called "dungeon". I poured out my plastic D&D minis and let her bring her tinker bell fairies to the table to be the heros. Gameplay was simple, I had her make up what her characters would do and then I just made up a number on a d20 that she had to roll higher than in order for it to work. I had a lot of fun with her because I added in "rules" like "well, the dungeon has to have a toilet and a kitchen", and she would agree and proceed to find something to make it happen. Its 5 years or so later, and I miss those days as she enters her teen years and begins to develop attitude when asked to do anything (even cleaning up her own mess). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2020 : 14:59:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Both my daughters have interest in this, one has played a bit (she's 11) and the other is younger (5) but something like this would surely get them to sit down and play, I'd be all for running it for them too.
Id have to find a homebrewed Character Sheet and let them color it which is something I wish D&D would invest in (coloring books with heroes as the portrait) but it would be a blast!
Also, anything to get kids into D&D and have a great first impression is something I think is a tremendous idea, don't know why people would be against that (Gygax included)
On a coloring book, one of the odd things that I've put money out for was the order of the stick coloring book. Granted that's extremely simplistic, but I'm a sucker for anything OOTS. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2020 : 15:05:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Both my daughters have interest in this, one has played a bit (she's 11) and the other is younger (5) but something like this would surely get them to sit down and play, I'd be all for running it for them too.
Id have to find a homebrewed Character Sheet and let them color it which is something I wish D&D would invest in (coloring books with heroes as the portrait) but it would be a blast!
Also, anything to get kids into D&D and have a great first impression is something I think is a tremendous idea, don't know why people would be against that (Gygax included)
This is a large part of why I don't find it objectionable. It comes across as weird, to me, and. I'm generally not in favor of mixing IPs... But it doesn't bother me enough to complain, and I certainly can't object to bringing in more players. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 10 Aug 2020 15:05:59 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2020 : 16:32:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Both my daughters have interest in this, one has played a bit (she's 11) and the other is younger (5) but something like this would surely get them to sit down and play, I'd be all for running it for them too.
Id have to find a homebrewed Character Sheet and let them color it which is something I wish D&D would invest in (coloring books with heroes as the portrait) but it would be a blast!
Also, anything to get kids into D&D and have a great first impression is something I think is a tremendous idea, don't know why people would be against that (Gygax included)
*cough*Official Character Sheet*cough* |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
Edited by - Ashe Ravenheart on 10 Aug 2020 16:33:27 |
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2020 : 18:06:26
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quote:
Originally posted by deserk
quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
He can rotate at supersonic speeds for all I care. The man was a libertarian evangelical who often dabbled in deeply racist thought.
That is such an incredibly ignorant thing to say. I should hope you don't get judged as harshly for failing to live up to moral standards of future generations.
Gary described John Chivington, a man Wikipedia describes as a mass murderer in his opening paragraph, as an example to follow for a paladin, and drew explicit parallels between his slaughter of Native Americans and how D&D characters have a moral obligation to kill orc children. Im not judging him by the impossibly woke standards of today, Im saying racist genocide is bad. |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
572 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2020 : 19:38:38
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quote:
Originally posted by deserk
That is such an incredibly ignorant thing to say. I should hope you don't get judged as harshly for failing to live up to moral standards of future generations.
At the risk of extending an offtopic aside that can descend into places that would get this topic locked, I just want to point out there there were PLENTY of people in Gygax's generation (and earlier generations) who called out and opposed the behavior Keftiu is describing. It's disingenuous to excuse the behavior as if no one opposed those ideas at the time.
As for My Little Pony D&D toys, I don't see an issue. They're not inserting Equestria into Abeir-Toril, and even if they made a kid-targeted D&D setting *in* Equestria, I wouldn't see an issue unless it was specifically preventing publication of something of more interest to the general D&D audience or altering an existing setting to make room for it.
Jeff |
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not." |
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2020 : 20:04:03
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| The folks opposed to this really do read as a kind of bizarre gross, now girls will get into our secret club! sentiment in a way that feels very strange for a game old enough to have grandchildren. |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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deserk
Learned Scribe
Norway
238 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2020 : 22:28:55
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quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
Gary described John Chivington, a man Wikipedia describes as a mass murderer in his opening paragraph, as an example to follow for a paladin, and drew explicit parallels between his slaughter of Native Americans and how D&D characters have a moral obligation to kill orc children. Im not judging him by the impossibly woke standards of today, Im saying racist genocide is bad.
So I don't think Gygax's views on alignment and paladins specifically stand out very well today, but the way you are framing it Keftiu is really exaggerated and dishonest, because you are giving him a lot ungenerous assertions, implying that he felt that "killing orc children is a moral obligation" and "John Chivington is an exemplary for a paladin". He did provide justification for executing evil captives, but he did not say it was an obligation. He merely quoted John Chivington off-handedly "nits make lice" as a reason why not to spare evil prisoners (because they might repeat their evil acts), but he didn't say that historical figure was exemplary of a paladin.
I don't agree with his conclusions on alignment and the duties of paladins. He had a very dualistic view of Good and Evil that has been prevalent among the D&D community for a long time and in fantasy literature. Something I've never been a fan of, but I understand it. It's quite Lord of the Rings-like, and ultimately the worlds of DnD are massively influenced by LOTR.
Simplifying his views down to racism is quite dishonest and lazy since he was purely talking about evil fantasy races not RW ethnicities which you seem to imply that he does. And also I do really dislike people maligning figures of the past while taking advantage of their work. That is a real failure of moral integrity, which should be significant when someone who feels confident enough to be a moral judge and condemn others to damnation. He is one of the core reasons D&D exists, and for that he does deserve some credit and respect. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2020 : 22:30:12
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quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
The folks opposed to this really do read as a kind of bizarre gross, now girls will get into our secret club! sentiment in a way that feels very strange for a game old enough to have grandchildren.
I think it's not as much a "ew, girls!" thing as is the sheer incongruity of mixing the two IPs. D&D is generally considered to be for teenagers and adults, and My Little Pony is for younger children. The two are not an obvious mix.
This certainly discounts the fact that MLP has a devoted following outside the young children demographic... But I think that's where the hangup is.
Honestly, I think this is more targeted at the brony crowd than being a gateway for kids to get into D&D. I think they want the bronies and if they can get some kids, too, it's a happy coincidence. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Renin
Learned Scribe
USA
290 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2020 : 23:24:30
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This makes me laugh. I've got a bud who might get them for his 2 daughters. I think it's fun and worth a good laugh.
Cross platforming also brings more awareness and product acceptability. |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1536 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2020 : 23:31:41
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Why aren't they using the current MLP generation? Twilight Sparkle is THE example of a high Int low Wis character.
Twilight: "I don't have a weekly update for my benign godlike all-loving teacher! Oh noes, I guess I'll mindrape an entire town and make a problem to solve! THIS IS AN INTELLIGENT MOVE THAT WILL NO WAY BACKFIRE ON ME!" |
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see
Learned Scribe
235 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2020 : 00:10:02
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quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Why aren't they using the current MLP generation?
Almost certainly because River Horse got an exclusivity clause in the licensing contract for Tails of Equestria that restricted the ability of Hasbro to make or license competing products.
I mean, I haven't seen any official statement to that effect, nor do I have access to the contract's terms, but if you're going to pay Hasbro for the RPG rights for an IP, it would be plain foolish not to insist on those rights being exclusive for the term of the license. |
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see
Learned Scribe
235 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2020 : 00:13:20
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quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragonAs for My Little Pony D&D toys, I don't see an issue. They're not inserting Equestria into Abeir-Toril
Though it would be pretty easy to swap out "Osse" for it. |
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
572 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2020 : 04:16:14
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quote:
Originally posted by see
quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragonAs for My Little Pony D&D toys, I don't see an issue. They're not inserting Equestria into Abeir-Toril
Though it would be pretty easy to swap out "Osse" for it.
My point was that Forgotten Realms fans would have some good reasons to oppose this release if Hasbro/WotC was forcing it into the Realms (or another established setting), but they're not.
Jeff |
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not." |
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see
Learned Scribe
235 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2020 : 07:01:32
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quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon
quote:
Originally posted by see
Though it would be pretty easy to swap out "Osse" for it.
My point was that Forgotten Realms fans would have some good reasons to oppose this release if Hasbro/WotC was forcing it into the Realms (or another established setting), but they're not.
And mine is that swapping Equestria in would not, in fact, be any more deserving a hostile reaction than, say, the case of having a random freelancer for a WotC website feature grabbing an entirely undeveloped continent and unilaterally declaring the whole place Yet Another Direct Real World Analogue. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4441 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2020 : 08:18:47
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quote:
Originally posted by see
And mine is that swapping Equestria in would not, in fact, be any more deserving a hostile reaction than, say, the case of having a random freelancer for a WotC website feature grabbing an entirely undeveloped continent and unilaterally declaring the whole place Yet Another Direct Real World Analogue.
Ugh, could we NOT have another one of those please? I'm fairly certain almost all aspects of Humanitys Earth-based cultures have been transported, unfortunately at that, to the Realms in some supplement or another over time.
Honestly, Equestria pushed into Osse doesn't bother me one bit. I could see the power of a being like Princess Celestia using her Abilities to shield out what she can of external hardships found on Faerūn, Abeir/Maztica, and Kara-Tur. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4441 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2020 : 09:04:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
*cough*Official Character Sheet*cough*
Thank ya kindly! |
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Demzer
Senior Scribe
877 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2020 : 10:36:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Ugh, could we NOT have another one of those please?
Eh, I don't think you run that risk under what seems to be the current editorial direction. Doesn't seem to be any reason why WotC should just start to randomly detail continents it didn't give two s***s about for 20-30 years.
On topic, I don't see a problem there. I'ts obvious the caveat is "until it becomes so pervasive you find MyLittlePony references everywhere in the Realms" but I don't think is necessary to make that caveat. Or rather it should be made for each new thing coming out "OotA? Ok but let's not have demons all the time, SKT ok but no infinite giants" etc ... (Come to think of it, someone using the caveat above might have saved us from the Shar/shades onslaught ...)
Also, during the Rise of the Underdark days of ... 4e? ... the DDO MMORPG had an expansion set in Cormyr and the local Underdark and the loot of the capstone ("raid") battle with Lolth had a couple of weapons with names/references to MyLittlePny (might be more but I'm not an expert so I don't know if there are others):
https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Twilight,_Element_of_Magic
https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Celestia,_Brightest_Star_of_Day
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1536 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2020 : 11:47:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by see
And mine is that swapping Equestria in would not, in fact, be any more deserving a hostile reaction than, say, the case of having a random freelancer for a WotC website feature grabbing an entirely undeveloped continent and unilaterally declaring the whole place Yet Another Direct Real World Analogue.
Ugh, could we NOT have another one of those please? I'm fairly certain almost all aspects of Humanitys Earth-based cultures have been transported, unfortunately at that, to the Realms in some supplement or another over time.
Honestly, Equestria pushed into Osse doesn't bother me one bit. I could see the power of a being like Princess Celestia using her Abilities to shield out what she can of external hardships found on Faerūn, Abeir/Maztica, and Kara-Tur.
Canon Celestia flip flops from being a compassionate demigoddess to a blithering incompetent to being the living embodiment of nepotism. I like Sunbutt, but there's no way she's in any way prepared for dealing with the Realms. Canon Celestia couldn't defeat Sombra, and an alternate timeline shows him conquering the Crystal Empire and mounting a successful offensive against Equestria. Celestia's go-to solution for every problem is "throw Twilight Sparkle at it", which explains why Bookhorse Purplesmart is a neurotic wreck.
Celestia's power also comes from her innate tie to the sun. She's a powerful pony, but (ignoring her dominion over the sun, which ties to her cutie mark) 'magic' in Equestria is certainly tamer than anything in D&D. The most impressive feat of combat magic is from Twilight, and she was juiced up on the power of her senior princesses.
Sunbutt would just be another Alustriel, unless she's willing to throw down with Lathander. Luna's in an arguably worse place; she's treading on Shar's domain. Cadance's domain is in kind of a weird place, since she's married and doesn't actually seem to rule over love the way the Diarchs claim the celestial bodies.
Twilight being the Princess of Magic in a world where you can't trip over a rock without irritating some ancient all-powerful lich is also going to cause problems.
Honestly, the best way to deal with it is to have Equestria being another Crystal sphere, with the Diarchs and company being the newcomers to the Planes. |
Edited by - LordofBones on 11 Aug 2020 11:49:10 |
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oh god no
