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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Jul 2020 : 12:17:06
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I'm not a catholic, nor particular fluent in real world Christianity to any depth (I probably know as much about Norse myth as Christian). So, when I saw that the recent Netflix series called "Warrior Nun" had a bestial fiend called a tarask… I immediately thought "tarrasque"... and then I wondered if they made up the name/adapted it from D&D, or if its a real world word that D&D appropriated (because we've seen things go in both directions) and possibly changed the spelling of. So, what I'm asking is if anyone here is fluent enough in the Christian religion to say whether there is some kind of "demon" like creature called a tarask? I'm only asking out of curiosity, and while not "realms" related.... we're probably the best community to ask other than trying to find some religious group that might get actually offended by the question and/or be riled up by someone having made the series in the first place.
I don't want to reveal much more than that about the series. Please don't reveal anything more for those who might want to watch it, and its only been out a few days. I will say the series is interesting, but not on my "OMG you have to watch that" list like game of thrones was. But, if you're looking for something to pass a day with....
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2020 : 12:53:50
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Yup, both the Tarrasque and the Tarask is is based on a real creature, if from Christian folklore - the dragon/monster Tarasque:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarasque |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2020 : 14:15:31
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D&D has lifted a lot of monsters from real-world legends/myths. Sometimes they stay fairly true to the source, though other times they deviate wildly.
I'd never heard of this Christian Tarasque; it may be more of a regional thing. |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2020 : 14:50:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
D&D has lifted a lot of monsters from real-world legends/myths. Sometimes they stay fairly true to the source, though other times they deviate wildly.
I'd never heard of this Christian Tarasque; it may be more of a regional thing.
Well in the legend, the Tarasque was tamed by Saint Martha, aka sister of Lazarus, and was stated to be offspring of Leviathan (which is even apparently translated into the Realms, as Brian R. James stated the Tarrasque of Toril is the child of Lotan the Leviathan and Ubtao), hence I counted it as part of Christian folklore.
The Tarasque is probably though a leftover of non-Abrahamic beliefs and stories, but it's known form is a result of syncretism with Christian elements. |
Edited by - Baltas on 09 Jul 2020 14:54:20 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2020 : 15:07:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Baltas
Yup, both the Tarrasque and the Tarask is is based on a real creature, if from Christian folklore - the dragon/monster Tarasque:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarasque
Ok, thanks, I'm continually surprised by some of the legends that we find that can be linked back to this game via someone who read something somewhere. Its sometimes surprising how they can take on a life of their own and become a totally different beast. In this instance, the original as some kind of giant dragon-turtle like creature, which became the giant kaiju which is in D&D, to the version in this series which is more a slightly larger than human sized spiky demon being. I wonder truly how many creature names from D&D can be absolutely not related to some other real world legend versus the number that can. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2020 : 14:39:28
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Baltas
Yup, both the Tarrasque and the Tarask is is based on a real creature, if from Christian folklore - the dragon/monster Tarasque:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarasque
Ok, thanks, I'm continually surprised by some of the legends that we find that can be linked back to this game via someone who read something somewhere. Its sometimes surprising how they can take on a life of their own and become a totally different beast. In this instance, the original as some kind of giant dragon-turtle like creature, which became the giant kaiju which is in D&D, to the version in this series which is more a slightly larger than human sized spiky demon being. I wonder truly how many creature names from D&D can be absolutely not related to some other real world legend versus the number that can.
That's one thing I've noticed, myself: in artwork from hundreds of years ago showing dragons, the dragon usually isn't all that big. Since Smaug, though, dragons are huge. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2020 : 15:14:42
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Well yes, the dragons are often the size of a horse, or smaller in Antique, Medieval and Early Modern artworks.
While some are connected to possibly reports of crocodiles, really large snakes or bones of prehistoric animals (hence the less humongous proportions), sometimes the dragons size, is not meant to be representative of reality - as in Antique and Medieval artworks, the god, hero or saint, being comparable or even much larger than the dragon, is symbolic, of the god, hero or saint's spiritual greatness, equaling or dwarfing that of the dragon (who is often a being a foul, small spirit).
This is visible in depiction of the dragons in art, not matching their size depicted in literature, often to a ridiculous degree - foe example, the painted depiction of Typhon in Classic Mythology, that have him as comparable to Zeus in size, but in reality he was described as being much bigger - described to being from miles to thousands of miles in height and length.
Another example, Jörmungandr/The Midgard Serpent is also described as absolutely colossal, apable of encircling the world (which was at least to Norse as big as Europe, Western Asia, North Africa and latter on parts of Greenland and North America), a being thousands of miles long, but depicted most often as not much bigger than Thor.
Leviathan (the Tarasque's parent) was described as comparable to a whale, or much bigger - eating a whale daily according to Midrash.
Satan as the Great Red Dragon, is big enough to swept one third of the stars from the skies (with the then current astronomic knowledge, people knowing the stars are on an inside of sphere with a radius of hundreds of millions of miles.) Yet he is comparable or dwarfed by Archangel Michael (again though, you might argue Michael himself grew to such colossal size, but still) |
Edited by - Baltas on 10 Jul 2020 15:29:31 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2020 : 15:44:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Baltas
Yup, both the Tarrasque and the Tarask is is based on a real creature, if from Christian folklore - the dragon/monster Tarasque:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarasque
Ok, thanks, I'm continually surprised by some of the legends that we find that can be linked back to this game via someone who read something somewhere. Its sometimes surprising how they can take on a life of their own and become a totally different beast. In this instance, the original as some kind of giant dragon-turtle like creature, which became the giant kaiju which is in D&D, to the version in this series which is more a slightly larger than human sized spiky demon being. I wonder truly how many creature names from D&D can be absolutely not related to some other real world legend versus the number that can.
That's one thing I've noticed, myself: in artwork from hundreds of years ago showing dragons, the dragon usually isn't all that big. Since Smaug, though, dragons are huge.
Hmmm, Wooly, that's an interesting observation. I've been so caught up in the modern works I'd tangentially noticed it (such as pictures o some dragonslayer… maybe St. George... lancing a dragon that seems smaller than his horse), but it hadn't sunk in that it was prevalent in the old drawings. The norse stuff though (IIRC) seems to hint at larger beasts (or perhaps its only re-interpretations of old lore that came about later). I wonder if there's any overarching scheme we might see with this (i.e. dragons of the Vikings are big, but dragons of western Europe are small maybe)? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2020 : 15:47:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Baltas
Well yes, the dragons are often the size of a horse, or smaller in Antique, Medieval and Early Modern artworks.
While some are connected to possibly reports of crocodiles, really large snakes or bones of prehistoric animals (hence the less humongous proportions), sometimes the dragons size, is not meant to be representative of reality - as in Antique and Medieval artworks, the god, hero or saint, being comparable or even much larger than the dragon, is symbolic, of the god, hero or saint's spiritual greatness, equaling or dwarfing that of the dragon (who is often a being a foul, small spirit).
This is visible in depiction of the dragons in art, not matching their size depicted in literature, often to a ridiculous degree - foe example, the painted depiction of Typhon in Classic Mythology, that have him as comparable to Zeus in size, but in reality he was described as being much bigger - described to being from miles to thousands of miles in height and length.
Another example, Jörmungandr/The Midgard Serpent is also described as absolutely colossal, apable of encircling the world (which was at least to Norse as big as Europe, Western Asia, North Africa and latter on parts of Greenland and North America), a being thousands of miles long, but depicted most often as not much bigger than Thor.
Leviathan (the Tarasque's parent) was described as comparable to a whale, or much bigger - eating a whale daily according to Midrash.
Satan as the Great Red Dragon, is big enough to swept one third of the stars from the skies (with the then current astronomic knowledge, people knowing the stars are on an inside of sphere with a radius of hundreds of millions of miles.) Yet he is comparable or dwarfed by Archangel Michael (again though, you might argue Michael himself grew to such colossal size, but still)
Hmmm, another good point... so perhaps its artistic license by the drawer versus the artistic wording of the writers. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Name of a creature in Warrior Nun - Tarask
