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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1288 Posts |
 Posted - 26 May 2020 : 16:21:32
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| Yes please. Love reading about people's data mining the novels. Would be good to see a list. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1288 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2020 : 21:07:25
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| I think Darkwalker on Moonshae was first? However, I hate that series so please do start with Crystal Shard. :) |
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ElfBane
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2020 : 22:51:02
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Darkwalker on Moonshae was 1987. The Crystal Shard was 1988.
@Gary... What type of order are you going to read them? I wouldn't go by strict order-of-publication. I would go by series... because I think you get a better grasp of that part of the FR that way. But you pays your money,,,.
Be aware that if you are going to read ALL of the RAS novels first, you will be hunkered down for a while!! Keep in mind that a lot of RAS novels are still popular enough for public libraries to still carry them. That will save you some money, because you will need plenty of money to read all of the FR novel series. |
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maransreth
Learned Scribe
Australia
157 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2020 : 07:28:31
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quote:
Originally posted by ElfBane
Be aware that if you are going to read ALL of the RAS novels first, you will be hunkered down for a while!! Keep in mind that a lot of RAS novels are still popular enough for public libraries to still carry them. That will save you some money, because you will need plenty of money to read all of the FR novel series.
Unless like some of us you have been collecting the novels since they first appeared.
The only novels i am missing are since part way through 4e. Couldnt stand the system and the few books I read were not very good. I did however keep reading Greenwood and Salvatore books, plus the 6 part series to kick off 5e, but they were all from the local library.
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BenN
Senior Scribe
Japan
382 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2020 : 08:12:40
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This should be fun! A bit like reading "Steve! Don't eat it"
http://www.thesneeze.com/steve-dont-eat-it/
I can't wait until he reads the Lady Penitent Series...... 
Edit:
Just kidding! 
The above only applies to some FR novels. I love anything by Elaine Cunningham, Erin M. Evans, and Erik Scott de Bie, as well as a lot of the stories by Richard Baker, Troy Denning and Richard Lee Byers. |
Edited by - BenN on 27 May 2020 08:20:51 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2020 : 09:19:10
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Well i'm fairly certain this wont be a pleasure for me. I'm not going to intentionally review the novels (i would be incredibly biased), its just more of a list of important points and passages from the novels that contain what i would consider to be realmslore of a sort, with a few thoughts of my own.
Darkwalker
This novel contains no lore on the wider realms or even on the rest of the moonshae isles. Lore on corwell and the places in the novel is lacking, often with little more than a single descriptive paragraph that is never revisited later.
Moonshae Isles
Halflings were one of the original inhabitants of the Moonshaes, along with dwarves and llewyrr. Halflings have since spread all over the Moonshaes.
Firbolgs were the first servants of the Beast (Kazgoroth), cousins to Kazgoroth, their ancestors were pulled from the sea and brought to the Moonshaes (does this mean they were aquatic in origin or they came from across the Sea of Swords and so originated on mainland Faerun???).
Caer Callidyrr is located on Westshae (is Westshae an old name for the Isle of Alaron, should probably be discounted as Callidyrr is in the east, unless it is in relation to the talfir originating on Faerun and so Westshae is the most western shore of the talfir lands way back in the past???)
Northmen
Northman language full of yerg and url sounds
Bloodriders led by Laric. Personal guard of Grunnarch the Red, 100 riders strong (appears to be a mercenary group of cavalry that is unusual among the northmen???)
Thelgaar Ironhand, Thelgaar the invincible. Banner is a crimson dragon emblazoned on a black banner
Grunnarch the Red. Banner is a scarlet sword
Raag Hammerstaad. Banner is a blue whale
Ironkeep, a black rock fortress (is the black rock significant, an unusual rocktype???)
Thelgaar’s harpoon, black steel, thick as a giant’s wrist, long as a longship’s oar, barbed and poisoned (a new candidate for a magical item probably of more ancient origin as the northmen are not great smiths or enchanters???)
Deathheads – northmen name for undead
Raag Hammerstaad killed during battle of Caer Corwell
Corwell
Lowhill, a community of halfling burrows a mile from Caer Corwell
Allian of Lowhill, a halfling young maiden, 52 years old.
Erian of Caer Corwell Man at Arms
Pawldo of Caer Corwell, halfling
Arlen of Caer Corwell, Captain of the Guard
Keren Donnell, Great Bard of the Moonshaes
Keegan of Dynnwall, a woodsman in Llyrath Forest – wife Enid, son Evan.
Gretta, cook at Caer Corwell
Warren, deals with the ale at caer corwell (should have a title like master of casks???)
Friar Nolan, cleric of Chauntea, currently resides in Corwell, not native to the island
Owen, guardsmen at Caer Corwell
Randolph, officer of the guard at Caer Corwell
Lord Mayor Dinsmore of Cantrev Corwell
Kendrick Dynasty, black banner with silver bear. The Great Bear of the Kendricks.
Ffolk in Corwell drink thick Callidyrr mead
Clerics of new gods have been around for a century or more (organised religion sometime before 1245???)
Corwell has a Moonwell (unknown location)
Corwyss, Angus, Canthus, dog names
Lords Dynnatt, Koart, Nowll. Rule the Cantrevs closest to Caer Corwell
Corwell, the only remaining kingdom of ffolk upon Gwynneth (implies other nations of ffolk in the past???)
Cantrev Dynnatt a small farming community
Cantrev Myrrdale
Gavin the smith of Cantrev Myrrdale – huge bear of a man, wife Shareen, two daughters
Cantrev Thorndyke, mountain community, produces iron and coal (best iron in Corwell)
Cantrev MacSheehan, large and wealthy cantrev
Llyrath Forest – Pine forest, full of ridges, many woodsmen cottages
Caer Corwell has a Houndmaster, man at arms
Lord Dynnatt, a burly warrior with shaggy hair and bushy beard
Army of Corwell could grow to several hundred or even several thousand if in dire need.
Corlyth Creek – a ford just north of corwell
Myrloch Vale
Oakvale, Forest in the Myrloch Vale. Resident druid is Trahern of Oakvale. Second most powerful druid.
Quinn Moonwane Druid of Llyrath, changes to an owl, most powerful druid after Trahern and Genna Moonsinger
Isolde of Winterglen Druid of Winterglen, changes to a hawk, tall, stern, bright red bushy hair
Gwendolyn, Druid of Dynloch Pass in Synnorian Mountains for over 50 years. Dynloch pass is known only to the dwarves, the llewyrr, and the druids. Dynloch Pass is filled with many convoluted passes, difficult to follow.
Edric, Druid of Stockwell
Dierdre, Druid of Dynnatt Grove
Erianna Moonsinger – mother of robyn – great druid of the moonshae isles – disappeared near the darkwell – carried the Staff of the White Well
Firbolg of the Highlands have not mobilised in over a century (before 1245 DR, must be a significant battle???)
Highlands – Hickory, oak, and yew trees
Newt – Faerie Dragon – 784 years old, lives in the Fens
The Big Cave – A stone fortress filled with firbolg mining coal to pour into the Darkwell. Treasure chamber in the Big Cave contains gold, crystal chalices, steel swords, more wealth than the King of Callidyrr. Sewer pipe feeds into the Big Cave. (Dwarven origin Dragon Hoard. Coal of evil origin as it pollutes moonwell and reacts violently???)
Something evil beneath the ground of the Big Cave.
Groth, leader of firbolgs in the Fens of the Fallon
Moonwells tainted by coal
The Children
The Pack appeared a century ago (reappeared???)
Kazgoroth ordered firbolg to pollute the moonwells in centuries past.
Master of the pack, a bloodline of wolves, leading for centuries at a time before another descendant takes over.
Leviathan sleeping in the Straits of Leviathan, slain by Thelgaar
Kamerynn the unicorn – captured in the Big Cave
All children vulnerable to poison
Sword of Cymrych Hugh
Sword of cymrych hugh, crafted by dwarves from metal of the earthmother
Sword of Cymrych Hugh – vaguely intelligent, directs Tristan's blows in battle (Nemesis of Kazgoroth???)
Found in the Big Cave (how did it get their, lost or placed???)
Synnoria
Brigit, leader of the sisters of synnoria.
Carina and Maura – lieutenants of the sisters of synnoria.
Aileen a scout, possessed of an innate power (kazgoroth saw it as an intense inner light and wanted to consume it to boost himself, does it signify a powerful bloodline???).
Beholden to the wielder of the Sword of Cymrych Hugh, (obeyed Tristan's orders and fought for the ffolk) |
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Edited by - Gary Dallison on 27 May 2020 10:28:53 |
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neutrondecay
Acolyte
United Kingdom
37 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2020 : 09:33:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
So i'm going to bite the bullet and read the novels to mine them for lore.
Is anyone interested in me posting the details here so i can spare others the pain of having to read them (and for easy reference later)?
This is an excellent idea and very helpful - thank you!
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maransreth
Learned Scribe
Australia
157 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2020 : 09:59:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
Halflings were one of the original inhabitants of the Moonshaes, along with dwarves and llewyrr. Halflings have since spread all over the Moonshaes.
Hi Gary,
Thank you for all the info. On what page was it stated that halflings are one of the original inhabitants?
I don't remember reading anything about this in either the novels (re-read i think about 20 years) or the sourcebook FR2 The Moonshaes.
Thank you
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1288 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2020 : 10:10:42
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| Great stuff! Please continue. I am going to love this thread if you're able to post like this for all the novels you use. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1288 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2020 : 12:09:47
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| I imagine it will be. Particularly for books that are set in their own little area of the Realms (like Moonshaes or Icewind Dale). I can't wait for Azure Bonds :) Spellfire is going to be lore intense as well. |
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perlmugp
Seeker
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2020 : 17:11:01
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| The notes on Cormyr will be almost as long as the book. |
--Zoomable Map of Faerun-- |
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maransreth
Learned Scribe
Australia
157 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2020 : 23:51:06
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Gary, Thank you. Read that section myself and got myself confused with the Great Crossing (-7000 DR or so, might be off by a few centuries).
Niles contradicts himself though in the sourcebook which he wrote - FR2 The Moonshaes. In the Introduction, page 5, he wrote: "With the Ffolk, came the halflings, for the little people dwell in the Realms wherever they can find human targets ...".
EDIT: Thinking about this today I am reminded of a twitter reply Ed Greenwood wrote about the contradiction of lore - it depends upon who is saying it and what they believed to be true.
So for example when Tristan says that halflings have always been on the island, that is the point of view of his teachers and what he has been taught. Halflings are so quiet it seems they have been in the Moonshaes even longer than humans.
Then when Douglas Niles writes the sourcebook, he is telling the truth as he knows it, unless he was specifically told by Ed.
And the version of the sourcebook makes sense - the Great Coming sees humans and halflings brought to the Empires of the Sands. When they free themselves, some halflings move to what is now Tethyr, then when the Tethyr arrive in the Moonshaes they take some halfling folk with them.
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Edited by - maransreth on 29 May 2020 02:35:19 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1288 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2020 : 10:12:39
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| Since Ed didn't create the Moonshaes and they are not in his version of the Realms, I'd go with Niles' view on this, personally. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2020 : 12:13:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
Since Ed didn't create the Moonshaes and they are not in his version of the Realms, I'd go with Niles' view on this, personally.
Ed did create the Moonshaes -- just not the published Moonshaes.
quote:
@RetroGamer_Meph
It’s interesting to note that in the original FR box set, in the rumours, there is mention of “the fueding merchant houses of the Moonshaes.” Not like the celtic feel that eventually was published. I’d love to hear the story of that
@TheEdVerse
Hi. My original Moonshaes were very like LeGuin’s Earthsea or the real-world Hebrides in physiography: a cluster of many islands of varying sizes, with independent city-states and “realms” of one island dominating or claiming at most two adjacent ones. It was a region of hardy fisherfolk, woodcutters, and miners, who over time had become master mariners sailing far up and down the Sword Coast trading, fearless faring in winter gales, among icebergs, etc. and over time, the wealthiest Shae merchants had established trading costers on mainland Faerûn, assembled their own private armies of caravan escorts and warehouse guards, and inevitably clashed with each other, rivalries rising into feuds (think the warring families of Shakespeare’s Romeo and Juliet). They were wealthy, proud, and increasingly into manipulating local politics in all the ports up and down the Sword Coast, as far south as Tharsult, because they were always aware that, as “outsiders,” they could be shut out if local rulers ashore, or popular sentiment among mainland populaces, turned against them.
This was all set aside because TSR designer Doug Niles had already developed an “Albion” campaign (Celtic elements, hence the castles named “Caer X” and “Caer Y,” the stallion Avalon, and so on) before TSR purchased the Realms. Jeff Grubb asked me if I minded if “my” Moonshaes got replaced by Doug’s, and I didn’t—which suited TSR’s needs perfectly, as that meant the Realms could be “rolled out” to the gaming public even faster (hence Doug’s novel Darkwalker On Moonshae leading the way as the first Realms product; TSR wanted to avoid at all costs my becoming a bottleneck that might slow Realms products appearing, and I agreed and still agree with that).
#Realmslore
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2427 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2020 : 12:43:04
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quote:
Originally posted by maransreth
EDIT: Thinking about this today I am reminded of a twitter reply Ed Greenwood wrote about the contradiction of lore - it depends upon who is saying it and what they believed to be true.
Ed Greenwood also wrote an article (in two parts) named Trusting in Lore.
Also, Moonshaes as they are got glued onto the Realms, so perhaps needed some "filing on the sides" to fit better. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1288 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2020 : 12:58:20
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| Stop picking nits Wooly! You know what I meant. What is in the Realms for the Moonshaes is not created by Ed nor does it sit in his Realms. It just shares a name. Ed's version sounds much better than what we got with the Celtic Earth Mother and for some reason Bhaal, which fits horribly with the rest of the Realms. |
Edited by - Seravin on 29 May 2020 12:59:25 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2020 : 15:52:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
Stop picking nits Wooly! You know what I meant. What is in the Realms for the Moonshaes is not created by Ed nor does it sit in his Realms. It just shares a name. Ed's version sounds much better than what we got with the Celtic Earth Mother and for some reason Bhaal, which fits horribly with the rest of the Realms.
Yeah, I never understood the Bhaal angle or who Kazgorath works for or any of that... It's part of the reason I'm not a huge fan of the first trilogy -- it just failed to work for me on multiple levels. It was one of those ones I couldn't wait to finish reading -- just so that I could read something else! |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2020 : 18:14:01
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by maransreth
EDIT: Thinking about this today I am reminded of a twitter reply Ed Greenwood wrote about the contradiction of lore - it depends upon who is saying it and what they believed to be true.
Ed Greenwood also wrote an article (in two parts) named Trusting in Lore.
Also, Moonshaes as they are got glued onto the Realms, so perhaps needed some "filing on the sides" to fit better.
I hear that the Tharanna got transferred to Abeir, not hidden, PRIOR TO the spellplague, and that since they've come back with the second sundering their plan is to take over Dambrath and use all of its men for breeding stock.
On a side note, I was thinking about moving to Dambrath…. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 29 May 2020 18:16:00 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2020 : 21:04:28
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Finished Icewind Dale. Was pleasantly surprised by the quantity of lore in the first half of the book.
I found the battles to be somewhat confusing, with the emphasis often on style more than on me being able to follow what was happening. Time seemed to flow according to how the writer wanted it, with armies moving across the battlefield and events unfolding in minutes despite the forces being at least a days march apart .
Descriptions of the geography was often muddled. I couldnt figure out which lakes and towns were where until about halfway through (when he finally described their placement consistently, east-west being a big problem).
Some interesting lore though regarding Crenshenibon (not sure if it is made on Toril or not though because it often describes it being made at the dawn of this world and used to conquer huge kingdoms, but then hurled across the planes.
This novel can probably be used to figure out a history of the ten towns. I'm pretty sure the ffolk of the moonshaes founded Caer Konig and Caer Dineval. Lots of unanswered questions involving Kelvin's Cairn.
Icewind Dale
Errtu
A demon, clawed fingers, horned ape-like head, muzzle of a dog, boar-like incisors.
Banished back to the abyss 1000 years ago by the angelic Al-Dimeneira.
Errtu had once served in Menzoberranzan centuries ago.
Served by Telshazz a lesser demon
Assisted by two hell hounds
Errtu greatly desires Crenshenibon (why???)
Errtu summoned a thousand miles away (as far south as Amn and as far east as Anauroch) from Icewind Dale. His true name found in the notes of a wizard by his apprentice. Soared over lakes and mountains and expanses of empty land to the Spine of the World. Unable to match the power of Crenshenibon, Errtu agrees to command Akar Kessel’s armies and conquer Icewind Dale.
Crenshenibon
Crenshenibon – powerful artifact created by 7 liches (former wizards) who were consumed by their creation. Crenshenibon was more powerful than even the 7 liches should have been able to create (artefact level of power??).
Crenshenibon is powered by the sun (life is magic, life derives from the energy of the sun, does Crenshenibon use raw magic for power???).
Crenshenibon is intelligent (possibly an amalgamation of the intelligence of the 7 liches???) and driven to conquer the world (the goals of the 7 liches).
Crenshenibon as hurled across the planes by Al-Dimeneira after it burned the angel (contradiction as multiple times it was claimed to have been created on this world???).
Crenshenibon was a relic enchanted in the earliest days of the world, a perversion that had been lost for centuries, to the dismay of those evil lords who sought its strength. Created at the Dawn of the World.
Crenshenibon was an instrument for destruction, a tool for scrying, a shelter and home, it also imparted power to the possessor. Can duplicate itself, these duplicates are used to create the towers Cryshal Tirith.
Crenshenibon can shoot bolts of white energy to burn creatures. Can pulse in bright sunlight.
Crenshenibon can scry through mirrors (plane of mirrors?)
Crenshenibon can create “mirror doors” (allow teleportation through the plane of mirrors???)
Crenshenibon makes its owner a wizard (grants spells or spell like abilities)
Crenshenibon can dominate the minds of others.
Crenshenibon was last active over 10,000 years ago (was Errtu last active then???)
Creatures of the Outer Planes can see through the magic of Crenshenibon and Cryshal Tirith. Only extraplanar monsters can find the entrance to Cryshal-Tirith
The drow of Menzoberranzan know of Crenshenibon (???)
Crenshenibon makes the holder immune to cold
Crenshenibon can create huge replicas known as the Cryshal-Tirith
Cryshal-Tirith
Cryshal-Tirith has 4 levels.
1st level of Cryshal-Tirith is the entrance hall and main audience chamber all in one.
2nd level of Cryshal-Tirith is the harem / living area
3rd level of Cryshal-Tirith is the scrying room / throne room
4th level of Cryshal-Tirith is the heart of the tower.
Cryshal-Tirith can shoot a ray of searing fire (disintegrates those hit directly)
Cryshal-Tirith – a crystal tower (black) with a heart the same as Crenshenibon.
Al-Dimeneira
Al-Dimeneira – angelic being that banished Errtu when he tried to possess Crenshenibon – was burned by Crenshenibon’s power
Icewind Dale
Icewind Dale – a thousand square miles of barren, broken tundra. Bordered by unpassable mountains on the south, an expanding glacier to the east, and a sea of icebergs on the north and east side. Accessible only through a single mountain pass. The Sea of Moving Ice to the north and west.
Constant howling wind (blowing from the east) and endless, featureless tundra.
In winter Icewind Dale is cut off from the rest of the world as snow covers the mountain pass.
Tundra yetis – brown in summer, white in winter. Inedible (poisonous???)
Struck by frequent storms that can flatten buildings.
The waters of the lakes of Icewind Dale are cold enough (all year round) to kill a grown man in minutes
Maer Dualdon – Lake in Icewind Dale. Largest and most prosperous lake Western lake of Icewind Dale
Lac Dinneshere – Lake in Icewind Dale. Lake originally split between Caer Konig and Caer Dineval, then Easthaven grew (with the creation of the Eastway) and upset the balance prompting many territory disputes in recent years. Eastern lake of Icewind Dale
Dellon-Lune – Southernmost lake in Icewind Dale. Renamed Redwaters after a recent skirmish involving fishermen where 4 whole boats were slaughtered.
The Reghed Glacier – north of the ten towns, on the edge of the Sea of Moving Ice. Nomadic barbarian tribes spend summer on the glacier with herds of reindeer. Reindeer migrate southwest along the coast in winter and the barbarians followed (sheltering caves along the route).
Goblins, orcs, giants (verbeeg, ogres, trolls, frost giants) live in the mountains. Goblins usually forced aboveground and raid the Ten Towns.
Tundra widowmaker snake has a poisonous bite.
Water constrictor snake, long and silvery in the water, can grow up to 50 ft and can kill a giant.
Knucklehead trout – Only found in rivers and lakes of Icewind Dale, used to make ivory carvings by locals (known as scrimshaw). Oversized, fist shaped heads with bones the consistency of ivory. Can grow up to 5 feet in size. (rarely). Summer is the height of knucklehead season.
Kelvin’s Cairn – a snow capped peak rising from Icewind Dale. Only mountain in Icewind Dale, situated between Lac Dinneshere and Maer Dualdon. Marks the entrance to a rocky dwarven valley.
Barbarian legends claim that the mountain was the grave of something. It resembles an overly large burial mound.
Daledrop – on the north side of Kelvin’s Cairn.
Shallow cave in northern side of Kelvin’s Cairn just above the base where Drizzt often stayed and later trained Wulfgar. Tunnels lead deep into the mountain, several layers of caverns and tunnels well worked and supported (with chimneys and square rooms), big enough for a frost giant (who made them, dwarves, giants, something else???)
The Ten Towns
The Ten Towns – within Icewind Dale. 9 villages initially founded by fishermen that found a good fishing hole, little more than shanty towns. All rely upon the knucklehead trout to survive. Home to people from the Moonshae Isles.
Bryn Shander, a high walled town of several thousand individuals situated on a low but wide hill. Just south of the entrance to the dwarven valley. Merchant caravans of Luskan come to Bryn Shander (last one leaves the end of summer). Economic centre of the Ten Towns. Targos, Termelaine, Konig, Dinneval less than one days travel from Bryn Shander. Low wooden buildings tightly packed together, subdivided to house several families in each house. . Bryn Shander militia was better than any 5 of the other Ten Towns combined. Council meetings for the Ten Towns held in a warehouse. Cassius lives in the former palatial council meeting hall. Entire section of Bryn Shander reserved for visiting merchant caravans (empty during autumn and winter)
Targos – Largest of the ten towns, on the south eastern shore of Maer Dualdon. Able to put out several hundred fishing vessels (twice the size of Termalaine and the second largest fleet in the Ten Towns). Kemp is spokesman of Targos.
Easthaven – one of the Ten Towns. On the south eastern tip of Lac Dinneshere
Lonelywood – Smallest and most northern of the ten towns. Home to the most desperate of outcasts. Regis is the only Scrimshander (makes objects from knucklehead trout skulls) in Lonelywood. Made up of rows of wooden cabins on the edge of the northern “Lonely” Wood (an actual wood of fir trees that shelters the town from the howling winds). On the shore of Maer Dualdon.
Once a month council meeting is held between all the ten towns. These meetings usually descend into arguments over fishing territories.
Termelaine – one of the Ten Towns (lies slightly north of Targos), in the west on the south eastern shore of Maer Dualdon. Rivalry with Targos. Second largest of the Ten Towns (in terms of population). A sprawling, uncluttered town with wide avenues and houses spread out between them.
Caer-Konig – One of the Ten Towns. Allied to Targos. On the north western shore of Lac Dinneshere
Caer-Dineval – One of the Ten Towns. Allied to Targos. On the south western shore of Lac Dinneshere
The Eastway connects Easthaven to Bryn Shander.
Bremen – one of the Ten Towns on the north western shore of Maer Dualdon. Situated on the banks of the Shaengarne River
Good Mead – one of the Ten Towns on the shores of Dellon-Lune. Fiercely independent
Dougan’s Hole – One of the Ten Towns on the shores of Dellon-Lune. Fiercely independent
Bremen’s Run – a natural causeway between Kelvin’s Cairn and Maer Dualdon
Shaengarne River – feeds into or fed by Maer Dualdon. Floods often.
Icewind Pass – a natural causeway between Kelvin’s Cairn and Lac Dinneshere
The Mist Seeker, flagship fishing boat of Caer Dineval, presumably owned by the spokesman of Caer Dineval.
Luskan is 400 miles away from the ten towns.
Newsbearer – a small glass instrument (manufactured in Termalaine) designed to focus the light of the sun and used for signaling across the lakes
Characters
Morcai the Red – wizard in the Arcane Brotherhood. Raised Akar Kessel as a son and apprentice.
Akar Kessel – Apprentice to Morcai the Red, desires power and position in he Arcane Brotherhood. Slew Morcai the Red (with a dagger) on the orders of Eldeluc and Dendybar. From a peasant background.
Dendybar the Mottled – small, frail, quiet-spoken man, always wearing a cowled hood.
Regis – Only halfling in Icewind Dale – very short (3 feet tall) – had previous trouble with a thieve’s guildmaster in Calimshan (Pasha Pook) because he stole one of 12 unique rubies (they hypnotised those who looked at them, implant suggestions, help the holder resist domination and charm magics).
Kemp of Targos – spokesman of Targos, looked like a frontiersman, not too tall, barrelchested, gnarled and knotted arms, a stern demeanor. Bullying, prone to rage if challenged.
Cassius of Bryn Shander – Spokesman of Bryn Shander. Small framed, neatly trimmed grey hair, big blue eyes. Good fighter, ruthless. Dutiful
Dorim Lugar – Spokesman of Caer Konig. Gaunt, dark complexion, nervous
Jensin Brent – Spokesman of Caer Dinneval. Golden haired, innocent face, courageous fighter
Agorwal – Spokesman of Termalaine. Possesses an ashwood bow (possibly magical, very accurate)
deBernezan – dark haired inhabitant of the Ten Towns, southerner (tethyrian subrace inhabitant of the sword coast north). Traitor of the Ten Towns, created barbarian battle plan.
Wulfgar, captured by Bruenor during battle of Bryn Shander. Works in the dwarven valley as a smith for Bruenor for 5 years and 1 day. Bruenor gives him Aegis Fang. Wulfgar, son of Beornegar, son of Beorne, of the Tribe of the Elk.
Heafstaag survives the battle of Bryn Shander (duel with Drizzt), is commanded by the power of Crenshenibon to serve Akar Kessel
Bundo son of Fellhammer, Dourgas son of Argo Grimblade – dwarves of Clan Battlehammer
Muldoon – new spokesman of Lonelywood (replaced Regis who didnt want the job anymore)
Glensather – spokesman of Easthaven.
Schermont – new spokesman of Caer Konig, friend of Dorim Lugar (who was killed in a fishing dispute with Caer Dineval).
Ingeloakastimizilian – the white dragon Icingdeath, had not emerged from its lair in at least 50 years and was now trapped, sleeping. In the short time that it was active it had acquired a reputation for causing havoc and terror (hunted deer and humans, troubled the barbarians more???)
Revjak, son of Jorn the Red, warrior in the Tribe of the Elk.
Fender Mallot – second in command of the dwarves
Artemis Entreri – prime assassin of Pasha Pook, has a dagger with an emerald encrusted hilt.
Barbarians of the Reghed Glacier
2000 warriors in total among the barbarian tribes (perhaps 10000 tribesmen in total)
Tribe of the Elk – led by King Heafstaag (red haired, 7 ft tall, barrel shaped, brutal, one eyed, huge, interested only in personal glory and plunder). Rival to the tribe of the Wolf. King Heafstaag, son of Hrothulf the Strong, son of Angaar the Brave; thrice killer of the great bear; twice conqueror of Termalaine to the south (Cattie-Brie was orphaned in one of those raids); who slew Raag Doning, King of the Tribe of the Bear in single combat in a single stroke. King Heafstaag’s eye removed by the antlers of a deer, his left hand crumpled by a polar bear.
Tribe of the Wolf – led by King Beorg (blond, wants to conquer the Ten Towns). Rival to the tribe of the Elk.
Tribe of the Bear – led by King Haalfdane, son of Raag Donnig
Hengorot – meaning the Mead Hall – a gathering of all the nomadic tribes in Icewind Dale
Barbarians worship Tempos the Lord of Battle. Live in deerskin tents. Bearded with dark hair, sun-browned skin, cracked and leathery from the sun and wind. Despise the people of the Ten Town (weak wealth chasers). Raid the Ten Towns.
Tribe of the Tiger (why would a tiger be in Icewind Dale or the Savage Frontier)?
Only those related to a leader could claim the Rights of Challenge and attempt to wrest leadership from a current leader. Otherwise one had to perform a truly heroic feat to claim the Rights of Challenge.
Evermelt on the edge of the Reghed Glacier – a hot spring fed a small opaque pool and kept the temperature bearable. In Icingdeath’s lair lay a fortune in gems, jewels, gold, and silver (the hoard of Icingdeath, where did he get it from???). Strewn with large boulders with strange colour striations (volcanic ???) A hidden passage in the pool leads into the caverns and tunnels of Icingdeath’s lair under the glacier.
Prayne de crabug ohm keike rinedere be-yogi iglo kes gron – An old tundra barbarian insult meaning “May the fleas of a thousand reindeer nest in your genitals”.
Dwarves
Dwarven Valley – entrance via Bruenor’s Climb, a rocky ridge in the southern end of the valley that leads north to Kelvin’s Cairn. Valley is located just north of Bryn Shander and the two lakes of Maer Dualdon and Lac Dinneshere.
Dwarven clan here were originally from Mithral Hall, came when Bruenor was a boy. Dwarves came to Icewind Dale before the Ten Towns existed (barbarians lived in Icewind Dale then).
Humans of the Ten Towns trade with the dwarves for metal and weapons.
Bruenor’s father was slain when Mithril Hall fell.
Curse on clan battlehammer – they will create one perfect piece of craftsmanship and it will be powerful, unique, and last many lifetimes, but they will never equal that perfection ever again and will lose all taste for the craft afterwards (their life becoming empty).
Dwarven tunnels extend from Kelvin’s Cairn under Bryn Shander.
After 1st Battle of Bryn Shander
During the battle almost all the Tribe of the Elk were slain. King Haalfdane was slain by Agorwal. King Heafstag almost slain by Drizzt. Only 50 barbarian warriors survived unscathed. 700 inhabitants of the Ten Towns were slain. Regis kills deBernezan.
A harsh winter killed many of the barbarian women and children after the 1st battle of Bryn Shander. Only the Tribe of the Elk and the Tribe of the Bear survived.
Goblinoid Army of Akar Kessel
Torga – Chief of orcs (Tribe of the Slasher Orcs, Tribe of the Severed Tongue)
Grock – Chief of goblins (Tribe of Twisting Spears)
Biggirin – Chief of the frost giants
Orcs and goblins had been warring for at least 30 years.
Akar Kessel gathered 10,000 goblinoids to his army.
Magic Items
Aegis Fang – a two headed hammer. Heads made of mithril, shaft made of adamantite, hammer of throwing, wants to be thrown at giants (intelligent???)
Guenhwyvar given to Drizzt by Masoj Hun’ett (who was in turn given it by a demon lord for some assistance Masoj provided against troublesome gnomes (svirfneblin?). Guenhwyvar met with Drizzt many times while Masoj was his master, even saving Drizzt’s life. Drizzt and Guenhwyvar share a spiritual bond of some sort.
Guenhwyvar sent by Masoj to murder svirfneblin (their home raided and destroyed the gnomes were defenceless). Drizzt killed Masoj for the crime and took Guenhwyvar.
Magic scimitar in Icingdeath’s hoard, adamantite hilt sculpted into the toothed maw of a hunting cat. Silver blade edged in diamonds. (unknown origin, how did it get into the hoard???) So powerful that Errtu had never encountered a weapon like it. Possibly intelligent, drove Drizzt’s attacks when he was exhausted. Draws energy from the wielder if necessary. Grants the wielder fire immunity. Drains fire from its opponents, snuffs out all flames in a small radius.
Misc Lore
Urgutha Forka, a vicious demon that had ravaged the planet with disease when the drow were dark elves and walked on the surface. The surface elves blamed the dark elves for the plagues (who were immune to the powers of Urgutha Forka), later when the dark elves turned evil they used Urgutha Forka against the surface elves. Urgutha’s symbol is a demon smashing an elf’s skull with a black rod.
Aftermath
Schermont, Glensather, Agorwal dead.
Only Cassius, Kemp, and Jensin Brent survived
Only ¼ of the population of the Ten Towns fighting men survived
Barbarians heavily hit (maybe 500 men survive???)
Dwarves lose less than 10 men
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2020 : 11:26:53
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A few thoughts about the timeline of crenshenibon and errtu.
Crenshenibon was supposedly created at the dawn of the world (a very woolly statement). 7 liches made it and were consumed during the creation. Errtu helped and was banished to the abyss as a result of the magical explosion.
Then about a thousand years ago errtu was almost about to get his hands on the artefact again but some angelic like being named al-dimeneira appeared and banished him again. It is possible that at this time errtu was involved with Masoj Hun'ett (a demon gave him guenhwyvar to deal with svirfneblin and errtu has worked with the drow of menzonberranzan before) trying to destroy the svirfnebling near myth Drannor.
Crenshenibon was hurled by al-dimeneira to icewind dale presumably where it remained until akar kessel found it.
Now the creation could have been at any time, possibly something made by one of the creator races to conquer the world, but I think the clue is in the naming of the cryshal-tirith that crenshenibon appears to give to it's own towers. That's an elven word and might hint at a vyshaan or illythiiri origin.
In the entrance to the 3rd floor of crystal tirith is a tapestry of a demon from ancient elven legend (before the descent of the drow). It was a demon that plagued the elves of the north but they refused to acknowledge his existence, instead blaming the plagues he wrought upon the illythiiri. When the illythiiri went bad they sought out this demon and allied with him (their trafficking with demonic and devil powers prior to the Descent is well known).
So I think the Vyshaan made this tower. Sun elves making a tower powered by the sun works for me. It was possessed by the dominating and aggressive personality of 7 lichlike high mages of clan vyshaan (perhaps even the emperor of the Vyshan Empire).
At some point later it ended up in zakhara and then again near menzoberranzan (not sure in what order these two events occur (I would have though menzoberranzan first given its proximity to the high forest). And eventually it ends up in icewind dale.
Perhaps Crenshenibon was one of the weapons hidden in vyshaan ruins that the dlardrageth and siluvanede uncovered. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2020 : 22:15:54
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The write-up for Crenshinibon in VGtATM makes it clear that the artifact was created and first "used" far away from the Realms.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2020 : 22:21:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
1235 DR, the black horde sacks Illusk, I figure that people fleeing the ruins of Luslan flee in all directions and some of them leg it north and end up in Icewind Dale and found the ten towns (they probably took everything they owned, including a few caravans and horses, etc). Maybe some orcs pursued them and that's why they kept going all the way to icewind dale.
Founding several towns of several thousand people in less than 2 centuries would take a large migration. There are few enough trees and resources, and the buildings are shanty like so I imagine some of the buildings are made out of old caravans.
Now all I need to do is figure out what drove a large enough group of moonshae islanders to icewind dale to found caer konig and caer dineval.
No one cares about Ten Towns.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1288 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2020 : 00:53:02
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| Great, great stuff. Looking forward to all of these tidbits. I like Caer Dinneval best since it has the only castle in Icewind Dale if I remember correctly. Although allegedly the namesake descendants are from Cormyr, not the Moonshaes as the name would suggest. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2020 : 07:44:07
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I knew I'd seen a write up of crenshenibon somewhere, never liked artefacts that originated elsewhere though, but thankfully volo us the most unreliable narrator there is.
Didn't pick up on a cormyrean origin for caer dineval in the crystal shard book, maybe it is in a later book. Should be easy enough to explain. Caravans and exiles from other lands could easily overwhelm the small populations in icewind dale.
I think spellfire is up next. I expect that will have about 30 pages of lore.
EDIT
I found the reference to Caer Dineval's founding, which places it at 1050 DR. Totally messes up the Icewind Dale timeline.
The barbarians are supposed to be first, then the dwarves (who arrived 200 years ago from 1350 ish) before any of the ten towns existed, and then the humans of the ten towns. Caer Konig and Caer Dineval were supposedly two of the last of the Ten Towns to be established.
Not sure why they chose to mess with the timeline (bad research most likely).
Not an unsolveable problem. Caer Dineval is clearly a Moonshae name. The settlers from Cormyr were a single family (why they moved all the way to Icewind Dale i don't know). It seems that they had an orc problem and most likely a barbarian problem so i reckon that the first settlement in Caer Dineval was all but wiped out and then the ten towns established in the ruins later.
Came up with a rough timeline
-2100 DR: Refugees from Illusk migrate to Icewind Dale, they join with the Ice Hunter tribes to form the Reghed barbarians.
1050 DR: Year of the Keening Gale: The Dinev's, a displaced family from troubled Arabel in Cormyr, make their way to Icewind Dale and establish a modest keep amid the ice.
1058 DR: Year of the Spider's Daughter: Orcs raze Dinev Keep and slaughter the Dinev family.
1068 DR: Year of the Seer Born: The cormyreans in Icewind Dale retake Dinev Keep from the orcs but their numbers dwindle over the following decades.
1172 DR: Year of the Hoary Host: The dwarves of Clan Battlehammer arrive in Icewind Dale and settle in the valley of Kelvin's Cairn
1235 DR: Year of the Black Horde: Refugees from beseiged Illusk flee north to Icewind Dale, making it through the North Pass just before the snows of winter close it completely.
1278 DR Year of Many Bones: Refugees from the Korinn Archipelago, fleeing pirates and the collapse of Viledel's kingdom, get lost in the Sea of Moving Ice and run aground north east of Ironmaster. They eventually chance upon the settlements of Icewind Dale and establish Caer Konig and Caer Dinneval.
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Edited by - Gary Dallison on 02 Jun 2020 09:14:46 |
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maransreth
Learned Scribe
Australia
157 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2020 : 09:30:13
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
The write-up for Crenshinibon in VGtATM makes it clear that the artifact was created and first "used" far away from the Realms.
-- George Krashos
In Salvatore's book, The Ghost King, looks like Salvatore either didnt care for the write up in VGtATM or didn't know about it:
From the Prologue: "the apparitions—the seven liches who had created the mighty Crenshinibon—circled and chanted ancient words of power long lost to the realms of Faerûn. A closer look revealed the many different backgrounds of these men of ancient times, the varied cultures and features from all across the continent."
Further on, there is a little about the seven liches:
Chapter 3: "The shadowy being, once Fetchigrol the archmage of a great and lost civilization, didn’t even recognize himself by that name, having long ago abandoned his identity in the communal joining ritual that had forged the Crystal Shard."
In total we learn three names of the liches - Fetchigrol, Solme (accented e) and First Grandfather Wu. Of course Granfather Wu sounds like it comes from Kara-Tur.
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Novel Lore
