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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1239 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Apr 2020 : 22:51:18
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I’ve never really thought about the common tongue or it’s origins before and would like to leave this thread open for general discussion and knowledge of it. Honestly, I just thought about this because of watching Picard and wondering how every darn alien civilization is fluent in English (yeah I know there are translators and such).
In particular though...
What are the origins of the Common tongue? Is it from a particular empire that spanned the world?
How universal is it. If the same common tongue is used on other worlds, well then it’s origins would have to go back much, much further.
What alphabet is it based off of for its writing on Toril. I’m sure this is easy to research for FR, pardon my laziness.
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Edited by - Seethyr on 25 Apr 2020 22:52:13
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4693 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2020 : 23:34:46
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| Common is trade language. Words similar enough that basic communication can take place. wheat, welt type of thing. There is no official common dictionary because the words are not the same. Common in many ways was a game device to avoid having PCs having learn a new language every time they crossed a border. Oh some languages are cross border and clearly there are people that know more then one language, however if one is to be world traveling, without common, they would need to learn new languages or hire translators (that might not be trusted and very likely not willing to dungeon dive). |
Edited by - Kentinal on 25 Apr 2020 23:36:52 |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2089 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2020 : 00:01:46
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In the FRCS (3e) there's a discussion of Calant, a sing-song dialect of Common spoken along the Sword Coast. Anyone who speaks Common can understand any dialect of Common, but it sounds funny the farther afield you are.
Here are the ones I've defined so far:
Calant (spoken in Athwater Vale, the Shining Vale and along the Sword Coast).
Dessarnar (spoken in the Silver Marches and the Dessarin river valley)
Eaerlannar (a lyrical variant spoken only in the High Forest and the Delimbiyr Crescent with strong linguistic ties to Elven)
Netherlan (spoken in Newfort, ere its recent destruction, in the Grayvale, among the Bedine of Anauroch, and in the far-off Tesh river valley near Zhentil Keep)
--Eric |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36880 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2020 : 00:17:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Common is trade language. Words similar enough that basic communication can take place. wheat, welt type of thing. There is no official common dictionary because the words are not the same. Common in many ways was a game device to avoid having PCs having learn a new language every time they crossed a border. Oh some languages are cross border and clearly there are people that know more then one language, however if one is to be world traveling, without common, they would need to learn new languages or hire translators (that might not be trusted and very likely not willing to dungeon dive).
The way D&D characters know languages has always seemed odd, to me. "I grew up on a farm in a tiny village near the Dales. We were isolated, and the only stranger we saw was a bard that passed through every 3 years... I've never seen anyone not human, but I speak common, elven, orc, giant, and Abyssal." |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 26 Apr 2020 00:21:13 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4693 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2020 : 00:35:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Common is trade language. Words similar enough that basic communication can take place. wheat, welt type of thing. There is no official common dictionary because the words are not the same. Common in many ways was a game device to avoid having PCs having learn a new language every time they crossed a border. Oh some languages are cross border and clearly there are people that know more then one language, however if one is to be world traveling, without common, they would need to learn new languages or hire translators (that might not be trusted and very likely not willing to dungeon dive).
The way D&D characters know languages has always seemed odd, to me. "I grew up on a farm in a tiny village near the Dales. We were isolated, and the only stranger we saw was a bard that passed through every 3 years... I've never seen anyone not human, but I speak common, elven, orc, giant, and Abyssal."
I do know Ed and/or others that added to FR has done more with regional language, Common is a D&D default to allow play faster. Just as the additional languages a person will know (Having learned them when young) due to the dice roll.
The only thing I can offer other then game design is that the Realms have a high degree of literacy (I have seen claims of 95 percent) that might indeed have many people knowing more then one language.
The "I grew up on a farm" clearly offers a problem for much language knowledge, unless in normal realms life "Mother and Father taught us to read and write all the languages they knew." Maybe when snowed in during winter. Or other times that one did not have to farm.
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
578 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2020 : 01:22:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
How universal is it. If the same common tongue is used on other worlds, well then it’s origins would have to go back much, much further.
It's inferred that if you speak Common, you can communicate with anyone else who speaks Common in a Spelljammer or Planescape campaign. It's lampshaded a little in Planescape, IIRC.
It doesn't make a lot of sense, but it eases play. Worst case scenario, assume there is some magical element in the multiverse that Common tongues, even when different, are mutually intelligible.
Jeff |
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not." |
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ElfBane
Learned Scribe
USA
293 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2020 : 09:29:23
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| Yes, the FR has inconsistencies, such as the large number of folks that can't read,,, but can speak several languages (although this was not unheard of in RL history).But let's not make our pleasant pastime TOO complicated by having to attend language schools/tutors! |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4460 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2020 : 14:09:00
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| I've started to use the common tongue as simple directions, commands, and questions. "Where's the bathroom?", "How much is this?", "Good day to you.", "Stop right there!", Etc. It works at the market or when you in an inn ordering a cot for the night or a beer but if you want to actually get to know someone, use Diplomacy, talk with the king or Lord of the land, etc you had better know Chondathan or Illuskan or the language common to that area. |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36880 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2020 : 15:06:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
I've started to use the common tongue as simple directions, commands, and questions. "Where's the bathroom?", "How much is this?", "Good day to you.", "Stop right there!", Etc. It works at the market or when you in an inn ordering a cot for the night or a beer but if you want to actually get to know someone, use Diplomacy, talk with the king or Lord of the land, etc you had better know Chondathan or Illuskan or the language common to that area.
That's reasonable enough. Common has been described as more of a trade tongue than anything else, so having to use the native language for deeper conversations is a reasonable approach. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2020 : 21:11:47
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| Planescape's "lampshading" of Common suggested the possibility of magic or divine consensus at work. The argument was that all creatures capable of common speech are also capable of enough thought and belief to influence reality, thus they (along with the cosmos) manifest a common language. The argument falls apart on different Primes - Greyhawk, Krynn, the Realms, etc - because they're not supposed to be made of pliant planestuff, indeed some worlds (like Earth) are defined as "low-magic" so they are more strongly governed by other properties. It's shrugged off as just another weird thing savvy folks accept for what it is. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6383 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36880 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2020 : 23:53:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Planescape's "lampshading" of Common suggested the possibility of magic or divine consensus at work. The argument was that all creatures capable of common speech are also capable of enough thought and belief to influence reality, thus they (along with the cosmos) manifest a common language. The argument falls apart on different Primes - Greyhawk, Krynn, the Realms, etc - because they're not supposed to be made of pliant planestuff, indeed some worlds (like Earth) are defined as "low-magic" so they are more strongly governed by other properties. It's shrugged off as just another weird thing savvy folks accept for what it is.
Wasn't it suggested somewhere in Planescape material that it might be that a person's understanding of language was changed as they crossed planar barriers? As I recall, this was offered as a possibility, not something definite.
It does bring to mind one of the elements in the game The Strange. In short, the game focuses on alternate dimensions being accessible from Earth. When you go to another dimension, you "translate" to something appropriate there -- so a dude that's a sniper, on Earth, goes to Ardeyn, a fantasy setting, and is an elven archer, complete with the relevant skills and knowledge. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2477 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2020 : 01:47:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
What are the origins of the Common tongue? Is it from a particular empire that spanned the world?
Probably an overgrown pidgin of Planecommon (which itself is a pidgin of everything from everywhere), Thorass and local tongues? |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2020 : 02:38:27
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Thorass is called "Auld Common". It seems logical that if a modern/contemporary version of Common language exists then earlier proto-Common languages would be just as similar.
The weak explanation is that the Realms - and every other D&D world - was created by deities. They imposed their designs onto all things, including the races and their languages. |
[/Ayrik] |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
986 Posts |
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The Common Tongue
