quote:

---

Originally posted by LordofBones

What kind of superpowered drow do you have that can enslave a 20th level cleric without him frying the lot of them and planeshifting to his god's personal casino.

Also, where's the monk/sacred fist?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

What's the point of this poll? These are some odd choices that you're railroading us into... There isn't any options for single classed characters, and a lot of multiclassed options are left off.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ElfBane

quote:

---

Originally posted by cpthero2

Great Reader Ravenheart,

I can certainly appreciate notions that the polling process itself could have been vastly better; however, why is the "whole question" kind of in bad taste?

Best regards,

---

CEV has an agenda.There is only ONE way to build a PC, and his way is it. Go back and read his posts and judge for yourself. I don't know the EXACT motive behind this loaded poll, but it will be some variation on "his way is the best".

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Diffan

I'm confused as to why every choice requires the Sacred Fist prestige class? It's not very good and you might think there's WAAAY better options to get yourself out of the situation.

I'd assume the ultimate goal is to flee such a terrible situation, at any means necessary.

As to starting off as a slave, I'm not exactly comfortable with that notion either. Still, some adventures, like Out of the Abyss for 5e, starts you off in prison with some bad notions for your future. In that one, you're also in some Underdark prison cell with seemingly very little ways to escape.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

What's the point of this poll? These are some odd choices that you're railroading us into... There isn't any options for single classed characters, and a lot of multiclassed options are left off.

---

The point is that it's a fun question with very limited options. That's freaking fun. Single classed PC's just aren't available, lol. you'll manage.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I think if you're 20th level, it doesn't really matter what the class is -- you should be able to escape some slavers fairly readily.

The only way I see it being an issue is if you're a mage with 0 prepped spells, zero magical contingencies, and no feats that give spells automatically, or if you've got some weird class where you're awesome with one specific item and useless without it.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lord Karsus

-Went with Druid because at some point you'll just be able to turn into a bird and fly away.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kentinal

Not counting the clear desire for Sacred Fist there are other bugs. How many class levels would be desired mix for any selection?

A Rogue1/ Cleric18/ Sacred Fist1 is much different then a Rogue5/ Cleric10/ Sacred Fist5

The magic options change greatly and mundane options change as well.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Diffan

I'd vote but Unarmed Swordsage/master of nine isn't an option, because being able to call forth maneuvers, stances, and all sorts of shadow jaunting shenanigans is awesome

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Delnyn

As one more background element, Gruumsh murdered Erevan Ilesere and he becomes your divine patron whether you like it or not.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I think if you're 20th level, it doesn't really matter what the class is -- you should be able to escape some slavers fairly readily.

The only way I see it being an issue is if you're a mage with 0 prepped spells, zero magical contingencies, and no feats that give spells automatically, or if you've got some weird class where you're awesome with one specific item and useless without it.

---

Not quite sure what epic games you play, but in order to "capture" and enslave a 20th level PC the villains must be equal to the task. I mean, what is everyone thinking?... A group of 7th level Thayan Slavers sell you to a group of 5th level drow slavers? LOL!!!

I said above that whatever choice you make in the poll, you are a 20th level PC. Which, in most intelligent games, means you are going against high-level or epic monsters or humanoids.

A band of 20th level slavers can mop the floor with a single epic PC with no problem.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lord Karsus

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart

I don't like slavery at all, especially enforcing it onto the PC's. If they get captured after battling slavers, there's a story reason. But to just start off a slave? It's very poor storytelling.

---

-A while ago, I was starting off a campaign and the players were being very rowdy and everyone was just having a hard time settling down and getting serious and starting the game, and when one of the PCs said they were all spending their money at the tavern getting drunk, I went with it. I started the game with the four of them on a cart, shanghaied. In their drunken shenanigans, I had them "agree" to serve on a merchant vessel.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:

---

Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

What's the point of this poll? These are some odd choices that you're railroading us into... There isn't any options for single classed characters, and a lot of multiclassed options are left off.

---

The point is that it's a fun question with very limited options. That's freaking fun. Single classed PC's just aren't available, lol. you'll manage.

---

When a question is limited to undesirable options, I don't answer the question. There's no fun in being forced into something you're not interested in.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by cpthero2

Senior Scribe Copper Elven Vampire,

Well, I am glad that my question to Learned Scribe ElfBane was comforting to you, or so it seems. However, I should clarify something: I'm a very analytical person, with a penchant for formal argumentation. When I asked Learned Scribe ElfBane why "why is the "whole question" kind of in bad taste?", it was not an advocation for or against your argument; rather, it was an argumentative inquiry as to why ethically such an acknowledgement by situation of a character(s) in a slavery situation would be in bad taste, when the Realms has a rich history of slavery.

Best regards,

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire



I agree wholeheartedly! That's why we like our Poll options. You are limited in what you can choose, but you sill have a wide variety of combo-classes to choose from nonetheless. If a DM started me off in this scenario, then I'd be thrilled at the challenge. Why must anyone have to play D&D in a comfort zone? Are we all supposed to win all the time? Defeat without death is a Hero's calling. And if you die by 2nd level, then so be it. Be a professional and have a back up PC that the DM knows about and can put the new PC into the game in case of death.

All PC's should have this if you're going into a long Adventure, Module whatever.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:

---

Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I think if you're 20th level, it doesn't really matter what the class is -- you should be able to escape some slavers fairly readily.

The only way I see it being an issue is if you're a mage with 0 prepped spells, zero magical contingencies, and no feats that give spells automatically, or if you've got some weird class where you're awesome with one specific item and useless without it.

---

Not quite sure what epic games you play, but in order to "capture" and enslave a 20th level PC the villains must be equal to the task. I mean, what is everyone thinking?... A group of 7th level Thayan Slavers sell you to a group of 5th level drow slavers? LOL!!!

I said above that whatever choice you make in the poll, you are a 20th level PC. Which, in most intelligent games, means you are going against high-level or epic monsters or humanoids.

A band of 20th level slavers can mop the floor with a single epic PC with no problem.

---

I don't see why a bunch of 20th level slavers are going to be looking to sell another level 20 character. Part of the point of being a slaver is taking someone that can't fight back and selling them to people they can't fight. There's not going to be a market for 20th-level slaves.

And because slavers focus on those weaker, they're generally not all that high in level, themselves.

Lastly, there's not a huge number of characters wandering about in Skullport that are capable of handling a 20th-level slave.

So yes, given that slavers are general not powerful and that there are huge numbers of epic level characters wandering around, it is not unreasonable to think that you're proposing 7th level slavers and 5th level drow.

You don't seem to realize that few people here play epic games, and I suspect the few who do still don't play epic games the way you do. You're basically playing a different game than everyone here, and judging everything against a standard we don't even know, much less try to meet.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:

---

Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire



I agree wholeheartedly! That's why we like our Poll options. You are limited in what you can choose, but you sill have a wide variety of combo-classes to choose from nonetheless. If a DM started me off in this scenario, then I'd be thrilled at the challenge. Why must anyone have to play D&D in a comfort zone? Are we all supposed to win all the time? Defeat without death is a Hero's calling. And if you die by 2nd level, then so be it. Be a professional and have a back up PC that the DM knows about and can put the new PC into the game in case of death.

All PC's should have this if you're going into a long Adventure, Module whatever.

---

I'd not call it a wide variety when it's all X/Sacred Fist/Y.

And not wanting to be forced into a character concept that has absolutely no interest for me has nothing to do with winning all the time or wanting to be in a comfort zone.

PCs should not be forced into arbitrary choice purely to satisfy the DM. With this poll, you're putting yourself as a DM and saying "I've made your characters for you, without your input. Now, play this railroaded campaign that I came up with."

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:

---

Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire



I agree wholeheartedly! That's why we like our Poll options. You are limited in what you can choose, but you sill have a wide variety of combo-classes to choose from nonetheless. If a DM started me off in this scenario, then I'd be thrilled at the challenge. Why must anyone have to play D&D in a comfort zone? Are we all supposed to win all the time? Defeat without death is a Hero's calling. And if you die by 2nd level, then so be it. Be a professional and have a back up PC that the DM knows about and can put the new PC into the game in case of death.

All PC's should have this if you're going into a long Adventure, Module whatever.

---

I'd not call it a wide variety when it's all X/Sacred Fist/Y.

And not wanting to be forced into a character concept that has absolutely no interest for me has nothing to do with winning all the time or wanting to be in a comfort zone.

PCs should not be forced into arbitrary choice purely to satisfy the DM. With this poll, you're putting yourself as a DM and saying "I've made your characters for you, without your input. Now, play this railroaded campaign that I came up with."

---

quote:

---

I don't see why a bunch of 20th level slavers are going to be looking to sell another level 20 character.

---

quote:

---

The reason was that, while they generally devoted their military efforts to fighting cloakers, svirfneblin, and other competing civilizations of the Underdark, drow cities on rare occasions waged war on one another. Once in a while, such conflicts yielded female prisoners.

The prudent, legitimate thing to do with such potentially dangerous captives was interrogate, torture, and kill them. That fact notwithstanding, Nym had on several occasions managed to bribe officers to give him their prisoners, whom he then smuggled into Menzoberranzan and down to the cellar of the Jewel Box.

Nym had gone to all this trouble based on the shrewd and well-proven assumption that a goodly number of Menzoberranyr males would pay handsomely for the privilege of dominating a female, and in his establishment, one could do anything one wanted with a captive. Nym would even provide a customer with a bastinado, a brazier of coals, thumbscrews . . . his only stipulation being that one must pay a surcharge if one left a permanent mark.

Since the brothel's existence was an open secret, Pharaun wasn't sure why the matron mothers hadn't shut it down. On the face of it, it certainly seemed to encourage disrespect for the ruling gender. Perhaps they felt that if a male had a refuge in which to act out his resentments, it would make him all the more deferential to the females in his home. More likely, Nym was slipping them a substantial portion of the take.

At any rate, the Jewel Box seemed a reasonable place to seek information concerning rogue males, especially if one had a spy in place. Pharaun wasn't confident that he did anymore, but one never knew.

The stairs emptied into a hallway of numbered doors. Moans of passions and grunts of pain sounded faintly from behind several of them. It was busier than usual.

The mage strolled down the passage until he found number fourteen. He hesitated for an instant, then scowled and turned the largest of his keys in the lock. The door swung open.

Seated on the bed, shackles clutching her wrists and ankles, Pellanistra looked much as he remembered, the same powerful, shapely limbs and heart-shaped face, with only a few more scars where one or another of her visitors had pressed down too hard, as well as a split lip and closed, puffy eye where a more recent caller had beaten her.

She lifted her face, saw him, and charged with her long-nailed hands outstretched. Then she staggered as one of her governing enchantments riddled her body with pain, and an instant later hit the end of the chains securing her to the wall. She lost her balance and fell on her rump. (War of the Spider Queen Book 1: Dissolution, pp.33-4)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by cpthero2

Master Rupert,

I only take exception to one point you made here, which is in defiance of established canon:

quote:

---

I don't see why a bunch of 20th level slavers are going to be looking to sell another level 20 character.

---

There was a scene in War of the Spider Queen Book 1: Dissolution that clearly describes why a slaver would in fact sell someone of power, i.e. the vaunted level referred too in this scroll.

quote:

---

The reason was that, while they generally devoted their military efforts to fighting cloakers, svirfneblin, and other competing civilizations of the Underdark, drow cities on rare occasions waged war on one another. Once in a while, such conflicts yielded female prisoners.

The prudent, legitimate thing to do with such potentially dangerous captives was interrogate, torture, and kill them. That fact notwithstanding, Nym had on several occasions managed to bribe officers to give him their prisoners, whom he then smuggled into Menzoberranzan and down to the cellar of the Jewel Box.

Nym had gone to all this trouble based on the shrewd and well-proven assumption that a goodly number of Menzoberranyr males would pay handsomely for the privilege of dominating a female, and in his establishment, one could do anything one wanted with a captive. Nym would even provide a customer with a bastinado, a brazier of coals, thumbscrews . . . his only stipulation being that one must pay a surcharge if one left a permanent mark.

Since the brothel's existence was an open secret, Pharaun wasn't sure why the matron mothers hadn't shut it down. On the face of it, it certainly seemed to encourage disrespect for the ruling gender. Perhaps they felt that if a male had a refuge in which to act out his resentments, it would make him all the more deferential to the females in his home. More likely, Nym was slipping them a substantial portion of the take.

At any rate, the Jewel Box seemed a reasonable place to seek information concerning rogue males, especially if one had a spy in place. Pharaun wasn't confident that he did anymore, but one never knew.

The stairs emptied into a hallway of numbered doors. Moans of passions and grunts of pain sounded faintly from behind several of them. It was busier than usual.

The mage strolled down the passage until he found number fourteen. He hesitated for an instant, then scowled and turned the largest of his keys in the lock. The door swung open.

Seated on the bed, shackles clutching her wrists and ankles, Pellanistra looked much as he remembered, the same powerful, shapely limbs and heart-shaped face, with only a few more scars where one or another of her visitors had pressed down too hard, as well as a split lip and closed, puffy eye where a more recent caller had beaten her.

She lifted her face, saw him, and charged with her long-nailed hands outstretched. Then she staggered as one of her governing enchantments riddled her body with pain, and an instant later hit the end of the chains securing her to the wall. She lost her balance and fell on her rump. (War of the Spider Queen Book 1: Dissolution, pp.33-4)

---

That thoroughly answers why slavers would want to sell a powerful person, in the case of the book, a powerful Drow female priestess: to repeatedly rape her in perpetuity for the purpose of dominance, money, and because their evil and like to cause pain, as was stated and/or implied.

Power and dominance are why people do horrid, evil, unspeakable things like what Bob and Richard wrote about in that book.

As always, I await your rebuttal.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:

---

Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire



I agree wholeheartedly! That's why we like our Poll options. You are limited in what you can choose, but you sill have a wide variety of combo-classes to choose from nonetheless. If a DM started me off in this scenario, then I'd be thrilled at the challenge. Why must anyone have to play D&D in a comfort zone? Are we all supposed to win all the time? Defeat without death is a Hero's calling. And if you die by 2nd level, then so be it. Be a professional and have a back up PC that the DM knows about and can put the new PC into the game in case of death.

All PC's should have this if you're going into a long Adventure, Module whatever.

---

I'd not call it a wide variety when it's all X/Sacred Fist/Y.

And not wanting to be forced into a character concept that has absolutely no interest for me has nothing to do with winning all the time or wanting to be in a comfort zone.

PCs should not be forced into arbitrary choice purely to satisfy the DM. With this poll, you're putting yourself as a DM and saying "I've made your characters for you, without your input. Now, play this railroaded campaign that I came up with."

---

Epic level slavers take epic level PC's and NPC's all the time in FR. Jeesh!!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:

---

Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I think if you're 20th level, it doesn't really matter what the class is -- you should be able to escape some slavers fairly readily.

The only way I see it being an issue is if you're a mage with 0 prepped spells, zero magical contingencies, and no feats that give spells automatically, or if you've got some weird class where you're awesome with one specific item and useless without it.

---

Not quite sure what epic games you play, but in order to "capture" and enslave a 20th level PC the villains must be equal to the task. I mean, what is everyone thinking?... A group of 7th level Thayan Slavers sell you to a group of 5th level drow slavers? LOL!!!

I said above that whatever choice you make in the poll, you are a 20th level PC. Which, in most intelligent games, means you are going against high-level or epic monsters or humanoids.

A band of 20th level slavers can mop the floor with a single epic PC with no problem.

---

I don't see why a bunch of 20th level slavers are going to be looking to sell another level 20 character. Part of the point of being a slaver is taking someone that can't fight back and selling them to people they can't fight. There's not going to be a market for 20th-level slaves.

And because slavers focus on those weaker, they're generally not all that high in level, themselves.

Lastly, there's not a huge number of characters wandering about in Skullport that are capable of handling a 20th-level slave.

So yes, given that slavers are general not powerful and that there are huge numbers of epic level characters wandering around, it is not unreasonable to think that you're proposing 7th level slavers and 5th level drow.

You don't seem to realize that few people here play epic games, and I suspect the few who do still don't play epic games the way you do. You're basically playing a different game than everyone here, and judging everything against a standard we don't even know, much less try to meet.

---

Absolutely and ludicrously not the case. Although I respect your opinion, you cannot single us out when I'm the only one posting about our Many-Years Campaign so far. We play the same melee combat you do I assure you. We play the same spell combat as you do, from ranged spell combat to melee-spell combat. We use the same 3.5, D20 system that you do. I'm sorry you feel so heated about this matter, but I guess you play the same system differently.

Isn't D&D supposed to be a game where you can take the basic rules and turn them into your own idea if you choose to do so? You can vamp and you can tweek and you can edit on DM's rules and supplimations with the PC's consent.

I thought Homebrew was cool here. And not just some crazy homebrew with a tag-line of FR, but the real deal, using the D20 system. With Canon lore galore. lol. How can you throw me under the bus and say I or my friends play differently than anyone else on Candlekeep? That is a very strange thing to say for a FR fantasy setting using the correct systems of game play and valid lore. WE basically just weave ourselves into the storylines of current worldly events. You know... High-level game play.

I Can't imagine Candlekeep being so selective

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire


Yes, yes and yes!! I take any challenge put before me. I care not how I start off. Do you?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire

quote:

---

Originally posted by Diffan

I'd vote but Unarmed Swordsage/master of nine isn't an option, because being able to call forth maneuvers, stances, and all sorts of shadow jaunting shenanigans is awesome

---

That is totally a great combo indeed, but you're a slave... weaponless and armorless. A Sacred Fist is fully geared towards such combat, not to mention your divine spells that only require praying and not components and such.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:

---

Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire



I agree wholeheartedly! That's why we like our Poll options. You are limited in what you can choose, but you sill have a wide variety of combo-classes to choose from nonetheless. If a DM started me off in this scenario, then I'd be thrilled at the challenge. Why must anyone have to play D&D in a comfort zone? Are we all supposed to win all the time? Defeat without death is a Hero's calling. And if you die by 2nd level, then so be it. Be a professional and have a back up PC that the DM knows about and can put the new PC into the game in case of death.

All PC's should have this if you're going into a long Adventure, Module whatever.

---

I'd not call it a wide variety when it's all X/Sacred Fist/Y.

And not wanting to be forced into a character concept that has absolutely no interest for me has nothing to do with winning all the time or wanting to be in a comfort zone.

PCs should not be forced into arbitrary choice purely to satisfy the DM. With this poll, you're putting yourself as a DM and saying "I've made your characters for you, without your input. Now, play this railroaded campaign that I came up with."

---

Cool, I dig your point. I'm saying we don't play like that. Being forced into arbitrary choice is still a choice. I take it you've never been in a campaign where you start off as a slave? Ok, cool. No problem. What happens is this... You're an epic slave that wakes up in chains in Skullport. Epic level slavers take epic level PC's and NPC's all the time in FR. Jeesh!! You have special chains that somehow suppress your morale.

Do you really want to be a Wizard or Bladesinger when you don't have spall components or swords and daggers? lmao. Some of you seem to not understand our typical D20 game-play. As a Rogue you can eventually, at some point be resourceful enough to break your bonds. Once free... the best suited individual would be a Divine Caster/ roguish class/ Sacred Fist type character, so you can slip-imprisonment, cast a spell or two before you turn into a desperate flurry of fists, elbows, knees, and feet, without needing armor or hand held weapons.

Sorry I didn't put anything you wanted. The whole point is that you have to choose the lot in life for this one scenario you have. Make the best of it or fail. Again... to me, that would be fun. I'll take that challenge. If you start a new game with your friends, or if you play a game at a local Gencon... my PC's and their classes are never a problem in game system play.

Maybe Our CR system is more skewed than yours. For that I can only say that I'm sorry for your bad luck. I like the concept of Erevan Ilesere being "supposedly" murdered by Grummsh in the 15'th Century DR. I can only imagine our opposing DM trying to thwart us with difficulty.

Like I've said before in other threads... "The Greatest Trick Erevan Ilesere ever played on us was the fact the he never existed at all."

Sorry for the bible reference, but all game play and mythology are quite alike in the end.

If you play D&D... especially 3.5ED, D&D, D20 system then you know a CR isn't the same as HD. You can be a Nycoloth with 12 HD and be a CR 25 due to class levels... which would make said Nycaloth a Captain or Lord possibly. To us a CR 20 or beyond is epic.

Are you on constant vigilance as a rogue? Do you pay more attention to the battle coming, or the trap before you?

When it comes to Skill-Tricks... How do you use them? Do you use them correctly? Don't even get me started on Skill-Feats and how to use them.

Well friends, I hope that helps.

CEV

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:

---

Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:

---

Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire



I agree wholeheartedly! That's why we like our Poll options. You are limited in what you can choose, but you sill have a wide variety of combo-classes to choose from nonetheless. If a DM started me off in this scenario, then I'd be thrilled at the challenge. Why must anyone have to play D&D in a comfort zone? Are we all supposed to win all the time? Defeat without death is a Hero's calling. And if you die by 2nd level, then so be it. Be a professional and have a back up PC that the DM knows about and can put the new PC into the game in case of death.

All PC's should have this if you're going into a long Adventure, Module whatever.

---

I'd not call it a wide variety when it's all X/Sacred Fist/Y.

And not wanting to be forced into a character concept that has absolutely no interest for me has nothing to do with winning all the time or wanting to be in a comfort zone.

PCs should not be forced into arbitrary choice purely to satisfy the DM. With this poll, you're putting yourself as a DM and saying "I've made your characters for you, without your input. Now, play this railroaded campaign that I came up with."

---

Epic level slavers take epic level PC's and NPC's all the time in FR. Jeesh!!

---

Really? Canon examples, please.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:

---

Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:

---

Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I think if you're 20th level, it doesn't really matter what the class is -- you should be able to escape some slavers fairly readily.

The only way I see it being an issue is if you're a mage with 0 prepped spells, zero magical contingencies, and no feats that give spells automatically, or if you've got some weird class where you're awesome with one specific item and useless without it.

---

Not quite sure what epic games you play, but in order to "capture" and enslave a 20th level PC the villains must be equal to the task. I mean, what is everyone thinking?... A group of 7th level Thayan Slavers sell you to a group of 5th level drow slavers? LOL!!!

I said above that whatever choice you make in the poll, you are a 20th level PC. Which, in most intelligent games, means you are going against high-level or epic monsters or humanoids.

A band of 20th level slavers can mop the floor with a single epic PC with no problem.

---

I don't see why a bunch of 20th level slavers are going to be looking to sell another level 20 character. Part of the point of being a slaver is taking someone that can't fight back and selling them to people they can't fight. There's not going to be a market for 20th-level slaves.

And because slavers focus on those weaker, they're generally not all that high in level, themselves.

Lastly, there's not a huge number of characters wandering about in Skullport that are capable of handling a 20th-level slave.

So yes, given that slavers are general not powerful and that there are huge numbers of epic level characters wandering around, it is not unreasonable to think that you're proposing 7th level slavers and 5th level drow.

You don't seem to realize that few people here play epic games, and I suspect the few who do still don't play epic games the way you do. You're basically playing a different game than everyone here, and judging everything against a standard we don't even know, much less try to meet.

---

Absolutely and ludicrously not the case. Although I respect your opinion, you cannot single us out when I'm the only one posting about our Many-Years Campaign so far. We play the same melee combat you do I assure you. We play the same spell combat as you do, from ranged spell combat to melee-spell combat. We use the same 3.5, D20 system that you do. I'm sorry you feel so heated about this matter, but I guess you play the same system differently.

Isn't D&D supposed to be a game where you can take the basic rules and turn them into your own idea if you choose to do so? You can vamp and you can tweek and you can edit on DM's rules and supplimations with the PC's consent.

I thought Homebrew was cool here. And not just some crazy homebrew with a tag-line of FR, but the real deal, using the D20 system. With Canon lore galore. lol. How can you throw me under the bus and say I or my friends play differently than anyone else on Candlekeep? That is a very strange thing to say for a FR fantasy setting using the correct systems of game play and valid lore. WE basically just weave ourselves into the storylines of current worldly events. You know... High-level game play.

I Can't imagine Candlekeep being so selective

---

You're the only one being selective, here, with this extremely limited set of choices.

I'm saying that most people here start at level one or level three, work their way up to some level that's not epic, and then the campaign ends. Or maybe they do hit epic levels, but then the campaign ends shortly after that.

Starting off epic is very uncommon.

And saying it's bad luck that I've never played in a campaign like yours? What the smurf is that? I haven't seen anything you've written that would interest me in playing at your table -- and certainly not this "epic slavery" idea.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by LordofBones

quote:

---

Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:

---

Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire



I agree wholeheartedly! That's why we like our Poll options. You are limited in what you can choose, but you sill have a wide variety of combo-classes to choose from nonetheless. If a DM started me off in this scenario, then I'd be thrilled at the challenge. Why must anyone have to play D&D in a comfort zone? Are we all supposed to win all the time? Defeat without death is a Hero's calling. And if you die by 2nd level, then so be it. Be a professional and have a back up PC that the DM knows about and can put the new PC into the game in case of death.

All PC's should have this if you're going into a long Adventure, Module whatever.

---

I'd not call it a wide variety when it's all X/Sacred Fist/Y.

And not wanting to be forced into a character concept that has absolutely no interest for me has nothing to do with winning all the time or wanting to be in a comfort zone.

PCs should not be forced into arbitrary choice purely to satisfy the DM. With this poll, you're putting yourself as a DM and saying "I've made your characters for you, without your input. Now, play this railroaded campaign that I came up with."

---

Cool, I dig your point. I'm saying we don't play like that. Being forced into arbitrary choice is still a choice. I take it you've never been in a campaign where you start off as a slave? Ok, cool. No problem. What happens is this... You're an epic slave that wakes up in chains in Skullport. Epic level slavers take epic level PC's and NPC's all the time in FR. Jeesh!! You have special chains that somehow suppress your morale.

Do you really want to be a Wizard or Bladesinger when you don't have spall components or swords and daggers? lmao. Some of you seem to not understand our typical D20 game-play. As a Rogue you can eventually, at some point be resourceful enough to break your bonds. Once free... the best suited individual would be a Divine Caster/ roguish class/ Sacred Fist type character, so you can slip-imprisonment, cast a spell or two before you turn into a desperate flurry of fists, elbows, knees, and feet, without needing armor or hand held weapons.

Sorry I didn't put anything you wanted. The whole point is that you have to choose the lot in life for this one scenario you have. Make the best of it or fail. Again... to me, that would be fun. I'll take that challenge. If you start a new game with your friends, or if you play a game at a local Gencon... my PC's and their classes are never a problem in game system play.

Maybe Our CR system is more skewed than yours. For that I can only say that I'm sorry for your bad luck. I like the concept of Erevan Ilesere being "supposedly" murdered by Grummsh in the 15'th Century DR. I can only imagine our opposing DM trying to thwart us with difficulty.

Like I've said before in other threads... "The Greatest Trick Erevan Ilesere ever played on us was the fact the he never existed at all."

Sorry for the bible reference, but all game play and mythology are quite alike in the end.

If you play D&D... especially 3.5ED, D&D, D20 system then you know a CR isn't the same as HD. You can be a Nycoloth with 12 HD and be a CR 25 due to class levels... which would make said Nycaloth a Captain or Lord possibly. To us a CR 20 or beyond is epic.

Are you on constant vigilance as a rogue? Do you pay more attention to the battle coming, or the trap before you?

When it comes to Skill-Tricks... How do you use them? Do you use them correctly? Don't even get me started on Skill-Feats and how to use them.

Well friends, I hope that helps.

CEV

---

You keep saying the same thing, but that doesn't hold water. By your logic, a fighter could just flex and break out of his bonds, then proceed to beat the slavers to death by using one as an improvised blunt weapon. So can a monk - a monk/cleric/sacred fist is actually one of the more powerful builds around.

Meanwhile, what if the rogue has his fingers broken or is paralyzed? Or the cleric has his holy symbol confiscated? This also discludes the array of spells that can be prepared without components, contingent spells, Still and Silent Spell, and so on.

And then there's the Book of Nine Swords.

---