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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Mar 2020 : 20:30:31
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Good afternoon everyone,
As I was thinking about other topics today (in the other posts I've made) I got to wondering why technology through magic is not more utilized? Tomes are slow to make, costly per unit, slow to make available to the public, heavy, and take up lots of space. Why hasn't magic been utilized more to create what amounts to databases and modalities for accessing said information?
The problems described above would be solved and increase the ability for people to access that knowledge if a different approach to distributing knowledge was created, which you would think would be spearheaded by the Church of Oghma, in lieu of making these stodgy, difficult to access locations that are more a barrier to access than anything.
Thoughts?
Best regards,
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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ElfBane
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2020 : 22:06:20
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| Knowledge Is Power. That's your answer. |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2020 : 22:11:22
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Learned Scribe ElfBane,
I completely agree with you. By declaring that "Knowledge is Power. That's your answer.", what's your view on using magic as technology in order to get illusory copies for poor people in other parts of the Realms, to promote greater literacy rates, and to make open to the public, the holdings of the major libraries?
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by ElfBane
Knowledge Is Power. That's your answer.
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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SaMoCon
Senior Scribe
USA
403 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2020 : 02:21:23
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Expense is still expense. Even the cheapest permanent magical item that can pass on intelligence should be about 500gp. Even the use of a spell that specifically copies a text onto a blank medium costs 150gp for the service of the spell alone for making a single copy. Ergo, the technology of magic is expensive and prohibitively so for solving the problem of books to expensive for the poor.
That said, there are cheaper alternatives to expensive books and again we can turn to the real world for historical examples. The use of contrasting slates & chalk, soft waxes & clays to be carved inside of diptych enclosures, and peeled barks or easily gouged stones can all provide useful surfaces to get the word out to the masses without great costs. Of course, these materials have other problems in portability, unwieldy sizes, durability, and the like, but they do serve their purposes well when these are taken into consideration for specific project goals. |
Make the best use of the system that's there, then modify the mechanics that don't allow you to have the fun you are looking for. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2020 : 03:05:05
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| Why hasn't magic been used to make something better? Because no one has seen a need to make something better. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2020 : 07:11:37
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Master Rupert,
Is that because the need to make something better is going against the grain of things being good worldwide as they are at the moment, you feel?
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Why hasn't magic been used to make something better? Because no one has seen a need to make something better.
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2020 : 09:45:47
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quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Master Rupert,
Is that because the need to make something better is going against the grain of things being good worldwide as they are at the moment, you feel?
No, I think that people in the Realms aren't looking at books and thinking that there has to be some better method of distributing information.
Most people in the Realms are concerned with their lives and their communities. It's simply not going to occur to them to think that there is a reason to share information with a nation 1000 miles away. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2020 : 12:53:16
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| Because Ed is a librarian who values books and all the enrichment they bring very highly and this is his world. |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2020 : 19:58:41
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Learned Scribe SaMoCon,
I'm glad you responded: thank you! :)
quote:
Expense is still expense. Even the cheapest permanent magical item that can pass on intelligence should be about 500gp.
Let's take a look at expenses first so we can get an idea of proportionality:
- Cost of a 200 page book: 300 gp (Aurora's Whole Realms Catalogue, p.67)
- Time to write a book by a scribe of 200 pages was approximately 2 months, without illumination, binding, etc. (Medieval Manuscript Production: Scribes, Illuminators and Their Methods of Work by Duchess Althea Charle, O.L & The History of Visual Communication, Sabanci University, Istanbul, Turkey)
- Cost of a 1st level wizard to cast Amanuensis, 5 gp per casting (https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Spellcasting_and_Services)
- Rod of Amanuensis: 9,000 GP
So, looking at all that, you could produce a book by purchasing papyrus for 160 GP for 200 pages (8" x 8"), and then having it copied in 4 hours at a rate of 250 WPM. The cost of that first level wizard casting Amanuensis (24) times to get the book copied would be 120 GP. Even if you look at the cost of illuminating and binding being 30 GP, the fact that people can get a book in a couple of days as opposed to a few months is amazing and well worth the extra 30 GP.
Furthermore, at least according to Aurora's Whole Realm's Catalogue, poor people are not getting books when they are that expensive (300'ish GP). When you look at "As in the medieval society modeled in the DUNGEON MASTER'S Guide, the standard wage for a day laborer is a single silver piece.", you can quickly see that is pushing a decade to get a book. I don't feel there is a lot of stock in the argument for the poor getting a good deal. That's what leads me to the idea of illusions for books.
A Rod Amanuensis at 9,000 GP and a Rod of Permanency (approximately 60,000) would ensure that an illusory book using the spell Silent Image could be created. At a fixed cost for the Rods which run forever, you could create an infinite amount of books, and sell them for reasonable amounts knowing you would gain your money back after not too long at all. In fact, with rotating interns, etc., you could produce (6) books a day, or 2,160 books a year. Selling at even 100 GP would net you a breakeven at 690 books of 200 pages each. After that, it is all profit and you could set up a deal from through the Churches of Oghma and Deneir to distribute books for nominal prices to municipalities, districts, etc.
There is also the option of a Rod of Permanent Image too.
Thoughts?
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by SaMoCon
Expense is still expense. Even the cheapest permanent magical item that can pass on intelligence should be about 500gp. Even the use of a spell that specifically copies a text onto a blank medium costs 150gp for the service of the spell alone for making a single copy. Ergo, the technology of magic is expensive and prohibitively so for solving the problem of books to expensive for the poor.
That said, there are cheaper alternatives to expensive books and again we can turn to the real world for historical examples. The use of contrasting slates & chalk, soft waxes & clays to be carved inside of diptych enclosures, and peeled barks or easily gouged stones can all provide useful surfaces to get the word out to the masses without great costs. Of course, these materials have other problems in portability, unwieldy sizes, durability, and the like, but they do serve their purposes well when these are taken into consideration for specific project goals.
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2020 : 20:01:48
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Master Rupert,
I completely agree. That's why I made an argument to Learned Scribe SaMoCon that after paying off the initial investment, the Churches of Oghma and Deneir could turn the rods to the benefit of needy communities where poverty and illiteracy are rampant. Having an infinite amount of books helping children and the indigent would be pretty awesome, and I am sure many other gods would be onboard with that too.
Thoughts?
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Master Rupert,
Is that because the need to make something better is going against the grain of things being good worldwide as they are at the moment, you feel?
No, I think that people in the Realms aren't looking at books and thinking that there has to be some better method of distributing information.
Most people in the Realms are concerned with their lives and their communities. It's simply not going to occur to them to think that there is a reason to share information with a nation 1000 miles away.
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2020 : 21:28:58
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quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Master Rupert,
I completely agree. That's why I made an argument to Learned Scribe SaMoCon that after paying off the initial investment, the Churches of Oghma and Deneir could turn the rods to the benefit of needy communities where poverty and illiteracy are rampant. Having an infinite amount of books helping children and the indigent would be pretty awesome, and I am sure many other gods would be onboard with that too.
To what end? Just being able to read isn't going to help these poverty-stricken folks. Most people in the Realms can go weeks or months, even years, without ever needing to read a single page -- and they can still be quite successful.
The written word has no power for people that don't need it.
Also, most deities don't have anything to do with written material, so most deities wouldn't have a need to support this -- they might in fact oppose having Denier and Oghma muscling in on their turf. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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SaMoCon
Senior Scribe
USA
403 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2020 : 00:05:34
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quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Cost of a 1st level wizard to cast Amanuensis
Amanuensis is now a 1st level spell? I've always had it as a 3rd level spell. Is this something else that got changed for no good reason? Other than Amanuensis being rendered... a cantrip, by the way you are writing (again, a failure by game designers for breaking what was an appropriately placed 3rd level spell rendered all the more odd because Erase is a 1st level spell), you still need the medium. Your example of the 1st level wizard would still need 8 days because of his daily spell limits on cantrips. Higher level wizards with higher spell capacities would cost more.
Other than that, you are right and wrong on several of your thoughts. TOMES carefully scribed are expensive to make. The writer is paid for the care in which the words are inscribed to fill the pages without mistakes, the codex is bound with protective covers & filled with high quality pages, and all of this was commissioned for some great work of intelligence. IRL, books were expensive even after the inventions of printing presses, movable typesets, cellulose paper, and specialized inks that did not seep through paper all the way up to the Industrial Revolution. It still blows my mind that the first library in the 18th century American colonies was started by affluent colonials lead by Ben Franklin pooling their resources together because separately they could not afford the books they wanted to read!
But writings are inexpensive. Any literate child can do them on mediums outside of the highly expensive codex. See my post above. And even the pages of parchment & vellum from old can be scrubbed to be used again which reduces the costs of tomes over time. Look up "palimpsest" to know these treasures exist from the frugal practice of reusing books whose contents are obsolete or out of fashion.
Once you start talking about making RODS... AGAIN, there are cheaper and more efficient ways that do not rely on magic or highly skilled magic-users expending 500XP (at standard rates of 5gp per xp that would be 2,500gp (as per the SRD on your link)) per use. Requiring magic really excludes the majority of the population and further slows down the process of disseminating knowledge. Worse, there are cultures that have strong taboos regarding magic & magical things written into the FR. Burning the books because they are made by magic is also a dampener on that "spreading the knowledge" thing. Our modern, technologically advanced world still uses teachers as the primary drivers of education with the books supplementing them & their efforts instead of the other way around.
Now there ARE magical items in the realms that serve as mediums for writings that are not in the codex format. One such item found its way into my list of Art Objects:quote:
Sarphil's Crystal Library
A transparent hexagonal crystal with a mirror like reflection caused by a silvery liquid sloshing inside. Made of elvish Theurglass, letters and words form on the facet surfaces for any stored book what's title is spoken by the holder. A user turns the crystal for new lines to form on the newly orientated facets like reading a scroll.
Others use illusory scripts, liquids, fire, mental inference, and a host of other wondrous means that the writers deign to use for conveying how otherworldly & fantastic the FR is. Very few of them fall into the neatly codified, tactical game matrix that D&D has been using. And all of them are rare or precious items.
The realms also does have printing presses from the crude carved wood block presses that make the very cheap "chapbooks" of Waterdeep to the more sophisticated metal presses of Lantan that the owners of the FR decided to wipe off the face of Faerun in the RSEs of the 4th & 5th editions.
Even with the presence of both magic & technology, most books are still manually written. At the end of it all, the reason is still expense. One thing I think most fail to realize is that the D&D game and pricing have MSRPs listed for adventurers because they are on demand, non-repeating customers whereas the rest of the fictional world gets the "friends & family" or "repeat business" discounts for common goods & services. I am sure the wizards academies of Halruaa do not have to pay list price for the bundles of books they buy every year for their students just like the Defense Ministry of Cormyr is not charged list price for the armor & weapons that outfit the Purple Dragons. |
Make the best use of the system that's there, then modify the mechanics that don't allow you to have the fun you are looking for. |
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe
USA
958 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2020 : 23:48:09
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| I remember when amanuensis was a 3rd level divine spell exclusive to the priests of Deneir. I believe Faiths & Avatars was the source. Scribes, corrections would be appreciated. Deneir evidently got many requests to extend amanuensis to magical writings, all of which were steadfastly denied. |
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe
USA
958 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2020 : 23:52:57
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quote:
Originally posted by ElfBane
Knowledge Is Power. That's your answer.
I get a chuckle over the drow version: "Knowledge is power. Power is never shared."  |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2428 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2020 : 13:06:44
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There's also "Knowledge is power. Guard it well." 
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Tomes are slow to make, costly per unit, slow to make available to the public, heavy, and take up lots of space. Why hasn't magic been utilized more to create what amounts to databases and modalities for accessing said information?
Because enchantments are far more expensive than some paper and services of a scribe?
That said, elves sort of did - they made kiira. Note that those things never were common.
The known kiira users are... High Mages, noble Houses and certain services of elven governments. That is, those who both could afford investment and obviously had enough to gain that they could not refuse this option.
Sensates seem to have replicated kiira in a way allowing to produce them by thousands, and easy to use at that (reading is like scrying, just stare in a crystal until it starts, and recording is almost as straightforward).
But their version had to cut lots of corners, thus aside of lacking extra fancy functions (spell memorization, sinking into flesh, any sort of autonomous activity):
- Each gem holds only one memory stream record.
- It works at all only in a sensorium, i.e. relies on the external spell field (which obviously saves on adding those enchantments on every single gem). Granted, for the Sensates it's not a disadvantage. 
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People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
Edited by - TBeholder on 17 Mar 2020 13:10:11 |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2020 : 23:41:53
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Master Rupert,
quote:
To what end? Just being able to read isn't going to help these poverty-stricken folks.
I am surprised by your response, I must say.
Wouldn't doing the Lord's good work (Lord Oghma, Deneir, Waukeen perhaps, and even Ilmater) and feeling that sense of moral goodness be enough for you and them? Lifting the indigent, suffering, and poorly equipped out of the shadows of marginal living to a place of great enlightenment would be a gift unto its own. Surely you don't argue that leaving these poor people to their illiterate or underserved ends is the right answer, surely?!
Wherever did you come to the viewpoint that just being able to read isn't going to help poverty stricken people become wealthier, have a better life, or dare I say.... soulfully more happy for the rich, amazing stories they will have read?
Irony apparently seems to be a profound meal today as it is served within these literate halls of Candlekeep. ;)
quote:
Most people in the Realms can go weeks or months, even years, without ever needing to read a single page -- and they can still be quite successful.
Master Rupert, again, I am shocked.
Just because someone can endure, does it mean they should if there is a better path? Do we keep people from reading, because they simply can? I think the scripture of Ilmater beckons thee, oh Meister of the Book at Candlekeep. ;)
quote:
The written word has no power for people that don't need it.
Ahhh....yes, wasn't that the belief of nobility back in "noble times"? Keep those pesky illiterates to the good hard work of the lord while those "best suited" do the hard work their poor, incapable minds couldn't be possibly suited to do? Hold on a second here...I think someones at the door...oh my! It's a local clergy member of the Church of Siamorphe!!! :)
quote:
Also, most deities don't have anything to do with written material, so most deities wouldn't have a need to support this -- they might in fact oppose having Denier and Oghma muscling in on their turf.
Oh, well, there is nothing wrong with a good fight! :) I am sure Lord's Oghma and Deneir can avail themselves with great honor in the face of such anti-literacy cowards! Plus, who would they truly be if they acquiesced to some muscle becoming offended and perhaps even violent when their stated mission is to ensure that books and knowledge be made available to all and promulgated as far as can be? :)
Best regards,
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2020 : 02:54:13
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You are so badly misreading my post I have to wonder if it's deliberate.
Just because someone can read doesn't mean they have access to books. It doesn't mean they have time to read those books. It doesn't mean they have any other skills that can translate into something marketable.
And when books are not a common commodity and most people can work for months on end without ever seeing one, then there are very few opportunities to do anything at all with reading.
That's the point I was trying to make and that you seem to be ignoring. Most jobs in the Realms have absolutely nothing to do with reading, and books are simply out of reach for a lot of people.
It's not trying to keep anyone down: a farmer or tavern maid or smith isn't going to have time to read, and their jobs don't require it.
Reading is not going to provide an economic benefit for someone not in a position to capitalize on what they're reading. The Realms is not industrialized enough to make mass production of books a cheap prospect, and it's not industrialized enough to give people the time to acquire skills from books. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 23 Mar 2020 03:10:48 |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2020 : 05:43:43
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Master Rupert,
I certainly don't deny there is some smattering of tongue and cheek in there, but there was as well some aspect of trying to bring in how other stakeholders in the world might look at it. :)
quote:
Just because someone can read doesn't mean they have access to books.
Exactly one of the points I was making as to why wizardly/priestly magics had not yet been introduced in a way as to help with the rarity of books. It really seems like many of those stakeholders would have made innovative discoveries by now.
quote:
It doesn't mean they have time to read those books.
Depending on the society, their laws, and how people go about living their lives, that may or may not be true. I find it hard to believe that the hyper enlightened societies such as Halruaa would not have an extremely well read society that reads quite often. Look at how their society is defined in the Shining South accessories. There are multiple societies that are described in a similar fashion in the Realms that begs the question: if reading is such a hard thing to do because of time, why are their societies described as being so well read, educated, and forward thinking? Pretty good for a bunch of illiterate people. ;)
quote:
It doesn't mean they have any other skills that can translate into something marketable.
You would be correct. However, looking at how literacy opens doors to new possibilities, it seems to silly to not push for such policy based changes. To lift those people out of the woeful ignorance and to allow them the same possibilities as those more fortunate.
quote:
And when books are not a common commodity and most people can work for months on end without ever seeing one, then there are very few opportunities to do anything at all with reading.
This is yet another reason I feel that some religion, activist group, etc. would have led the charge to find a way to make it where books could be a common commodity. Look at the Gutenberg Press as an example. It started out small, and..... here we are. :)
quote:
That's the point I was trying to make and that you seem to be ignoring. Most jobs in the Realms have absolutely nothing to do with reading, and books are simply out of reach for a lot of people.
My point is that that seems odd. It completely glosses over many examples of many stakeholders who would see the value in educating the masses, with powerbases to make it so, i.e. Oghma/Deneir followers, wizards who get the fever for helping people out, etc.
quote:
It's not trying to keep anyone down: a farmer or tavern maid or smith isn't going to have time to read, and their jobs don't require it.
I know farmers, waitresses (but no smiths currently) that read, after work. I would imagine there is time for these folk to read, unless there is something else going in the Realms that I've yet to read about that just makes it too hard to read because of work. :)
quote:
Reading is not going to provide an economic benefit for someone not in a position to capitalize on what they're reading.
Pants. To argue that one should only read what would economically benefit them, as long as they can capitalize on it is analogous to not reading books on becoming an airline pilot, because you don't own a Boeing 737.
Just because a book is not valuable in the moment, doesn't mean it wouldn't be life changing in the near future. I didn't immediately capitalize on my first logic course in college, until it laid the groundwork for further successes. The economic benefit that was capitalized upon learning that material wasn't realized until later in life.
quote:
The Realms is not industrialized enough to make mass production of books a cheap prospect, and it's not industrialized enough to give people the time to acquire skills from books.
I agree there. The question I am getting at is....why? Magic is technology in the Realms. There should have been some activist group, religious order, university funded by philanthropists, that would have brought such amazing changes to the world by now.
Thoughts?
Best regards,
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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SaMoCon
Senior Scribe
USA
403 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2020 : 23:34:26
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quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
... There should have been some activist group, religious order, university funded by philanthropists, that would have brought such amazing changes to the world by now.
 ... It was called the "Netherese Empire." To a lesser or greater extent (depending on what one would call "amazing changes") there were also the elven kingdoms of old that had erected the first mythals. After the elven magicks became the first WMDs on par with strategic nuclear weapons in destroying the land, and Netheril left craters after incurring the life-draining wrath of otherworldly entities by using so much magic for everything in their lives, the 2nd goddess of magic nerfed all magic as an admonishment on all mortal beings. Magic got its bad reputation mostly from these events. Or, at least, that's the way the writing went.
And again, just to reiterate the point, magic is still the most expensive & least reliable way to get things done.
Now ask yourself why would people would want books? The most common answer is escapism or diversion, not self-improvement. Even the books that are there to help us are mostly in the category of a user's manual that take us through the operation of a tool we possess or are charged with operating as a cheaper alternative to a person instructing us in a step by step process. Very few are the books that teach skills & philosophies that the average person willingly spends their money on to take into their home without some outside pressure (i.e., a proficiency requirement for a job promotion or reading material for homework assignments).
Compound that line of thought with asking yourself why would people write books? Every craftsman & every professional has a valuable place in their society because of a LACK of competition. If other upstarts can learn their trade then these professionals can be crowded out of their means for supporting themselves. So, writing books about the skills & trade secrets that made one successful is akin to giving up one's livelihood as well as ensuring that there is no security for one's children whom could have taken up the family business. So, books that do not have a direct consequence on material production or compensation would be penned for public consumption. Furthermore, words that can be read as offensive or dangerous to authorities would be strictly controlled if not outright destroyed by leaders of all levels - we need no imagination to know the truth of this IRL with religious, secular, militant, and social leaders all declaring bans, destroying books, imprisoning/torturing readers, and imprisoning/killing authors.
So, with all the arguments made by multiple people as for why books would be expensive, why do you feel that they should be cheaper than a paperback children's book printed by a multimillion dollar press and the supply chain of people necessary for all the materials to be gathered & the final product to be shipped around the world? More to the point, why is this so important to you, cpthero2? Given the fact that literacy in D&D exceeds that of our modern world (only the Barbarian class is saddled with illiteracy amongst the standard PC & NPC classes) why do you think that it would change anything? |
Make the best use of the system that's there, then modify the mechanics that don't allow you to have the fun you are looking for. |
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2020 : 00:00:56
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| Well, books remind the average PC that anything is capable. I mean anything. It all depends on your DM in the end. |
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SaMoCon
Senior Scribe
USA
403 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2020 : 07:57:49
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CEV, can you elaborate a little more on your statement? Is this regarding the debate over the costs of codexes or the roles of books in the FR?
Are you saying that the Player Characters need a source for their inspirations? If that is what you are saying then isn't that accomplished by access to the FR's equivalent of movies & television - bards? They are repositories of knowledge, stories, and incredible feats delivered in an entertaining performance. That D&D class is influenced by the oral histories & oral traditions that have formed the basis of many real world cultures. Aside from true bards there are other story-tellers, puppeteers, criers, elders, proselytizers, and diversified orators plying their trades or fulfilling their roles throughout the realms. This form of disseminating knowledge can range from being free to a few coins in cost for a member of the audience. |
Make the best use of the system that's there, then modify the mechanics that don't allow you to have the fun you are looking for. |
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ElfBane
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2020 : 09:11:21
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@ cpthero2
The FR is a medieval fantasy gaming world. If you wish to "change" it, then do it within the gaming world. Create a campaign where "you" are the tiresome Ideologue trying to bring literacy to the unwashed masses.
Bring a lot of money. |
Edited by - ElfBane on 29 Mar 2020 09:12:10 |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1536 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2020 : 09:38:17
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Just imagine, you're a librarian. Books are you delight, your world, your love, and your joy.
Then, one day, some jerk sets fire to your library or defiles a priceless tome for a lark.
This sparks off your quest for revenge, and at last you manage to divine that the prankster was a cleric/rogue of Erevan Ilsere. This causes you to set out in a grand adventure, making bargains with countless beings across the Planes, until at last you come to the final act of this great play.
You murder Erevan Ilsere.
An assassin's guild hears their god's dying scream, driving many insane. A court of undead deep in a forest is exposed to their neighbors, who set off on a campaign of extermination. A Chosen feels his powers flee him at the most crucial moment, leaving him defenseless before the cabal of wizards he's trying to steal a priceless artifact from.
And as Erevan's golden blood trickles away, he lifts his cloudy eyes to you and asks "Why?"
And you say, "Like you'd actually pay a fine, book-burner." |
Edited by - LordofBones on 29 Mar 2020 09:40:05 |
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe
USA
958 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2020 : 11:49:33
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quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Just imagine, you're a librarian. Books are you delight, your world, your love, and your joy.
Then, one day, some jerk sets fire to your library or defiles a priceless tome for a lark.
This sparks off your quest for revenge, and at last you manage to divine that the prankster was a cleric/rogue of Erevan Ilsere. This causes you to set out in a grand adventure, making bargains with countless beings across the Planes, until at last you come to the final act of this great play.
You murder Erevan Ilsere.
An assassin's guild hears their god's dying scream, driving many insane. A court of undead deep in a forest is exposed to their neighbors, who set off on a campaign of extermination. A Chosen feels his powers flee him at the most crucial moment, leaving him defenseless before the cabal of wizards he's trying to steal a priceless artifact from.
And as Erevan's golden blood trickles away, he lifts his cloudy eyes to you and asks "Why?"
And you say, "Like you'd actually pay a fine, book-burner."
Does the cabal of wizards sell the Chosen (with levels in sacred fist IIRC) to slavers in Skullport? My plan was for Gruumsh to do the murdering, but an offended librarian? Nice. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2020 : 16:50:29
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| And with that, maybe we can wander back in the general direction of the topic, again? |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2020 : 01:31:49
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Does anyone know when books started to become the dominant paradigm for storing information in the human realms around the Sea of Fallen Stars?
That is, how old does a treasure trove need to be before there are now books, at least not ones written in human cultures, but instead codices or even just lead or clay tablets?
When did the switch from papyrus to paper occur in the Old Empires? |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2020 : 05:00:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
When did the switch from papyrus to paper occur in the Old Empires?
I don't think it ever did.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
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Topic |
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Books - Why are they dominant in the Realms?
