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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Mar 2020 : 20:03:04
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Good afternoon everyone,
Reading all of the many scrolls going on in this tome and others, had me taking stock of the significant reference to 'x' group doing 'y' things in 'z' nation/city-state/region. The amount of seemingly cross border actions taken is truly astounding. Whether it be done by official government agents, adventuring groups, etc., there is a lot of activity always going on across national boundaries. That got me thinking about how governments control such movement. The consequences of beings moving from one locale to another, where there are different laws, customs, religions, etc. is significant. It seems unbelievably silly to have people moving about on horse, etc., when powerful government officials would be utilizing wizards to have teleconferences with divination pools, gating from one secure compound to a neutral site to have negotiations in a neutral space, etc. It never really seems like that kind of stuff goes on. With the science/technology of magic, one would think that communication, almost like the internet, would be much more robust, i.e. instant, efficacious.
What do you all think keeps governmental communication and international diplomacy seemingly stifled, as I see no evidence that it is handled in a way that makes sense for the level of magic available in the Realms?
Best regards,
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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ElfBane
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2020 : 22:11:18
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| Magic is not cheap. It "appears" that these things are done by a snap-of-the-finger, but in D&D 'reality' these realllllly convenient communication spells cost a lot in terms of spell components. |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2020 : 22:15:13
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Learned Scribe ElfBane,
Sure, but we'd be looking at sovereign nations and their Treasury costing out these expenses and coming to international trade agreements with other nations to make these costs affordable. Analogy would be putting satellites into orbit, or the bridge that is currently under review to be built between Scotland and Ireland. The GDP/GNP (depending on nations manner of calculating economic output) 100% can easily afford such expenses as if they were pennies. We're talking about towns budgeting for such expenses. That's why the wealthiest nations such as Durpar, Halruaa, Corymyr, and Calimport would likely start this out as such expenses to them are a pittance. Probably not even a pittance.
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by ElfBane
Magic is not cheap. It "appears" that these things are done by a snap-of-the-finger, but in D&D 'reality' these realllllly convenient communication spells cost a lot in terms of spell components.
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2020 : 22:26:18
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CN indeed. In a lawful community, you need a CN influencer to keep the community from the salem witch trials, lol. In a Lawful evil society you need the CN to ensure you that pure evil is not the only way to get what you want. lol.
(Imagine a Tom Bombadil laugh there) |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2020 : 00:49:04
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Senior Scribe Copper Elven Vampire,
The Tom Bombadil laugh sealed the deal for me there. hahaha
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire
CN indeed. In a lawful community, you need a CN influencer to keep the community from the salem witch trials, lol. In a Lawful evil society you need the CN to ensure you that pure evil is not the only way to get what you want. lol.
(Imagine a Tom Bombadil laugh there)
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe
USA
958 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2020 : 21:59:19
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| How strongly would a transcontinental communication and transportation system tac the Weave? The Netherese mythallara of old evidently drained magical sustenance from the phaerimm. Look how the phaerimm drained Netheril's land. I suspect the same desertification would happen to all Faerun. That, and Mystra may resent sentients treating the Weave as a commercial tool, not as a wonder for its own sake. The other factor is spellcasters do not play nice with each other in general. |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2020 : 00:00:12
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Learned Scribe Delnyn,
Wow, great question! I hadn't thought of it like that, but I love the thought!
Perhaps it would be something along the lines of subspace communications in Star Trek, or perhaps, powerful compression of audio files?
How do you feel that the communications relates to your example of the Netherese and the Phaerimm? It sounds like a conflation of two disparate topics. No offense intended mind you.
Best regards,
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe
USA
958 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2020 : 00:35:22
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quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Learned Scribe Delnyn,
Wow, great question! I hadn't thought of it like that, but I love the thought!
Perhaps it would be something along the lines of subspace communications in Star Trek, or perhaps, powerful compression of audio files?
How do you feel that the communications relates to your example of the Netherese and the Phaerimm? It sounds like a conflation of two disparate topics. No offense intended mind you.
Best regards,
Master cpthero2,
No offense taken at all. The relation has to do with transcontinental communications (and transportation for that matter) "hogging" the Weave, much like the Netherese mythallars. By straining the Weave and pulling it toward certain zones and away from other zones, certain life forms that depend upon magic suffer in their daily life. As far as the phaerimms are concerned, they were defending themselves against what they considered Netherese starving them. Transcontinental magical systems - be they communication, transportation - sound much like a similar invitation for a hostile reprisal. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2020 : 03:07:24
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The Weave unravels and frays where magic draws heavily enough to strain it. Although it is also like a living thing which (eventually) heals itself. Or maybe like a forest or ocean in which life (eventually) grows or flows to fill empty spaces. Holes in the Weave are dead-magic zones. Tangles in the Weave are wild-magic zones.
But I liken Netheril's damage to the Weave being more like pollution. Their mythallars generated quasi-magic but also disrupted real magic - demihumans (especially elves) would feel unease and lose access to their intrisic magical abilities while near or under an active mythallar. Maybe mythallars (themselves real magic items more powerful than wishes) are analogous to boat propellers chopping and churning water with enough percussive force to drive whales mad from many miles away. Phaerimm are even more sensitive to magical perturbations than elves, and their species survival threatened by it, no wonder they responded with a weapon like Life Drain. |
[/Ayrik] |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2020 : 16:18:52
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Learned Scribe Delnyn,
I love that. That is so cool. That seriously puts mega thoughts into my head for a campaign. Even one that could be cool for time travel. What if a time mythal were created that could connect a less Weave used time to a more Weave used time, in an effort to get more magic? That just popped in my head. Maybe a bad idea. haha
See, I could see that transcontinental system definitely leading to many epic adventures. I literally mean epic too! :)
Best regards,
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2428 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2020 : 00:08:46
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Magic isn't a lazy answer to everything, it's an arms race. Especially in the Realms.
Teleportations can be blocked and redirected(!).
Scrying devices can be made to explode, and who knows, maybe intercepted.
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn
Transcontinental magical systems - be they communication, transportation - sound much like a similar invitation for a hostile reprisal.
There doesn't seem to be any difference, intercontinental or next town.
As to raw power, a hundred of scrying mirrors, or even teleport circles (Aurora again), used intermittently, are gnat's sneeze, compared to even a single magical power source slurping up enough of magic to power the spell holding half a mountain in air plus unspecified number of quasimagical devices (probably including the same hundred of scrying devices and a handful of cargo portals just in a single enclave, plus fire and water micro-gates in every well-off kitchen, security measures, decorative permanent illusions, and so on).
And they'd be distributed over half a continent to begin with.
Gates/Portals are used and "hoarded", but while they ostensibly function at-will they got a few "little" problems.
And IIRC there was something about Mystra's servants not allowing any group to control too many portals at the same time (not for long, that is)? |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe
USA
958 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2020 : 00:50:22
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Magic isn't a lazy answer to everything, it's an arms race. Especially in the Realms.
Teleportations can be blocked and redirected(!).
Scrying devices can be made to explode, and who knows, maybe intercepted.
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn
Transcontinental magical systems - be they communication, transportation - sound much like a similar invitation for a hostile reprisal.
There doesn't seem to be any difference, intercontinental or next town.
As to raw power, a hundred of scrying mirrors, or even teleport circles (Aurora again), used intermittently, are gnat's sneeze, compared to even a single magical power source slurping up enough of magic to power the spell holding half a mountain in air plus unspecified number of quasimagical devices (probably including the same hundred of scrying devices and a handful of cargo portals just in a single enclave, plus fire and water micro-gates in every well-off kitchen, security measures, decorative permanent illusions, and so on).
And they'd be distributed over half a continent to begin with.
Gates/Portals are used and "hoarded", but while they ostensibly function at-will they got a few "little" problems.
And IIRC there was something about Mystra's servants not allowing any group to control too many portals at the same time (not for long, that is)?
No problem agreeing with your points. And yes, you remembered correctly about Mystra's servants not being too fond of any one group controlling too many portals. I would add that any power group would presumably prevent any other power group from controlling too many portals. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2020 : 00:55:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
The Weave unravels and frays where magic draws heavily enough to strain it. Although it is also like a living thing which (eventually) heals itself. Or maybe like a forest or ocean in which life (eventually) grows or flows to fill empty spaces. Holes in the Weave are dead-magic zones. Tangles in the Weave are wild-magic zones.
But I liken Netheril's damage to the Weave being more like pollution. Their mythallars generated quasi-magic but also disrupted real magic - demihumans (especially elves) would feel unease and lose access to their intrisic magical abilities while near or under an active mythallar. Maybe mythallars (themselves real magic items more powerful than wishes) are analogous to boat propellers chopping and churning water with enough percussive force to drive whales mad from many miles away. Phaerimm are even more sensitive to magical perturbations than elves, and their species survival threatened by it, no wonder they responded with a weapon like Life Drain.
That is sweet, sweet topic there. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2020 : 21:52:49
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Great Reader TBeholder,
Great point on the arm's race. I was just thinking about that. You would think Thay would be all over trying to find a way to make that work already. Who know's though: perhaps all of that work that Szass Tam was doing within the lower layers of Thaymount at the Citadel is on that very thing?
Best regards,
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2020 : 21:54:52
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Senior Scribe Delnyn,
This really brings up a great point about spy-rings and international diplomacy (since that is part of the topic!): I wonder how extensive the spy rings are and if nations really try to hold other nations or powers that be to account for their actions? You'd think such a thing would be a huge issue and one that nations would want to disincentivize.
Best regards,
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Governmental Communication and Int'l Diplomacy
