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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Dec 2019 : 05:30:46
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On page 17 of the AD&D 1e Player's Handbook it says:
quote:
Orcs are fecund and create many cross-breeds, most of the offspring of such being typically orcish. However, some one-tenth of orc-human mongrels are sufficiently non-orcish to pass for human...
And...
On page 76 of the AD&D 1e Monster Manual under the sub-heading "Half-Orcs" it says:
quote:
...there are any number of unsavory mongrels with orcish blood, particularly orc-goblins, orc-hobgoblins, and orc-humans...so such sorts are basically orcs although they can sometimes (10%) pass themselves off as true creatures of their other stock...
So I got to thinking:
So a "half-orc" belonging to a human parent and an orc parent that is of the other 90% is JUST AN ORC.
That means that an Orc can have a Human parent.
To me this brought about the idea for a dreadful character:
An Orc that can claim Noble Title from a family in Cormyr; probably from the large Cormaeril family.
This is how it goes:
A young Cormaeril adventurer goes off doing what adventurers do. He joins a band of other lack-wit youngster nobles who think they are invincible and finds his way into the Thunder Peaks. There his group is slaughtered nearly to a man by the Orcs found therein, all save the one lucky fella who is Charmed by an Orcish Witch-Doctor of Luthic!
The hapless lad is then set upon by the female Witch-Doctor who believes fully in the "fertility" aspect of her goddess...and thus comes our bouncing baby orc-boy.
The lad never really gets to know his father...as his mother got hungry once upon a time when he was a wee lad and decided that the mouthy Cormaeril would better serve her now in the stew pot. She does keep his skull though, and gifts it to her son later on as a suitable present so that he knows "where he came from" and all that. She learned a great deal about the young noble before eating him, including the fact that he was a noble from Cormyr...and so the wee "other 90%" baby orc learns from his mother that he is a noble of Cormyr.
Now we come to Dragon Magazine #141 in which is the article "Hey, Wanna Be a Kobold?" about Humanoids as Player Characters in an AD&D campaign.
In it we learn that Orcs, thus our other 90%ers...
quote:
...may be fighters, shamans, magic-users, thieves, or assassins. Orcs may be multiclassed as witch doctors, fighter/assassins, or shaman/thieves.
So what would our "Noble" Orc grow up to be? He knows about the powerful Knights of Cormyr (many of his kin have died on their lances and blades after all) and he also knows about their War Wizards who have sent many other kin to meet the Orc Gods...but what would he strive to be...coming from the unique situation of being his tribe's Witch-Doctor's son?
I think he would grow up to be the worst sort of killer imaginable of course! He would want to be able to "show them" that he was better than them (with them being both the other Orcs AND the Humans of Cormyr). He would crave in his heart to "be the best" and so I figured he would want power first and foremost among all things. He isn't a REAL half-orc, so he can't be the things that half-orcs can be...so he becomes the thing that they can't be: a Witch-Doctor!
As a Witch-Doctor he may cast Shaman Spells AND Magic-User spells.
As a Witch-Doctor has:
quote:
...all the abilities and level limitations of shamans...
Which means they can wear armor and use weapons like a Shaman as well as cast magic-user spells.
Orcs can be up to level 6 in their "clerical" spell casting ability and level 4 in their "magic-user" casting ability with a maximum of 16 in both Intelligence and Wisdom. While this isn't a very high level; it can make for a very dangerous individual. To see how dangerous, read the article from Dragon #141.
I picture this fella, with the backing of his Mother, becoming a very dangerous individual among the Orcs of the Thunder Peaks...and he COULD be the reason that we see in Elminster's Ecologies on page 25 of the booklet about the Thunder Peaks...
quote:
There have been rumors circulating that a tribe of orcs is at work building a grand fortress within the Thunder Peaks, and that this fortress will serve as a launching point for an invasion of neighboring subterranean lairs of other races.
He is strong, highly intelligent, wise beyond his years, stout and very charismatic...a truly deadly combination among the orcs and a threat against surrounding lands as well.
I haven't worked him up yet; but it is in progress and I'll post him here when I'm done tomorrow.
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The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2019 : 05:32:47
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So I came up with a name for the fella, taking from Tolkien's Black Speech I came up with "Drudush" which roughly means Dread Sorcery or Dread Sorcerer.
Drudush, LE male orc Witch-Doctor
ARMOR CLASS: 2 (Bracers of Defense AC: 5 & Ring +3)
MOVE: 12"
HIT POINTS: 33
NO. OF ATTACKS: 1 or special (magic item, psionics or spell)
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 1-10+10, two-handed sword +3 (non-proficient, so no bonus to hit) or 1-4+9, dagger +2 (of throwing) or by spell
SPECIAL ATTACKS: spells and psionics
SPECIAL DEFENSES: Barbarian Abilities, spells and psionics
MAGIC RESISTANCE: nil
SIZE: Medium (6'9")
ALIGNMENT: Lawful Evil
LAIR: Thunder Peaks Mountains, Cormyr Side above the Hullack Forest
CLERIC/DRUID: 5th level Shaman (of Bane/Xvim)
FIGHTER: nil
MAGIC-USER/ILLUSIONIST: 5th level Magic-User
THIEF/ASSASSIN: nil
MONK/BARD: nil
PSIONIC ABILITY: 176 (A,E/All); Minor: Domination, Hypnosis & Precognition; Major: Energy Control & Telepathy
S:19(+3, +7) I:16 W:15 D:13 C:16 CH:14 (21 to orcs) CO:8 (12 to orcs)
Barbarian Abilities:
Hide in Natural Surroundings: 49% (31% in unfamiliar areas)
Surprise Others: 4 in 6 (3 in 6 in unfamiliar areas)
Self Surprised: 1 in 20 (1 in 10 in unfamiliar areas)
Leadership: +5 (his level) to Charisma in regards Orcs and Half-Orcs)
Also: Survival, First Aid, Outdoor Craft, Tracking
Shaman Abilities:
Sage Knowledge: Humanoids & Giantkin (History, Legends & Folklore, Law & Customs and Theology & Myth)
Can Use Clerical Magic Items
Spells:
1st: Cure Light Wounds, Detect Magic, Protection from Evil
2nd: Aid, Augury, Speak with Animals
3rd: Dispel Magic
Witch-Doctor Abilities:
Brew Alcohol
Brew Potions: Cure Blindness, Cure Disease, Cure Light Wounds, Resist Fear, Resist Fire
Can use Magic-User Items
Spells:
1st: Charm Person, Friends, Identify, Sleep
2nd: Invisibility, Web
3rd: Hold Person
Spellbook:
1st: Charm Person, Comprehend Languages, Find Familiar, Friends, Identify, Mending, Read Magic, Sleep, Write
2nd: Detect Invisibility, ESP, Fools Gold, Invisibility, Knock, Stinking Cloud, Web, Wizard Lock
3rd: Haste, Hold Person, Phantasmal Force, Protection from Normal Missiles, Suggestion
Magic Items:
Two-Handed Sword +3, Dagger +2 of Throwing, Bracers of Defense AC: 5, Ring of Protection +3, Wand of Fear (40 charges), Wand of Polymorphing (68 charges), Libram of Ineffable Damnation (previously used and now gone), Mirror of Mental Prowess (in Lair), Stone of Controlling Earth Elementals, Potions of: Extra Healing x2, Growth, Plant Control, Speed and one each of those he can brew (usually two of healing).
Minions/Henchmen
Mother Dearest, Witch of Luthic (Shaman/Magic-User 3/3)
Pair of Ogre Bodyguards (well trained via Domination)
Hill Giant Executioner (slave via liberal uses of Domination)
Half-Orc Assassin (4th level)
Orc Fighter (4th level)
Orc Thief (3rd level)
Half-Orc "consort" (Fighter/Thief 3/3)
Apprentice Witch-Doctor (Shaman/Magic-User 2/2)
Human Thralls x3 (all charmed, all female) F4, F3, F3
Orc Chiefs of the Thunder Peaks
1) 3 Hit Dice Chief (Son, Charmed)
2) 5th level Fighter (Charmed)
3) 3 Hit Dice Chief (Charmed)
About Drudush
Drudush is a manipulator and tyrant of the first order. He sees no problem with crushing any who oppose him; and few orcs are willing to oppose him if they know anything about him at all. He is slowly coming to dominate the orcs of the Thunder Peaks, and if not stopped may very well unite them; at least loosely under his control.
Through use of his Psionic abilities, he forces his will on those around him; and with use of violence where needed rids himself of those too resistant to his will. He uses his Telepathy to stay in contact with, and give orders to, those Chiefs he has forced to his will; often spying on them with his magical mirror.
He also uses his magic wand of polymorphing to change himself into any number of creatures (including Humans) so as to mingle with them; and used this wand to adventure for several years in the lands of humans as a Magic-User named Maltor. Maltor is at this very moment a member of the Cult of the Dragon within Sembia and has an apprentice wizard named Thulerra (LE hf W2) who is a current member of the adventuring band called "The Orc Slayers" (sponsored by the Cult of the Dragon, with "Maltor" as their master who keeps them informed and gives them orders via his Telepathy on what they should do and where they should go) who are a ruthless band of youths containing Thulerra, their leader, and a pair of Fighters (F2 & F1), an Assassin (level 3) and a Cleric of Bane/Xvim (level 2).
Drudush also has contacts among both the Red Wizards of Thay (who he sells slaves to) and the Zhentarim (who he arranges mercenary orcs to serve from the Thunder Peaks). In the guise of an assortment of other humanoids, he keeps contacts with goblins and hobgoblins as well.
The goals of Drudush are simple: he wishes to take control of all orcs within the Thunder Peaks. He has no aspirations beyond this except for gaining more magical items. He knows his power is limited due to his orc-blood; and he is seeking a way to permanently change his race to that of a human so that he may perhaps then be able to increase his magical powers. He suffers from the delusion that some day he will be able to claim the lands of Cormyr and enslave the humans there to his will; making himself a great King. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
Edited by - Dalor Darden on 04 Dec 2019 19:22:25 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2019 : 08:05:22
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1E presented half-orcs as vile, contemptible, malicious creatures. PC half-orcs were assumed to be from the "best" 10%... usually evil-aligned, often assassin class (or assassin multiclass), the sorts of ugly, brutish, unsavoury, sadistic, murderous people who invariably thrive in the darkest alleys of human cities. Almost as widely hated by everyone as the drow - even by each other.
I recall seversl Realms novels approaching half-orcs in different ways.
One half-orc character was everything a strong, pretty, intelligent, educated human woman of noble birth should be... except for her pig-snouted nose, an obvious mark of orcish heritage which made society shun, despise, and distrust her on sight... exposing her to a lifetime of hardship which eventually turned her into exactly the sort of treacherous, cruel, and grasping monster others expected her to be.
Another half-orc character was a dedicated paladin... who behaved like a typically perfect paladin paragon yet was never fully accepted by others... until after he selflessly sacrificed himself to save his comrades from a fate worse than death.
And a variety of generic half-orc thugs were often antagonists or adversaries sprinkled into confrontational scenes, more to emphasize the debased and beastly nature of their employers than to serve as character examples through themselves.
1E orcs were indeed a mongrel species - any sort of mixed orc, goblinoid, humanoid, or human blood - never any sort or elven or dwarven blood. 2E introduced mongrelmen which (I think) fit the 1E description a little better. Along with orogs who were more like "pure" orc-blooded strains - somewhat stronger, taller, prouder, more cunning, and more malign than their generic orc counterparts. Some half-orcs apparently live within orcish tribes, assuming their physical and mental characteristics are "orcish" enough to be accepted by (or prevail against) their own kind.
The artwork for orcs wasn't consistent in AD&D editions. Orcs were always large, mean, dark, scary. Sometimes with pig-like tusks, snouts, muzzles, and facial features - sometimes not. Sometimes more like dangerous, monstrous humans - sometimes as inhuman as possible.
So maybe the appearance of orcs is equally variable. Perhaps no two orcs are truly alike, it is only as a species that they're recognizeable. If so, then half-orcs would like be just as variable (in the eyes of humans). |
[/Ayrik] |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2019 : 08:33:55
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I agree that most half-orcs will be ordinary members of orcish society, although possibly with some slight human features.
However, as regards your specific example, bastards don't inherit in Cormyr or most other realms. A child born to a Cormaeril out of wedlock has no rights, title, wealth or noble position other than what the noble parent chooses to grant (with wealth and influence being within the parent's power, but noble titles not controlled by anyone other than the Crown). |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2019 : 14:46:16
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I agree that such offspring would not get any recognition from "his" noble family and would be locked or even killed if he would publicly claim the title.
However if used as villain who would conquer part of Cormyr claiming it is his right by blood might be a interesting story. If he would also offer to the crown that he would return such land if he was recognized as Cormyrean noble and given title of Purple Dragon knight...
My point of view of orcs is that they are not evil naturally they just live in harsher surroundings and have disadvantage in social situation. They are also stronger and as we all know if you want something and words are not enough it is easy to use force. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2019 : 15:53:59
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An orc wouldn't care about the rules of Cormyr; only that it feels it has a blood right to take what is "rightfully" his. We also have from the "Cyclopedia of the Realms" on page 46 under the heading "The Goblin Races" from Elminster's Notes:
quote:
...aping mankind in dress and title...governed by a King and Royal Court in a rough travesty of Cormyr.
So there is already example of Orcs imitating Cormyr...so now I have a "blood heir" of a Cormyte Noble who wants to found his own Kingdom.  |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2019 : 16:00:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley
I agree that such offspring would not get any recognition from "his" noble family and would be locked or even killed if he would publicly claim the title.
However if used as villain who would conquer part of Cormyr claiming it is his right by blood might be a interesting story. If he would also offer to the crown that he would return such land if he was recognized as Cormyrean noble and given title of Purple Dragon knight...
Sure, if the orc was raised by humans, on human notions like inheritance of land.
But orc land seems to be tribally held and individual ownership of land is not attested in any source about orcs of which I'm aware. Also, orc leadership doesn't seem to be directly inherited, at least not as a general rule, except in so far as the sons of chieftains might inherit some of their size, strength and ferocity, which would make them likelier than other orcs to rise to leadership positions. Orc chieftains are generally the sons of other powerful orcs, but not necessarily the eldest son of the previous chieftain. Indeed, that seems to be an anomaly.
In the absence of any source stating otherwise, I'd assume that when chiefs pass, the 'legal' method of selecting the next chief is that the shamans, witch doctors and matriarchs acclaim the 'strongest' contender for his replacement, who may or may not be related to him by blood. Of course, in many cases, when chiefs pass, they are slain by their most powerful rival (who may or may not be their blood relative), who proceeds to take over the tribe by force.
According to Elminster's Ecologies, orcs do have laws:
quote:
Orc social structure actually mimics human culture
fairly closely. Orcs marry, hold worship services for
their gods, have codified laws, and even teach their
young in a crude educational system. They desire to
prove, to others and to themselves, that they are a
sophisticated race. Perhaps the squalor of their goblin
cousins spurs this need to acquire (or refine, as the
orcs would have it) their own cultural identity.
Oftentimes, however, their true, bestial nature
comes forth. Marriage vows are rarely upheld among
orcs, the strong dominate and exploit the weak, and
orc children are taught the skills of murder, thievery,
and destruction long before any elevated cultural
lessons come their way.
With that in mind, I'd say that orcish law states that the strongest shall become chief and be acclaimed in front of the whole tribe and that the religious caste of the orcs, as well as the older women, tend to have the most influence when it comes to selecting leaders by acclamation.
Blood relationships to orcish hukrym ('bold tusks', i.e. champions and leaders) are probably important to many tribes, but so is personal power, tactical acumen, leadership abilities and record of victories. It seems that some northern mountain orc tribes have developed customs that chiefdom is inherited within certain families, e.g. the Oboulds of Many-Arrows, but this seems not to be prevalent in gray orc society, such as in fallen Vastar.
The orcs around Cormyr are probably mixed, to a degree, between mountain orc and gray orcs, so you could justify pretty much any system in an individual tribe there, but I would be very surprised if any orcish tribe had a concept of inheritance where someone without any power to seize and hold it would inherit land, power and authority just because of the fact that they share blood with someone.
For one thing, orc leaders probably father dozens to hundreds of bastards and only the most promising, born to well-connected mothers (who would usually be married to the chieftain in a religious ceremony), are likely to be considered as potential successors.
quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley
My point of view of orcs is that they are not evil naturally they just live in harsher surroundings and have disadvantage in social situation. They are also stronger and as we all know if you want something and words are not enough it is easy to use force.
Sure, in the way that Huns, Saxon raiders, Vikings or Mongol warriors are not 'evil' by nature, but that their culture and background sanctions brutal violence for personal gain and advancement in society is linked to success in robbery and murder.
I view orcs as 'genetically' more predisposed than humans to violent impulses, less able to empathize with others and less prone to altruism than humans. This means that the average orc is more likely to have a personality and value system like those humans who belong to violent cultures or subcultures and/or become violent offenders if they are raised in a society which does not value their abilities and inclinations.
But this correlation doesn't mean that orcs cannot be peaceful, empathetic or altruistic, merely that it is rarer than in human society. In any case, in the absence of strong societal pressure to the contrary, most humans are pretty ruthless to anyone outside their immediate tribal groupings. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Edited by - Icelander on 04 Dec 2019 16:07:09 |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2019 : 16:22:46
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If he was cunning enough he could understand the concept of his father title and could use it as a mockery to Cormyr - if you are so weak as to accept my offer it will only confirm my claim on your land as you are willing to give it anyway.
I agree that if he truly go for becoming nobility in Cormyr he would probably loose his position as chief in his tribe. It was not meant this way - that is why I said villain...
As to the nature of orcs (or any race) I use racial modifiers to see the trend in their culture - orcs are stronger and more witty but dumber and less social (greens are not even witty). This is a example of common orc. There are more talented orc individuals who lead their race but the race and it's culture is based on most of their numbers. With those traits they are prone to less sophisticated culture based on prowess and small groups - tribal community. There would be prevalence of divine casters over arcane (as they have to be at least 3 points above average to be able to cast 1st level spells) for greys with even more divine casters than humans.
Similarily sun elves have more arcane casters due to their bonus to int. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2019 : 17:03:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
I view orcs as 'genetically' more predisposed than humans to violent impulses, less able to empathize with others and less prone to altruism than humans. This means that the average orc is more likely to have a personality and value system like those humans who belong to violent cultures or subcultures and/or become violent offenders if they are raised in a society which does not value their abilities and inclinations.
But this correlation doesn't mean that orcs cannot be peaceful, empathetic or altruistic, merely that it is rarer than in human society. In any case, in the absence of strong societal pressure to the contrary, most humans are pretty ruthless to anyone outside their immediate tribal groupings.
My stance is that any race created by a single deity or a pantheon is predisposed to share the alignment of their creator(s), but they have the free will to choose otherwise. Their society may make this difficult, but the choice belongs to each individual.
So just as we can -- and have had -- good (or at least, non-evil) orcs, we could and have had evil elves.
This avoids the "all X's are this alignment!" shtick, but also explains why the majority of the race does follow that alignment.
In a fantasy world, the whole nature/nurture thing has factors we don't have in the real world. This is my attempt to work with those additional factors. |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2019 : 17:24:11
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If you include gods in this I would say each culture have some archetypes to look up to and in Realms those are the gods. It is quite universal that you should pick one archetype closest to your way and try to emulate it so you will end up in it's realm when you die. For orcs those are mainly orc gods and foremost between them is their leader Gruumsh as he is the best and so it most emulated. Some orcs may stumble upon other gods and find one more to his liking but most of their society knows only about their pantheon.
Elves commonly know about more of the gods but chose to venerate their own as they see themselves as better than humans and their gods. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2019 : 19:23:34
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| Drudush is up above now. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2427 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2019 : 14:31:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
On page 17 of the AD&D 1e Player's Handbook it says:
quote:
Orcs are fecund and create many cross-breeds, most of the offspring of such being typically orcish. However, some one-tenth of orc-human mongrels are sufficiently non-orcish to pass for human...
And...
On page 76 of the AD&D 1e Monster Manual under the sub-heading "Half-Orcs" it says:
quote:
...there are any number of unsavory mongrels with orcish blood, particularly orc-goblins, orc-hobgoblins, and orc-humans...so such sorts are basically orcs although they can sometimes (10%) pass themselves off as true creatures of their other stock...
So I got to thinking:
So a "half-orc" belonging to a human parent and an orc parent that is of the other 90% is JUST AN ORC.
Non sequitur.
quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley
Elves commonly know about more of the gods but chose to venerate their own as they see themselves as better than humans and their gods.
Indeed, it's clearly connected: the Seldarine are intrinsically linked with the Elven Ways, which is linked with their sense of superiority.
From this point of view, we can observe how it works in both directions.
Aerdrie Faenia is considered part of the Seldarine despite living away from them, since lots of the elves became her followers, because they think the Avariel are awesome.
And all the wood elven followers of Eilistraee, because they see the Drow as really cool (at least, once separated from the spider-loving, scary-stories-for-little-elves-incarnate niche), and so on. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2019 : 23:34:16
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
On page 17 of the AD&D 1e Player's Handbook it says:
quote:
Orcs are fecund and create many cross-breeds, most of the offspring of such being typically orcish. However, some one-tenth of orc-human mongrels are sufficiently non-orcish to pass for human...
And...
On page 76 of the AD&D 1e Monster Manual under the sub-heading "Half-Orcs" it says:
quote:
...there are any number of unsavory mongrels with orcish blood, particularly orc-goblins, orc-hobgoblins, and orc-humans...so such sorts are basically orcs although they can sometimes (10%) pass themselves off as true creatures of their other stock...
So I got to thinking:
So a "half-orc" belonging to a human parent and an orc parent that is of the other 90% is JUST AN ORC.
Non sequitur.
Care to elaborate on how it is non sequitur?
90% of "half-orcs" are not sufficiently non-orcish to pass for anything other than an orc. So they are simply called an Orc. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2427 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2019 : 15:51:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Care to elaborate on how it is non sequitur?
90% of "half-orcs" are not sufficiently non-orcish to pass for anything other than an orc.
No, to pass for a human.
How many of them can pass for a full orc, we don't know. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2019 : 16:20:01
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So again:
On page 17 of the AD&D 1e Player's Handbook it says:
quote:
Orcs are fecund and create many cross-breeds, most of the offspring of such being TYPICALLY orcish. However, some one-tenth of orc-human mongrels are sufficiently non-orcish to pass for human...
And...
On page 76 of the AD&D 1e Monster Manual under the sub-heading "Half-Orcs" it says:
quote:
...there are any number of unsavory mongrels with orcish blood, particularly orc-goblins, orc-hobgoblins, and orc-humans...SO SUCH SORTS ARE BASICALLY ORCS although they can sometimes (10%) pass themselves off as true creatures of their other stock...
Says "typically" orcish...meaning an orc...and "so such sorts are basically orcs"
Pretty much a simple matter that they are orcs.
Orcs are orcs...because they are a dominant trait in offspring apparently. Yes? |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2019 : 20:20:41
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Orcish conceptions of property are not based on human-like codified laws.
The strong take what they want from the weak. Possession of things (or land) is the same thing as ownership... until a stronger orc takes it for himself.
There are chieftains and shamans, along with their families/friends. But they continue to hold their positions (and their stuff) by successfully bullying lesser specimens. Challengers can always step forward but they don't do it idly because defeat costs loss of status, injury, or death (along with punitive brutality against their own families/friends).
I imagine that orcs see themselves as fiercer, stronger, and more cunning than humans. So they'd generally treat half-orcs as cowardly, weak, and soft.
I'm going off AD&D-era orcs. Lawful Evil. A race of bullies. Savage, brutal, ugly. Proper orcs!
Not the 3E-era "civilized" orcs. Nor the simplified 4E-era Chaotic Evil sorts. |
[/Ayrik] |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11827 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2019 : 23:23:55
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| I kind of miss when orcs looked like gamorrean guards. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2019 : 14:15:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Orcish conceptions of property are not based on human-like codified laws.
The strong take what they want from the weak. Possession of things (or land) is the same thing as ownership... until a stronger orc takes it for himself.
There are chieftains and shamans, along with their families/friends. But they continue to hold their positions (and their stuff) by successfully bullying lesser specimens. Challengers can always step forward but they don't do it idly because defeat costs loss of status, injury, or death (along with punitive brutality against their own families/friends).
I imagine that orcs see themselves as fiercer, stronger, and more cunning than humans. So they'd generally treat half-orcs as cowardly, weak, and soft.
I'm going off AD&D-era orcs. Lawful Evil. A race of bullies. Savage, brutal, ugly. Proper orcs!
Not the 3E-era "civilized" orcs. Nor the simplified 4E-era Chaotic Evil sorts.
Note that in AD&D 2e Realms sources, orcs are specifically noted as having codified laws. Those laws won't necessarily match any human kingdom exactly, but in a Lawful Evil orcish society, they will still be actual laws, not just the violent anarchy of the strong taking what they want. That's an archetypical Chaotic Evil society, not orcs as they are presented in Elminster's Ecologies. |
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The Other 90% of Half-Orcs
