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Originally posted by Storyteller Hero



Evidence in the canon literature supports the premise that the mortal forms of the Dead Three are avatars rather than the main bodies.

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Originally posted by Dalor Darden

It may support it as you say; but it is rather implicit that they are only Demi-Gods now. It does use the word Demi-God doesn’t it? Or does it not?

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Originally posted by Dalor Darden



Run your Realms as you see fit however...

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

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Originally posted by Storyteller Hero



Evidence in the canon literature supports the premise that the mortal forms of the Dead Three are avatars rather than the main bodies.

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Evidence in prior canon may support that... Except the current designers obviously feel no obligation to stick with prior canon. We can't always rely on that as a guide, any more, since the designers don't have any regard for it.

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Originally posted by LordofBones

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert


Evidence in prior canon may support that... Except the current designers obviously feel no obligation to stick with prior canon. We can't always rely on that as a guide, any more, since the designers don't have any regard for it.

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Yugoloths

Also, 5e confirms that someone in WOTC really hates hyenas.

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Originally posted by Gyor

Okay so Bane, Bhaal, Myrkul are in mortal form (relatively I doubt they grow old), but how much power they sacrificed to do that is unknown (aka no one knows what their CR is, but I'm assuming they are at least as powerful as other Quasi-Gods like Titans).

Also in the DMG the deity ranks are concidered to be Greater Deity, Deity, Quasi Deity (Demigods, Visages,and Titans qualify as Quasigods, so this puts Bane, Myrkul, and Bhaal in the same rough catagory as the Tarrassque, Krakens, Atropals, Astral Dreadnaughts, Empyreans, the Mulhorand Pantheon, Gilgeam, most likely other examples), but that is still stupidly powerful.

And we know from Ashes of the Tyrant that Demigods can still control their afterlife (Enlil and Gilgeam were both interested raising Zigguraxus from where ever afterlives go when they die).

And if we look at the power of Gilgeam in Erin's novels as way to assess Demigod powers and how they work in 5e, Bane, and to a lesser extend Bhaal and Myrkul still can power in proportion to their worshippers numbers, so Bane as a Demigod should still have an insane amount of raw power. The price being that he can be killed.

And its a safe bet that they made these Gods demigods for one reason only. BALDUR'S GATE 3. Larians Studios was credited as helping write Baldur's Gate: Descent into Avernus btw. Interesting to note that according to Larian Studios the only beings you can't kill in BG 3, are Gods and certain types of Undead.

And I'm assuming Bane choose this as part of a plan for even greater power. Perhaps the ritual that Szazz Tam tried that would have made him more powerful then even AO had it not failed and wrecked Thay instead. Or gaining control of the Mindflayers.

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Originally posted by Storyteller Hero

(snip) I would dare say that if the mortal forms are not avatars, then either the writers currently in charge of the canon are planning to bring something in out of left field or they didn't do their homework when writing about the Dead Three for 5th edition.

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Originally posted by Storyteller Hero

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Originally posted by Gyor

Okay so Bane, Bhaal, Myrkul are in mortal form (relatively I doubt they grow old), but how much power they sacrificed to do that is unknown (aka no one knows what their CR is, but I'm assuming they are at least as powerful as other Quasi-Gods like Titans).

Also in the DMG the deity ranks are concidered to be Greater Deity, Deity, Quasi Deity (Demigods, Visages,and Titans qualify as Quasigods, so this puts Bane, Myrkul, and Bhaal in the same rough catagory as the Tarrassque, Krakens, Atropals, Astral Dreadnaughts, Empyreans, the Mulhorand Pantheon, Gilgeam, most likely other examples), but that is still stupidly powerful.

And we know from Ashes of the Tyrant that Demigods can still control their afterlife (Enlil and Gilgeam were both interested raising Zigguraxus from where ever afterlives go when they die).

And if we look at the power of Gilgeam in Erin's novels as way to assess Demigod powers and how they work in 5e, Bane, and to a lesser extend Bhaal and Myrkul still can power in proportion to their worshippers numbers, so Bane as a Demigod should still have an insane amount of raw power. The price being that he can be killed.

And its a safe bet that they made these Gods demigods for one reason only. BALDUR'S GATE 3. Larians Studios was credited as helping write Baldur's Gate: Descent into Avernus btw. Interesting to note that according to Larian Studios the only beings you can't kill in BG 3, are Gods and certain types of Undead.

And I'm assuming Bane choose this as part of a plan for even greater power. Perhaps the ritual that Szazz Tam tried that would have made him more powerful then even AO had it not failed and wrecked Thay instead. Or gaining control of the Mindflayers.

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Bane the Greater God has armies that are capable of attacking multiple planes and has other gods serving him. He also holds dominion over an entire plane, and has access to treasures worth entire kingdoms.

Bane the mortal has a ragtag legion of fragile mortals capable of regional warfare on a single continent at most. He is also vulnerable to attacks from all sorts of enemies including many who are just as powerful as he is from both the Material Plane and other planes. He has had thousands of years to make many enemies among those in the tier of titans and krakens, especially as a god of tyranny. He is not strong enough to maintain the organization of gods that he held power over with just the power of a demigod, which on the cosmic scale is a weakling.

Even if Bane was after a power greater than that of Ao, it would have to be well within reach in a very short period of time otherwise it wouldn't be worth the risk and loss of making such a choice. He would also have to immediately have something like a divine artifact that protects him from other gods including Ao because Bane has learned firsthand what happens in a mortal body when not enough precautions are taken.

In terms of motivation, given that it was stated officially that the Dead Three made a choice towards their current situation despite knowing the potential consequences (Time of Troubles already taught them that much), I would dare say that if the mortal forms are not avatars, then either the writers currently in charge of the canon are planning to bring something in out of left field or they didn't do their homework when writing about the Dead Three for 5th edition.

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Originally posted by Mirtek

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Originally posted by Storyteller Hero

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Originally posted by Gyor

Okay so Bane, Bhaal, Myrkul are in mortal form (relatively I doubt they grow old), but how much power they sacrificed to do that is unknown (aka no one knows what their CR is, but I'm assuming they are at least as powerful as other Quasi-Gods like Titans).

Also in the DMG the deity ranks are concidered to be Greater Deity, Deity, Quasi Deity (Demigods, Visages,and Titans qualify as Quasigods, so this puts Bane, Myrkul, and Bhaal in the same rough catagory as the Tarrassque, Krakens, Atropals, Astral Dreadnaughts, Empyreans, the Mulhorand Pantheon, Gilgeam, most likely other examples), but that is still stupidly powerful.

And we know from Ashes of the Tyrant that Demigods can still control their afterlife (Enlil and Gilgeam were both interested raising Zigguraxus from where ever afterlives go when they die).

And if we look at the power of Gilgeam in Erin's novels as way to assess Demigod powers and how they work in 5e, Bane, and to a lesser extend Bhaal and Myrkul still can power in proportion to their worshippers numbers, so Bane as a Demigod should still have an insane amount of raw power. The price being that he can be killed.

And its a safe bet that they made these Gods demigods for one reason only. BALDUR'S GATE 3. Larians Studios was credited as helping write Baldur's Gate: Descent into Avernus btw. Interesting to note that according to Larian Studios the only beings you can't kill in BG 3, are Gods and certain types of Undead.

And I'm assuming Bane choose this as part of a plan for even greater power. Perhaps the ritual that Szazz Tam tried that would have made him more powerful then even AO had it not failed and wrecked Thay instead. Or gaining control of the Mindflayers.

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Bane the Greater God has armies that are capable of attacking multiple planes and has other gods serving him. He also holds dominion over an entire plane, and has access to treasures worth entire kingdoms.

Bane the mortal has a ragtag legion of fragile mortals capable of regional warfare on a single continent at most. He is also vulnerable to attacks from all sorts of enemies including many who are just as powerful as he is from both the Material Plane and other planes. He has had thousands of years to make many enemies among those in the tier of titans and krakens, especially as a god of tyranny. He is not strong enough to maintain the organization of gods that he held power over with just the power of a demigod, which on the cosmic scale is a weakling.

Even if Bane was after a power greater than that of Ao, it would have to be well within reach in a very short period of time otherwise it wouldn't be worth the risk and loss of making such a choice. He would also have to immediately have something like a divine artifact that protects him from other gods including Ao because Bane has learned firsthand what happens in a mortal body when not enough precautions are taken.

In terms of motivation, given that it was stated officially that the Dead Three made a choice towards their current situation despite knowing the potential consequences (Time of Troubles already taught them that much), I would dare say that if the mortal forms are not avatars, then either the writers currently in charge of the canon are planning to bring something in out of left field or they didn't do their homework when writing about the Dead Three for 5th edition.

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To quote Shawn Mendes: "everything means nothing if i can't have you"

Sure, Bane is the ultimate tyrant in his divine realm. But if he's the master of everything within reach, there's nothing left to conquer. Especially if Ao is suddenly enforcing a hard "nope, no more sending your planar armies out of your domain" policy.

So the gain the pleasure of dominating free-willed mortals as opposed to just the immortal yes-man that populate his realm, he had to bite the sour apple.

And if he's succefull enough, he can even starve upstarts like Cyric who cowardly chose the comfy safety of their divine thrones by cutting up their supply at the very source, while they have to watch in impotent rage.

Currently more powerful but unable to bring it to bear against him.

Sure there is an added risk, but if you're the greatest tyrant, you have to take some risk when setting out to conquer everything.

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Originally posted by LordofBones

Wait, Baine's realm is in Gehenna? Didn't he move the Black Bastion back to Acheron when he returned?

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Originally posted by Renin

As the topic asks; any mention of Fzoul in any 5th edition material yet? Last I paid attention, Bane had raised him to exarch (which was 4th ed wording of a demigod? Or near avatar power? ) I'm curious what that status would mean, or look like, in 5th.

In fact...has Zhentil Keep or the Zhentarim been mentioned at all?

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Originally posted by Storyteller Hero

It's not just some risk though, and Bane had the resources and awareness to go after far, far more beyond his divine realm, especially after subjugating Banehold (EDIT: Barrens of Doom and Despair, which was renamed Banehold after being conquered) and a number of other deities.

As Faerûn is just one continent on a single world while Bane as a greater deity has the option to spread out across multiple worlds and different planes with his resources, it's like trading a billion dollar company for a lottery ticket.

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