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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Oct 2019 : 05:37:34
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The Dread Court of The Midnight King
This Vampire conclave of The Midnight King began in 1374 DR. An infamous elven adventurer known as Dresdorian Olortynnal became a Vampire in 1372 DR fighting and spell-battling a coven of vampires. Dresdorian died in combat and was re-born as a vampire to Fraxel Frostfang, and rose above the ranks of the coven and destroyed his master vampire. Since that very day the gold elf has taken the name of Midnight King. He has ruled the coven of Midnight for well over a hundred years.
In his century of rule of the Kryptgarden Forest, he has built a small kingdom of elven undead in the ruins of ancient Illefarn. Summoning and calling-forth like-minded undead to his side. Rejecting all non-elves and being very racist in his disposition. Commanding Banshee Queens, Ghast Lords and a small army of elven undead from Illefarn, he rules his forest kingdom at night. The Masters of Midnight are his undead companions. Each one being a intricate elf lord of the Coven.
Although the Midnight King worships Erevan Ilerese and still calls spells from his divinity, Erevan Ilesere will only grant him spells as long as he only kills those of evil alignment, and he continues to play tricks and pranks on all those of Lawful alignment. He also cares only for the lost Kingdom of Illefarn and himself. From Kryptgarden Forest to the south and The Westwood. All of this was once Illefarn. Dresdorian was adamant that he protects his elven homeland even as a Vampire... even as a Vampire Lord, able to walk among the living.
One by one he collected his leaders. Intelligent, elven undead commanders. And a host of Crusaders and knights to command. A swarm of undead elves from ancient Illefarn. This Vampire court was bred to protect the heritage of ancient Aryvandaar. No human or beast is allowed passage through the Bogs or hills or forest of The Midnight King after sunset. Dresdorian would rather destroy himself than submit to non-elven rule.
It is said that when Dresdorian throws a Midnight Gambol that all creatures gather to witness true feral frivolity. Just simply evil in making. Nothing can stop his Gambol besides a Mischiefmaker interrupting. Only 10% of the Gambol gatherers die to the guilds needs. The weak die quick and the strong die slow. Even Elminster takes pause when coming into the Kryptgarden Forest. Dresdorian summons redcaps and all manner of evil fey, as well as the goodly races of faeries to join his Gambol.
The Midnight King also has a Legendary Werewolf Lord prowling the edges of the Kryptgarden. The only living member of the coven, Celidath Silverspear, a moon elf bladesinger, self-exiled from Evereska due to his cursed lycanthropy contracted during an adventure into the Moonwood a decade ago. Dresdorian Olortynnal had promised him a cure to his lycanthropy if he were to watch over the coven during the daylight hours and protect the ruins in the center of the forest.
Dresdorian "Witherfang" Olortynnal: CE Vampire Lord Gold elf male of Evereska. CR 40; Swashbuckler 12/ Combat Trickster 3/ Magical Trickster 3/ Uncanny Trickster 3/ Master of Masks 5/ Cleric 15 of Erevan Ilesere. Lord of the Kryptgarden Forest. Grandmaster of the Coven of Midnight. Guardian of the Twilight Grove of Illefarn. The Midnight King.
Shalestra Oakleaf: CE Banshee Queen Wild elf female of The High Forest. CR 28; Ranger 10/ Sorcerer 5/ Justice of Weald and Woe 10. Mistress of Melancholy. Queen of The Hunt in Kryptgarden Forest. Commander of the Coven of The Midnight King.
Mickanowh "The Whisper" Shadowstar: CE Vampire Lord Moon elf male of Evermeet. CR 26; Rogue 10/ Assassin 10/ Uncanny Trickster 3. Master assassin of the Coven of The Midnight King. Spymaster of The Sword Coast North.
Thelandria Darkmist: CE Death Knight Copper elf female of The Moonwood. CR 26; Duskblade 10/ Ranger 13. Champion of The Coven of The Midnight King. The Lady of The Mists.
Frathadell Woodwinter: CE Wight Lord Copper elf male of The High Forest. CR 25; Scout 13/ Wizard 10. Master of Bogs and marsh. Keeper of the Dread Stone of Vecna. A veteran of a hundred adventures.
Vysasheth Celendra: CE Ghoul Lord Gold elf female of Evermeet. CR 25; Wizard 18/ Archmage 5. Queen of Pain. Duchess of masochism. Commander of the Dead Leigeon.
Larthenial "The Dauntless" Duskflower: CE Vampire Lord Drow elf male of The Vordrorn Forest. CR 25; Fighter 5/ Rogue 5/ Sorcerer 2/ Arcane Trickster 10. Jester of The Midnight Court. Master of Bloodwine.
Grandmaster of dark pranks.
Shazzethelil "Bloodbard" Sullensong: CE Ghast Lord Star elf female of The Yuri Wood. CR 25; Bard 20/ Magical Trickster 3. Poet of Death. Master Bard of bloodletting. The Weeping lady of sorrow.
Farazagill Floshin: CE Lich Lord Sun elf male of The Misty Forest. CR 30; Spellthief 20/ Necromancer 6. Master of subterfuge and slayer of Death Slaadi.
Selenfelth Oaktree: CN Baelnorn Lich Copper elf male of Ardeep Forest. CR 30; Beguiler 8/ Shadow adept 10/ Magical Trickster 3/ Archmage 5. Master of the elven art, sage of the coven, Seeker of High Magic.
Taththorac "Sombresoul" Moonflower: CN Shade Moon elf male of Evermeet. CR 30; Rogue 20/ Epic Infiltrator 6. Lord of shadow, Prince of deception, Master of the dark. As the only living member of the coven, Taththorac excels in everything he sets his will to. As a lost and abandoned child of the Moonflower house, he set off to Faerun to seek his fortune and prominency. Being cast into the Plane of Shadow by a powerful Sharn wizard 200 years ago, he was imprisoned by the Shadovar and used as a slave and multi-planar emissary until his escape. Knowing that he is an ill-gotten child of the Moonflower house, and rejected by his family, he ultimately did what he could to survive in the Shadowfell. With no animosity towards his mother and queen, he survives alone by his wits and craft.
Celidath Silverspear: CN Werewolf Lord Moon elf male of Evereska. CR 37; Scout 20/ sorcerer 5/ Bladesinger 10. A renowned bladesinger of Evereska, Celidath contracted his lycanthropy during a adventure into the Moonwood when his party was ambushed by a pack of 100 Werebeasts in service to the god Malar. His six companions were all slain by Wereboars, Werebats and Werewolves. Celidath was the only surviving member of the elven party from Evereska.
Vallenenshall Mistwinter: CN Vampire Lord Wild elf male of Hellgate Keep. CR 40; Scout 5/ Sorcerer 5/ Vigilante 5/ Mage-Killer 10/ Swashbuckler 5/ Mystic Wanderer 10 of Erevan Ilesere. Portal master and brawler of the crossroads to Evermeet.
Saransethiil Youngclaw: CG Werewolf Lythari elf female of The Silverwood. CR 20; Scout 10/ Dervish 10. Champion of Karse, Hero of Myth Drannor in 1375, DR.
More coming soon...
CEV
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Edited by - Copper Elven Vampire on 28 Apr 2020 02:37:10
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Darsson Spellmaker
Seeker
56 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2019 : 08:32:35
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Very Halloween-themed fey court you have here. That said, there are a few plot holes I'm wondering about.
1) How can Erevan Ilsere, a lighthearted god of change and mischief, countenance granting divine spells to a lethal and deadly blood-drinking undead?
2) How are the majority of the leaders able to keep a Chaotic Neutral alignment when their undead natures demand that they drink the blood of the living, or eat the flesh of living humanoids or that of corpses?
3) Elven society abhors the undead and black necromancy. How is it that this coven is fine with the abominations they have become, and not bothered by their horrific, rotting appearances?
4) How are the death knight and the ghoul lord kept in check when they are explicitly evil? Especially considering that one is the strongest warrior of the group, while the other is the strongest spellcaster.
Very interesting concept, I must say.
Looking forward to hearing more about them. |
"Know, O mages, that there is learning, and there is wisdom, and they are very far from being the same thing."--Azuth the High One, Utterances from the Altar: Collected Verbal Manifestations of the Divine and Most Holy Lord of Spells (holy chapbook, assembled by anonymous priests of Azuth circa 1358 DR)
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1536 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2019 : 07:07:01
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It could just be Kanchelsis screwing with them. The god of vampires is also an Intermediate deity and shares the Chaos and Trickery domains with Erevan. It would sort of be like Lolth and that elven supremacist organization with the funny name.
Demihuman Deities explicitly notes that Erevan refuses to associate with evil or cruel trickster gods, I can't imagine him being pleased with perversion of his Gambols. |
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2019 : 16:48:03
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quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
It could just be Kanchelsis screwing with them. The god of vampires is also an Intermediate deity and shares the Chaos and Trickery domains with Erevan. It would sort of be like Lolth and that elven supremacist organization with the funny name.
Demihuman Deities explicitly notes that Erevan refuses to associate with evil or cruel trickster gods, I can't imagine him being pleased with perversion of his Gambols.
I agree, and have amended the details above. I didn't even think to add in the Deity of Vampires. That would be a good plot hook for the midnight king. I need some type of pseudo-arc that allows this Dark Gambol. Maybe the gambol only allows mostly unseelie and dark fey to prey upon. Those of CG or CN alignment that attend the gambol are safe due to a pact the midnight king has with Erevan. |
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2019 : 17:32:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Darsson Spellmaker
Very Halloween-themed fey court you have here. That said, there are a few plot holes I'm wondering about.
1) How can Erevan Ilsere, a lighthearted god of change and mischief, countenance granting divine spells to a lethal and deadly blood-drinking undead?
2) How are the majority of the leaders able to keep a Chaotic Neutral alignment when their undead natures demand that they drink the blood of the living, or eat the flesh of living humanoids or that of corpses?
3) Elven society abhors the undead and black necromancy. How is it that this coven is fine with the abominations they have become, and not bothered by their horrific, rotting appearances?
4) How are the death knight and the ghoul lord kept in check when they are explicitly evil? Especially considering that one is the strongest warrior of the group, while the other is the strongest spellcaster.
Very interesting concept, I must say.
Looking forward to hearing more about them.
I fixed all the above mentioned, but I want to answer #4. They are NOT kept in check at all. Dresdorian is the only member of the court that has a restriction on his kills. That's his personal pact with his god Erevan. The court is not devoted to Erevan. Only the cleric Dresdorian is as he is the only divine caster among his court. When Dresdorian was alive, he was CN, as were many of the other undead elves in his court. But now they are all very evil indeed.
Imagine a flighty and frivolous CE gold elf (sun elf) cleric that never ever wanted to be a Vampire, but once he became one, his new evil tendencies caused him to become the best and most superior vampire in existence. Extremely brutal, yet academic in his kills. Dresdorian is insanely racist towards non elves and very cunning and unpleasant in his dealings with them. A literal curmudgeon so to say. As a Vampire Lord he can walk among the living in daylight and blend in without a problem, except for a few subtle details that only a skilled person in matters undead would recognise. He is indeed special that way, as are all Vampire Lords.
Now the Ghoul Lords, Ghast Lords, Banshee Queens, Wight Lords and the Death Knight cannot walk among the living without utter, unspeakable, sheer terror exuding from their very presence.
Dresdorian also has a most ludicrous hate of any Lich he may encounter. The hate is absolutely uncontrollable. He will fiercely attack with pure terror and death, with blades, spells and sheer power against any Lich. |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1536 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2019 : 07:22:06
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So he's a murderously racist undead elven supremacist that's perverted a divine ritual of his purported god into an orgy of bloodshed.
I cannot possibly see Erevan being okay with this, limits or otherwise. Erevan, who routinely mingles with a non-elven pantheon. |
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe
USA
948 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2020 : 01:39:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire
Dresdorian also has a most ludicrous hate of any Lich he may encounter. The hate is absolutely uncontrollable. He will fiercely attack with pure terror and death, with blades, spells and sheer power against any Lich.
Presumably Dresdorian has the common sense to stay the Nine Hells away from the ruins of Orbedal...if he values his existence in the slightest. |
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2020 : 00:18:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn
quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire
Dresdorian also has a most ludicrous hate of any Lich he may encounter. The hate is absolutely uncontrollable. He will fiercely attack with pure terror and death, with blades, spells and sheer power against any Lich.
Presumably Dresdorian has the common sense to stay the Nine Hells away from the ruins of Orbedal...if he values his existence in the slightest.
Actually... in our most recent game, he owns those ruins. He is ultra powerful and so is his clan of intelligent undead lords. |
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2020 : 00:46:55
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quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
So he's a murderously racist undead elven supremacist that's perverted a divine ritual of his purported god into an orgy of bloodshed.
I cannot possibly see Erevan being okay with this, limits or otherwise. Erevan, who routinely mingles with a non-elven pantheon.
Yes. Correct. Erevan IS okay with this as it furthers his ultimate designs in Kryptgarden Forest. Do you forget that Erevan Ilesere is a CN deity? He obliges himself only at the cost of others. The ONLY time he finds his morals, is when the elven people are severely threatened.
This is cannon lore in all editions my friend. Please don't presume you know Erevan Ilesere better than myself.
Ummm... Why wouldn't Erevan accept an evil elf into his clergy? Even Erik Scott DiBie discussed this about Fox-At-Twilight.
LMAO... Yes... Erevan can have a evil elf worship him and grant him spells, as long as the elf in question supports and furthers his goals in the multiverse.
Do you even understand what CN means?? Do you?? Like, you surprise me with stupidity sometimes, considering you're so very smart.
Do I need to give you a basic understanding of what CN means? I truly think you look at Erevan Ilesere as a "good" god. He's Nothing of the sort.
Erevan Ilesere is as CN as a god can get. But I think you truly don't understand what CN means possibly.
You have said over and over and over that Erevan Ilesere can't have a evil follower, or do evil deeds, or think evil thoughts and act on them. WOWSERS!!! OMG, yes they can. Being CN allows you to do what you want without restrictions.
Erik Scott Dibie has said that Fox-At-Twilight is neither good nor bad. She is blessed by Erevan Ilesere, but hates the god for it. She is a criminal and a saint, considering who you ask.
Most Clerics of Erevan Ilesere do whatever they want regardless of structure... but if an elven community is in danger, they will go ape-shit defending said community.
Now if that community was fully human... The Cleric would pass it by without a mere thought, regardless of the atrocity, unless they got paid to defend it.
I mean... LOB... do you even understand what CN means? I shake my head as I wonder if you even understand the Psyche behind Erevan Ilesere. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2020 : 01:50:32
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Actually, canon lore does not back up everything you say.
Demihuman Deities explicitly states Erevan's worshippers are NG, CG, N, and CN. His clergy is CG or CN. There are no evil alignments listed in either place.
His dogma is to "Inspire laughter and happiness, giddy silliness, and welcome release from care so that the routine of day-to-day existence does not become worn so deep that it grinds all the joy from life. Celebrate the spontaneous, and practice random acts of helpfulness."
It also says he has rivals rivalries with Beshaba and Mask, "for their cruelty and greed offends the Trickster's light-hearted nature." And he hangs out with Brandobaris, Garl Glittergod, and Tymora.
None of that suggests he'd ignore atrocities committed against other races, or that he'd support any acts of evil, and it explicitly rules out evil worshippers.
It appears you do not know Erevan nearly as well as you believe, since this is all from his most detailed write-up. |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2020 : 01:56:14
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From the what it says in Demihuman Deities, it does not sound like he would associate with undead.
pg 108: Erevan has long-standing rivalries with other rogue powers, including Beshaba and Mask, for their cruelty and greed offends the Tricksters light-hearted nature. [Light-hearted does not sound like someone that would associate with an evil undead.]
pg 109: Dogma: Change and excitement are the spice of life. Live on the edge, unbound by the conventions of society in a spirit of constant self-reinvention. Puncture the self-righteousness, sanctimony, and pretension that pervades orderly society with mischievous pranks that both amuse and enlighten. Inspire laughter and happiness, giddy silliness, and welcome release from care so that the routine of day-to-day existence does not become worn so deep that it grinds all the joy from life. Celebrate the spontaneous, and practice random acts of helpfulness. [I suppose if the vampire was like Edward Cullen, that would work.]
Finally, for his entry, it has:
Worshipper's Alignment: NG, CG, N, CN
Now, having said that, maybe it is Graz'zt that is covertly involved with the granting of spells and is trying to cause a schism in Erevan's church to weaken him? |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2020 : 02:00:17
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quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
Now, having said that, maybe it is Graz'zt that is covertly involved with the granting of spells and is trying to cause a schism in Erevan's church to weaken him?
I like this idea... Is there a particular reason, though, that Graz'zt would have a beef with Erevan? (I'm weak on matters pertaining to fiends and celestials; they do not interest me) |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2020 : 02:12:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Actually, canon lore does not back up everything you say.
Demihuman Deities explicitly states Erevan's worshippers are NG, CG, N, and CN. His clergy is CG or CN. There are no evil alignments listed in either place.
His dogma is to "Inspire laughter and happiness, giddy silliness, and welcome release from care so that the routine of day-to-day existence does not become worn so deep that it grinds all the joy from life. Celebrate the spontaneous, and practice random acts of helpfulness."
It also says he has rivals rivalries with Beshaba and Mask, "for their cruelty and greed offends the Trickster's light-hearted nature." And he hangs out with Brandobaris, Garl Glittergod, and Tymora.
None of that suggests he'd ignore atrocities committed against other races, or that he'd support any acts of evil, and it explicitly rules out evil worshippers.
It appears you do not know Erevan nearly as well as you believe, since this is all from his most detailed write-up.
Once again... uggh... this is getting tiresome. If you are CN.... you can do bad things and still be good in your intentions. Erevis Cale is a great example of CN. You do good as YOU see fit. Maybe it's evil to some, but it's painfully good to you.
Yes Erevan is buddies with Brandobaris, Garl, Tymora, Baravar, Vergadain and a plethora of other deities of trickery. But he himself is CN and most of his clergy is also. Is one paragraph in a book all you need to know him? That is soooooooooooooooo black and white D&D I cannot help but cringe.
Why would Erik Scott Dibie conflict his main character with right or wrong if Erevan was such a swell guy? Why does Fox-At-Twilight hate Erevan Ilesere so much if he were nothing less than a fickle deity? Erevan is not portrayed as a great god, but as a flighty, coprecious god that does whatever he wants.
I once had a conversation with Erik Scott Dibie about Erevan Ilesere, and he told me that he sees no reason why a CN elf that veered towards evil wouldn't gain spells from Erevan as long as the elf was CN and supported his end goals.
I'm seriously questioning if you guys know what CN actually means. lol. |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1536 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2020 : 02:16:01
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| Kanchelsis actually seems to be the most likely culprit. He's every bit as powerful as Erevan, and as the god of vampirism, blood and debauchery, corrupting Erevan's clergy is the sort of thing he'd find hilarious. |
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2020 : 02:18:25
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quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
From the what it says in Demihuman Deities, it does not sound like he would associate with undead.
pg 108: Erevan has long-standing rivalries with other rogue powers, including Beshaba and Mask, for their cruelty and greed offends the Tricksters light-hearted nature. [Light-hearted does not sound like someone that would associate with an evil undead.]
pg 109: Dogma: Change and excitement are the spice of life. Live on the edge, unbound by the conventions of society in a spirit of constant self-reinvention. Puncture the self-righteousness, sanctimony, and pretension that pervades orderly society with mischievous pranks that both amuse and enlighten. Inspire laughter and happiness, giddy silliness, and welcome release from care so that the routine of day-to-day existence does not become worn so deep that it grinds all the joy from life. Celebrate the spontaneous, and practice random acts of helpfulness. [I suppose if the vampire was like Edward Cullen, that would work.]
Finally, for his entry, it has:
Worshipper's Alignment: NG, CG, N, CN
Now, having said that, maybe it is Graz'zt that is covertly involved with the granting of spells and is trying to cause a schism in Erevan's church to weaken him?
LMAO... when did I ever associate Erevan with Undead? Unless a Cleric became a Vampire. lol. Even then, If the Vampire cleric commited himself to the agenda of his trickster god, then why the fuss? As long as your alignment isn't EVIL then you're good to go. You can be CN and do terrible things. lol. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2020 : 02:24:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Actually, canon lore does not back up everything you say.
Demihuman Deities explicitly states Erevan's worshippers are NG, CG, N, and CN. His clergy is CG or CN. There are no evil alignments listed in either place.
His dogma is to "Inspire laughter and happiness, giddy silliness, and welcome release from care so that the routine of day-to-day existence does not become worn so deep that it grinds all the joy from life. Celebrate the spontaneous, and practice random acts of helpfulness."
It also says he has rivals rivalries with Beshaba and Mask, "for their cruelty and greed offends the Trickster's light-hearted nature." And he hangs out with Brandobaris, Garl Glittergod, and Tymora.
None of that suggests he'd ignore atrocities committed against other races, or that he'd support any acts of evil, and it explicitly rules out evil worshippers.
It appears you do not know Erevan nearly as well as you believe, since this is all from his most detailed write-up.
Once again... uggh... this is getting tiresome. If you are CN.... you can do bad things and still be good in your intentions. Erevis Cale is a great example of CN. You do good as YOU see fit. Maybe it's evil to some, but it's painfully good to you.
Yes Erevan is buddies with Brandobaris, Garl, Tymora, Baravar, Vergadain and a plethora of other deities of trickery. But he himself is CN and most of his clergy is also. Is one paragraph in a book all you need to know him? That is soooooooooooooooo black and white D&D I cannot help but cringe.
Why would Erik Scott Dibie conflict his main character with right or wrong if Erevan was such a swell guy? Why does Fox-At-Twilight hate Erevan Ilesere so much if he were nothing less than a fickle deity? Erevan is not portrayed as a great god, but as a flighty, coprecious god that does whatever he wants.
I once had a conversation with Erik Scott Dibie about Erevan Ilesere, and he told me that he sees no reason why a CN elf that veered towards evil wouldn't gain spells from Erevan as long as the elf was CN and supported his end goals.
I'm seriously questioning if you guys know what CN actually means. lol.
And that's not the same as supporting an evil worshipper, which is your assertion.
Why would Fox-At-Twilight hate Erevan? Gosh, maybe it could have something to do with something other than him being fickle -- like his unwanted attentions, or the unnecessary complications he adds to her life?
Cringe all you want at someone believing what's in a sourcebook, over someone who's arguing that the book is wrong. I'm looking at more than "one paragraph" and sticking with what's canon. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2020 : 02:31:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
Now, having said that, maybe it is Graz'zt that is covertly involved with the granting of spells and is trying to cause a schism in Erevan's church to weaken him?
I like this idea... Is there a particular reason, though, that Graz'zt would have a beef with Erevan? (I'm weak on matters pertaining to fiends and celestials; they do not interest me)
No, no specific reason beyond the fact the Graz'zt is one heck of a schemer. Maybe it was from a deal with Lolth. He helps her weaken one of Corellon's flunkies and she gives him an artifact he has been wanting. Or, it could even just be simple revenge because he did something that interfered with one of Graz'zt's long term plans. Graz'zt being involved would be something that no one would expect. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Edited by - TheIriaeban on 21 Apr 2020 02:33:08 |
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2020 : 02:43:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
Now, having said that, maybe it is Graz'zt that is covertly involved with the granting of spells and is trying to cause a schism in Erevan's church to weaken him?
I like this idea... Is there a particular reason, though, that Graz'zt would have a beef with Erevan? (I'm weak on matters pertaining to fiends and celestials; they do not interest me)
Yes!!! This is a grand idea. Much to explore here. Erevan has played Grazz't so many times you would think the Demon Prince a fiddle.
Fox-At-Twilight stole the Gauntlet of Coronal Ynloeth from demon worshippers, and Grazz't followers were hot on the trail.
Fox-At-Twilight is neither good, nor evil. Without a canon stat write-up, I would imagine her as a CN moon elf Rogue/ Swashbuckler/ Shadowdancer. She is a Chosen of Erevan Ilesere and can attest to the fact that you can do very terrible acts as a CN PC.
Erik further went on to say that he sees no reason why a Cleric of Erevan Ilesere couldn't be CN in alignment and do "evil" things in the judgement of others.
You ALL read Erevan Ilesere from archaic books published 3 decades ago. Yes he is fun loving. Yes he enjoys his revelries more than most gods can cope with. Yes he is all about the pleasure in trickery and chaos. Yes he is awfully annoying to any and all things lawful.
But he does accept followers and worshippers of CN alignment. The word "GOOD" doesn't exist in that revelation. Who says you can't be CN with evil tendencies? LMMFAO!!!
Just saying... You can be CN with an evil streak, yet fight for the GOOD of the elven people.
There is NOTHING in published canon that says clerics of Erevan are good people.
You people make me laugh. You really do. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2020 : 02:51:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire
But he does accept followers and worshippers of CN alignment. The word "GOOD" doesn't exist in that revelation. Who says you can't be CN with evil tendencies? LMMFAO!!!
Just saying... You can be CN with an evil streak, yet fight for the GOOD of the elven people.
There is NOTHING in published canon that says clerics of Erevan are good people.
You people make me laugh. You really do.
You're making me sigh with your continuous dodging the point and ignoring canon material.
You still have yet to address the fact that PER CANON, he does not have evil worshippers.
Published canon says his worshippers are NG, CG, N, and CN. That is LITERALLY a statement that some -- not all, but some -- of his worshippers are good people. And some of his clergy are CG, as well.
So laugh all you want -- you're the one saying canon material is incorrect and failing to back up your own statements. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1536 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2020 : 03:02:25
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| While there are many shades of Chaotic Evil - half orc Regongar in the Kingmaker pc game being the standout here - it can't really be denied that Erevan Ilesere tolerating a streak of sadism or cruelty in a CN cleric is a bit different from supporting Cackles von Babyeater and letting him claim to serve the will of the god. |
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2020 : 03:20:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire
But he does accept followers and worshippers of CN alignment. The word "GOOD" doesn't exist in that revelation. Who says you can't be CN with evil tendencies? LMMFAO!!!
Just saying... You can be CN with an evil streak, yet fight for the GOOD of the elven people.
There is NOTHING in published canon that says clerics of Erevan are good people.
You people make me laugh. You really do.
You're making me sigh with your continuous dodging the point and ignoring canon material.
You still have yet to address the fact that PER CANON, he does not have evil worshippers.
Published canon says his worshippers are NG, CG, N, and CN. That is LITERALLY a statement that some -- not all, but some -- of his worshippers are good people. And some of his clergy are CG, as well.
So laugh all you want -- you're the one saying canon material is incorrect and failing to back up your own statements.
If a Forgotten Realms author bluntly says that Clerics of Erevan can have less than good tendencies then I'll go with that over your 20 year old lore of the Trickster saying he's a wonderful chap that does only good in the world. lol. |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1536 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2020 : 03:21:14
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Actually, now that I think about it, the slow corruption of an Erevanite priest could be interesting. He wouldn't notice as his pranks get crueler, his appetites darker, as Kanchelsis offers the same domains the priest has from Erevan - Chaos and Trickery.
It's a slow burn, but the Folly of the Seldarine is a patient god, until one final moment, at the moment where the cleric's choice would have redeemed him in Erevan's eyes, the priest chooses differently.
Grinning, soaked in blood, the priest howls prayers to Erevan, not noticing as he slowly warps and changes, until the final moment where he looks upon the slumbering form of his newest conquest and takes that final step, that act of hedonism that damns his soul utterly.
At that moment, he realizes he's being watched by a tall half-elf nobleman, garbed in black and red, swathed in an imperious cloak with a lining so red it seems to drip blood.
"Welcome, my child. I've been expecting you."
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Edited by - LordofBones on 21 Apr 2020 03:21:57 |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2020 : 03:32:26
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| Less than good does not equal evil. For example, an old lady is waiting at a crosswalk. Good helps her across the street. Neutral ignores her and crosses the street. Evil trips her and laughs as he crosses the street. Less than good tendencies means that the person will not always help the old lady across the street but wouldn't think of tripping her. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2020 : 03:37:30
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quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Actually, now that I think about it, the slow corruption of an Erevanite priest could be interesting. He wouldn't notice as his pranks get crueler, his appetites darker, as Kanchelsis offers the same domains the priest has from Erevan - Chaos and Trickery.
It's a slow burn, but the Folly of the Seldarine is a patient god, until one final moment, at the moment where the cleric's choice would have redeemed him in Erevan's eyes, the priest chooses differently.
Grinning, soaked in blood, the priest howls prayers to Erevan, not noticing as he slowly warps and changes, until the final moment where he looks upon the slumbering form of his newest conquest and takes that final step, that act of hedonism that damns his soul utterly.
At that moment, he realizes he's being watched by a tall half-elf nobleman, garbed in black and red, swathed in an imperious cloak with a lining so red it seems to drip blood.
"Welcome, my child. I've been expecting you."
I like that. I take it that Kanchelsis is a post-2e deity? Does he appear in any of the novels? |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1536 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2020 : 03:47:59
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| Kanchelsis appeared in 2e's Monster Mythology as an intermediate deity of vampires, blood, debauchery and magic, born when the intermingled blood of the Seldarine was corrupted by a malevolent god and achieved sentience. In FC1, he's downgraded to a footnote as a demigod, but in Dragon #359, he and a number of Monster Mythology deities were officially converted to 3.5e, and he's an Intermediate god again. |
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2020 : 03:58:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Actually, canon lore does not back up everything you say.
Demihuman Deities explicitly states Erevan's worshippers are NG, CG, N, and CN. His clergy is CG or CN. There are no evil alignments listed in either place.
His dogma is to "Inspire laughter and happiness, giddy silliness, and welcome release from care so that the routine of day-to-day existence does not become worn so deep that it grinds all the joy from life. Celebrate the spontaneous, and practice random acts of helpfulness."
It also says he has rivals rivalries with Beshaba and Mask, "for their cruelty and greed offends the Trickster's light-hearted nature." And he hangs out with Brandobaris, Garl Glittergod, and Tymora.
None of that suggests he'd ignore atrocities committed against other races, or that he'd support any acts of evil, and it explicitly rules out evil worshippers.
It appears you do not know Erevan nearly as well as you believe, since this is all from his most detailed write-up.
Once again... uggh... this is getting tiresome. If you are CN.... you can do bad things and still be good in your intentions. Erevis Cale is a great example of CN. You do good as YOU see fit. Maybe it's evil to some, but it's painfully good to you.
Yes Erevan is buddies with Brandobaris, Garl, Tymora, Baravar, Vergadain and a plethora of other deities of trickery. But he himself is CN and most of his clergy is also. Is one paragraph in a book all you need to know him? That is soooooooooooooooo black and white D&D I cannot help but cringe.
Why would Erik Scott Dibie conflict his main character with right or wrong if Erevan was such a swell guy? Why does Fox-At-Twilight hate Erevan Ilesere so much if he were nothing less than a fickle deity? Erevan is not portrayed as a great god, but as a flighty, coprecious god that does whatever he wants.
I once had a conversation with Erik Scott Dibie about Erevan Ilesere, and he told me that he sees no reason why a CN elf that veered towards evil wouldn't gain spells from Erevan as long as the elf was CN and supported his end goals.
I'm seriously questioning if you guys know what CN actually means. lol.
And that's not the same as supporting an evil worshipper, which is your assertion.
Why would Fox-At-Twilight hate Erevan? Gosh, maybe it could have something to do with something other than him being fickle -- like his unwanted attentions, or the unnecessary complications he adds to her life?
Cringe all you want at someone believing what's in a sourcebook, over someone who's arguing that the book is wrong. I'm looking at more than "one paragraph" and sticking with what's canon.
Unwanted attention? lol. have you ever played D&D? lol. You do understand that if you're CN you can worship Erevan Ilesere and have nasty, un-goodly intentions, right? You can be a Mischiefmaker Omega and flip between doing something good and doing something considered bad and terrible. You understand this right? I don't have to spell it out for you right?
You sound so black and white.... like all priests of Erevan must laugh and dance and drink and prank 24/7. What about the priests that do that and then some? What about the priests that have hate? A CN character can go ANYWHERE!! I feel as if you are so very limited in how you see D&D. I mean... I'm quoting a D&D author and you still want to argue about Erevan being black and white from 20 years ago. lol. Simply foolish to be honest.
CN characters only do good if it benefits themselves. Hence CN clerics of Erevan Ilesere. DUH!! You can do terrible things and think terrible thoughts and commit terrible acts as a CN Priest of Erevan Ilesere, and the god will grant you all the spells you need to do so, as long as you champion the elven people when the need arises.
That is Canon. That is Lore. Really? you want to argue this with me?
Your "Canon" lore of Erevan is so old. Hey, cool. to each their own. You may as well bring up that the Temple of Elemental Evil is originally from Greyhawk. lol. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2020 : 04:09:08
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You've yet to make your case that Erevan would accept an evil worshipper.
And yes, I will argue this -- because 20 year old canon is still canon, and the conversation you keep citing does not contradict that canon.
Maybe, just maybe, if you want to convince someone, you could try by addressing the point they've repeatedly asked you to prove, and you could use canon material to do so. And if it's not asking too much, you could be less condescending. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2020 : 05:00:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
You've yet to make your case that Erevan would accept an evil worshipper.
And yes, I will argue this -- because 20 year old canon is still canon, and the conversation you keep citing does not contradict that canon.
Maybe, just maybe, if you want to convince someone, you could try by addressing the point they've repeatedly asked you to prove, and you could use canon material to do so. And if it's not asking too much, you could be less condescending.
I'm NOT going to grace this with an answer. I have already done so, many times over. I have Erik Scott Dibie as proof saying that he sees no reason why evil characters cannot worship Erevan Ilesere. Let's agree to disagree then. Although I know Erevan Ilesere better than you know your own mother, I will let go for a hot minute.
Wow... This is the only D&D board where a Moderator is actually a troll too. No worries... I've spread the word in my gaming community. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2020 : 05:06:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
You've yet to make your case that Erevan would accept an evil worshipper.
And yes, I will argue this -- because 20 year old canon is still canon, and the conversation you keep citing does not contradict that canon.
Maybe, just maybe, if you want to convince someone, you could try by addressing the point they've repeatedly asked you to prove, and you could use canon material to do so. And if it's not asking too much, you could be less condescending.
I'm NOT going to grace this with an answer. I have already done so, many times over. I have Erik Scott Dibie as proof saying that he sees no reason why evil characters cannot worship Erevan Ilesere. Let's agree to disagree then. Although I know Erevan Ilesere better than you know your own mother, I will let go for a hot minute.
Wow... This is the only D&D board where a Moderator is actually a troll too. No worries... I've spread the word in my gaming community.
Pray, tell, how is asking for canon proof being a troll? How is being on the receiving end of your insults and condescension being a troll?
And you have Erik Scott de Bie (at least spell it correctly!) saying "less than good" -- which as others have pointed out, is not the same as "actively evil."
You have said one truthful thing, though: I'm sure you do know Erevan better than I know my mother. I last saw her 30 years ago and she's been dead for several years.
So hey, while you're lying about me, go ahead and make sure you brag about bringing up my dead mother. I'm sure people will think you're awesome for that. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2020 : 05:35:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
You've yet to make your case that Erevan would accept an evil worshipper.
And yes, I will argue this -- because 20 year old canon is still canon, and the conversation you keep citing does not contradict that canon.
Maybe, just maybe, if you want to convince someone, you could try by addressing the point they've repeatedly asked you to prove, and you could use canon material to do so. And if it's not asking too much, you could be less condescending.
I'm NOT going to grace this with an answer. I have already done so, many times over. I have Erik Scott Dibie as proof saying that he sees no reason why evil characters cannot worship Erevan Ilesere. Let's agree to disagree then. Although I know Erevan Ilesere better than you know your own mother, I will let go for a hot minute.
Wow... This is the only D&D board where a Moderator is actually a troll too. No worries... I've spread the word in my gaming community.
Pray, tell, how is asking for canon proof being a troll? How is being on the receiving end of your insults and condescension being a troll?
And you have Erik Scott de Bie (at least spell it correctly!) saying "less than good" -- which as others have pointed out, is not the same as "actively evil."
You have said one truthful thing, though: I'm sure you do know Erevan better than I know my mother. I last saw her 30 years ago and she's been dead for several years.
So hey, while you're lying about me, go ahead and make sure you brag about bringing up my dead mother. I'm sure people will think you're awesome for that.
That's my point.. You troll away, and end it with an innocent disclaimer of ignorance to the many, many, many posts you've clucked me under. Insulting you? ReallY? You must be kidding me Wolly. lol.
And you have Erik Scott de Bie (at least spell it correctly!) saying "less than good" -- which as others have pointed out, is not the same as "actively evil."
Who the hell said I said that? lol. Less than good = evil? what?? Actively evil? Do you enjoy putting words in other folks mouths? I can see you're truly reaching here.
I gave you the obvious for the intellectual. Novel based lore with 20 to 30 year old lore combined. You choose to cry for help like I beat you up or something, and I'm only asking that I can post these things without trolls and moderators pushing the power button too many times on the little folk.
My Lore on Erevan Ilesere is exemplary. Apparently, yours is lacking. But in your defense, you think I'm crazy, but I'm not. Have fun with that. I'm NEVER going to grace you with a reply ever again Wolly. You're just really not worth it. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2020 : 11:05:53
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Again, asking you to prove your statements is not being a troll. If you think that it is, you must be new to the internet.
And you're the one siting the "less is good" as proof that Erevan would grant spells to an evil follower, when the canon clearly states otherwise. Your lore is not exemplary when it contradicts what's published. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
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The Dread Court of The Midnight King
