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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Sep 2019 : 01:20:14
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How do major events in Zakhara line up with Realms history? I am assuming Zakhara was a part of the Merrouroboros in the earliest days, but did it really just start to gain an identity of its own just after the first Sundering? When did genies, Fate and all the other unique concepts of these southern lands really become so different?
Is there a fan made, GHotR approved timeline anywhere?
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11830 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2019 : 02:17:08
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| You know, one of the things we've pondered in the past is whether there have been multiple transfers between Abeir and Toril, and the "elementally focused" lands of fate would make a lot of sense as a place from Abeir that came to Toril, but was then later inhabited by colonists from Toril moving into the area. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2019 : 02:19:39
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Al Quadim was an unfortunate "bolt on" that should never have been added to the Realms. Given the existence of Calimshan, Durpar and other lands of that region of the Utter East, it wasn't required.
I do recall that somewhere on the Net there used to be a timeline of all of the campaign settings meshed into one - "Temporal Chronology" was part of its name, or something like that. Someone will be along to fill you in on the details.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2019 : 02:30:44
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Al Quadim was an unfortunate "bolt on" that should never have been added to the Realms. Given the existence of Calimshan, Durpar and other lands of that region of the Utter East, it wasn't required.
I do recall that somewhere on the Net there used to be a timeline of all of the campaign settings meshed into one - "Temporal Chronology" was part of its name, or something like that. Someone will be along to fill you in on the details.
-- George Krashos
I agree, that seems to have been done somewhat often and now the same mistakes are being made with material that was based in other worlds like Oerth or even Mystara. "Bolting" really wreaks havoc with consistent timelines.
But you work with what you got - I'd love to understand how Zakhara could fit into the history books and I'm excited that somewhere out there someone might have published the metastory. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2019 : 03:23:27
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Al Quadim was an unfortunate "bolt on" that should never have been added to the Realms. Given the existence of Calimshan, Durpar and other lands of that region of the Utter East, it wasn't required.
I do recall that somewhere on the Net there used to be a timeline of all of the campaign settings meshed into one - "Temporal Chronology" was part of its name, or something like that. Someone will be along to fill you in on the details.
-- George Krashos
It was called A Temporal Chronology of the Primes, and it appears that it is no longer around.
It was compiled by some dude whose initials were BRJ. I wonder if he ever did anything else...?  |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2019 : 13:45:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Al Quadim was an unfortunate "bolt on" that should never have been added to the Realms. Given the existence of Calimshan, Durpar and other lands of that region of the Utter East, it wasn't required.
I do recall that somewhere on the Net there used to be a timeline of all of the campaign settings meshed into one - "Temporal Chronology" was part of its name, or something like that. Someone will be along to fill you in on the details.
-- George Krashos
It was called A Temporal Chronology of the Primes, and it appears that it is no longer around.
It was compiled by some dude whose initials were BRJ. I wonder if he ever did anything else...?
Is my soul too small a price for a colossal GHotR update :-p |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2019 : 23:01:40
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I wonder just how popular a colossal GHotR update would be. Everyone is into adventures and more crunch seemingly these days. Pure lore appeals to only a small subset of fans.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2019 : 23:25:12
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I wonder just how popular a colossal GHotR update would be. Everyone is into adventures and more crunch seemingly these days. Pure lore appeals to only a small subset of fans.
-- George Krashos
Is that impression from what is being produced on DmsGuild, or other observations? I'm not disagreeing, I am only curious because it's kind of upsetting if true. Toril is a wonderful world while living and breathing, another blood mage hunter devil killer ranger archetype is just so...ughhhhhhhhh. |
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Edited by - Seethyr on 17 Sep 2019 23:25:36 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2019 : 02:36:44
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I, personally, think there is more demand for pure lore than WotC realizes -- but, as with so much else, they're not interested in taking any chances at all, and will only go for stuff with a broader appeal.
And as much as I hate this state of affairs, I can understand and to a certain extent condone their logic: it's good business sense. It's not good business sense to leave money on the table, but it is good business sense to go where you know the money is.
All that said, I have absolutely nothing to back this up, aside from the fact that for 20ish years, there was a proven demand for lore. |
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Storyteller Hero
Learned Scribe
USA
329 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2019 : 05:50:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I, personally, think there is more demand for pure lore than WotC realizes -- but, as with so much else, they're not interested in taking any chances at all, and will only go for stuff with a broader appeal.
And as much as I hate this state of affairs, I can understand and to a certain extent condone their logic: it's good business sense. It's not good business sense to leave money on the table, but it is good business sense to go where you know the money is.
All that said, I have absolutely nothing to back this up, aside from the fact that for 20ish years, there was a proven demand for lore.
Sales figures for lore-heavy Community Creator projects on DMsGuild could be used as a source of analysis for market demand.
I'm planning two big FR-based lore-heavy books myself (at least one of them will be done by year's end or I'll die trying), and I vaguely remember somebody was working on an Al-Qadim book, but that might have fallen into development Abyss for all I know.
The FR novel authors have also expressed interest in DMsGuild, though the real litmus test may be in seeing how well lesser known writers do with their releases on the market site.
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Green Giant
Seeker
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2019 : 18:07:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It was called A Temporal Chronology of the Primes, and it appears that it is no longer around.
It was compiled by some dude whose initials were BRJ. I wonder if he ever did anything else...?
I checked my drive and apparently, I made a copy of the 6th edition of the Chronology. Just a simple copy and paste to an old word document.
There doesn't seem to be any mentions of Zakhara until the modern age. And that's only in regards to its discovery and establishment of trade routes.
Spelljammer.org has a Spelljammer Timeline with one mention of Zakhara.
4858
[FR/AQ] *Grand Caliph Anwar ascends the throne and starts sponsoring the exploration of faraway lands, even those beyond Toril (spelljamming). (1176 DR)
{City of Delights: Gem of Zakhara, p14} |
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Edited by - Green Giant on 22 Sep 2019 18:17:46 |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1625 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2019 : 18:56:21
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I honestly believe we will be getting somekind of update to either or both Zakhara and Kara Tur, because WotC has hired cultural experts/consultants for a product or products in 2020.
This is likely in response to accusations that none European/white inspired cultures were not as fleshed out as their "white" counterparts, with Chult in Tomb of Annilihation being used as an example of not fleshed out culturally enough. |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2019 : 20:02:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
I honestly believe we will be getting somekind of update to either or both Zakhara and Kara Tur, because WotC has hired cultural experts/consultants for a product or products in 2020.
This is likely in response to accusations that none European/white inspired cultures were not as fleshed out as their "white" counterparts, with Chult in Tomb of Annilihation being used as an example of not fleshed out culturally enough.
This is exciting news that I didn’t know about. I mean, not the accusation stuff, just the fact that some of my beloved subsettings might get some love. |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2428 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2019 : 21:34:15
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Al Quadim was an unfortunate "bolt on" that should never have been added to the Realms. Given the existence of Calimshan, Durpar and other lands of that region of the Utter East, it wasn't required.
Why it wasn't required "given the existence of"?
Just wasn't required. Why would it be required?
IMO, it's not that specifically Zakhara does not fit for some reason.
It's that the way these late additions are "bolted on" simply doesn't make sense. There's no point to glue anything to an existing setting in the first place if they don't really interact, and mostly they don't. So the only effect is that things added "from outside" make geography more and more bizarre.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I, personally, think there is more demand for pure lore than WotC realizes -- but, as with so much else, they're not interested in taking any chances at all, and will only go for stuff with a broader appeal.
And as much as I hate this state of affairs, I can understand and to a certain extent condone their logic: it's good business sense. It's not good business sense to leave money on the table, but it is good business sense to go where you know the money is.
How is this applicable?
- You say it yourself: there's demand, which they ignore.
- ...while they asked for what, "hurr, more randomly generated stat blocks monsters"?
- Dumping all these extra sub-settings into someone's backyard predictably dooms said sub-settings to rust in said backyard (Red Steel was the only exception AFAIK):
1. Making them fit takes developers from both sides, and is more work than it's worth.
2. Brand piggybacking sham is self-defeating (Red Steel was not an exception here, since it had its own logo): most fans who look for a logo know what they want, and usually that's more of what already was in there. |
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And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
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